Smc Pump Flow Test

[salvageV6]

Did the flow test I wuz supposed to do 2 weeks ago.

M10 .036" nozzle size used on a 18" hose, pre-primed with alky.

Pump was full on direct power to the battery with car running, voltage was 14.25 volts for the test at the RCA jacks into the bottle.

Test was for 30 seconds and it flowed 10.5 oz. denatured alky. with two capfuls of Klotz lube in a full tank.

Hope that helps somone since I forgot why we were doing this test.

Brand new pump and square bottle as well since my round bottle with the pump just died again.

Next test might be with a shureflo pump.

M15 nozzle measures at .045" using gauge pins.

 

[Razor]

Well here is a question for you, does the SMC kit put out 14 volts to your pump?

If not..the test you performed may not have too much meaning

You dont want to perform the same test using the shureflow will full pressure out.

 

[salvageV6]

Why not does that pump need a return system?

I think the SMC kit puts battery voltage out at full pump speed, easy to test tomorrow morning. Might be .5volt loss in the wires I dunno.

Steve Hill wanted to use battery voltage for the test that much I remember.

 

[salvageV6]

Just saw on Notherns site that the Shurflo isn't made for flammable liquids.

Hope that's just the lawyers talkin'.

 

[Razor]

More than that for voltage drop..you'll see its becuase of the pwm circuit used to drive the pump.

The shureflow pump has certain quirks, first its really designed to run on a big nozzle like a pressure washer, once you put a little nozzle on it, it constantly bounces off the preset built in pressure regulator mounted on the pumps top. So if you hook 12 volts to the shureflow what will happen is it comes on and off and on..etc.. so to fix this either increase the pressure output or decrease the voltage to the pump. Now if you crank down the screw, the pressure output will go to the moon..I pegged my 100 PSI fuel pressure guage(pegged at 135+) at 8 volts..so 14 will make a boat load of pressure. In my opinion too much..100-150 PSI should be sufficient or you really need bigger nozzles.

Yep its there lawyers talkin, acually the pump says can be used for insecticides...

I made a progressive alky controller that had to be mapped out for the shureflow pump. thats how I know bout the on/off/on/off
deal. I just cranked down the pressure and control the voltage the pump sees..along with current. At full boogie the shureflow will run well over 10 amps..again its my own belief to keep it running at 7-8 amps tops for longetivity purposes. The higher the pessure, the more current it draws.

The SMC pump is small. Not that its a bad thing cuase for 90 percent of the cars that small pump will more than suffice. It doesnt take a lot of alky to get the job done... Good to see someone else experimenting.

 

[salvageV6]

At 14.18 battery voltage I got 12.8 at the pump with the control maxed.

Prolly a bit lost in the circuitry and long wires to the pump.

Prolly an ounce at most but I guess I could do a retest when I get some more time and it ain't raining.

100psi. is good for me with the smc style nozzles.

So how do you do the bypass trick?

Not sure if insecticides are flammable or not but I know alky. is.

 

[Red Regal T]

IT'S THE KLOTZ THAT'LL BURN YA.

 

[DMan]

Originally posted by salvageV6
Did the flow test I wuz supposed to do 2 weeks ago.

Test was for 30 seconds and it flowed 10.5 oz. denatured alky. with two capfuls of Klotz lube in a full tank.

Hope that helps somone since I forgot why we were doing this test.

I think it was me who asked for that! Thank you very much. Now I can compare. Obviously its based on what nozzles you are running, but in my current nozzle configuration, I'm pushing 3 times that much flow with my Shurflo.

 

[salvageV6]

DMAN on my car you have to add the second stage M15 flow to the quantity and that kicks in at 20psi. boost.

I could do all kinds of flow tests but they are kinda moot depending on combo. used and all.

Ordered a shurflo from nothern today, hope it works out with a spare SMC bottle I have.

 

[DMan]

Originally posted by salvageV6
DMAN on my car you have to add the second stage M15 flow to the quantity and that kicks in at 20psi. boost.

I could do all kinds of flow tests but they are kinda moot depending on combo. used and all.

Ordered a shurflo from nothern today, hope it works out with a spare SMC bottle I have.

I can't seem to find the flowrate of the M15 nozzle in your post. Did you test the M10 and M15 together?

 

[yellow95]

Razor- Where is the adjustment screw on the shurflo? Mine is pre-set at 60 lbs, but I would love to up it to about 80 lbs.

Gary

 

[salvageV6]

Damm only two stars on this thread for real world accurate results.

Hmmm, FREE results to boot.

More testing done today.

M10 nozzle SMC CONTROLLER voltage used to run the pump: Flows 9 oz. for 30 second test we lost 1.5 oz. with almost real world system use.

M10 and M15 nozzles spraying together, with a 1/8" NPT brass right angle block used to couple them, flowed 22 oz. for 30 second test with the SMC CONTROLLER voltage at the pump.

I think I may be able to tune with two M15's in there.

Car was running of course for all tests. Battery voltage approx. 14.1 or so.

Edited for clarity, I didn't change the numbers.

 

[Turbo__Tim]

Razor is the Pulse Width Wodulation a way of limiting (or increasing)voltage by 'clipping' off the top of the sine wave in order to control voltage?

If so would it take an RMS meter to get a true voltage reading?

Is this more like square wave stuff, or am I way off track?

Go ahead, I can take it, give it to me straight. I'm not sensitive like a few others on this board..

J/K

 

[salvageV6]

Tim I think you are talking about a chopper circuit usually diode related. PWM is pulse width modulation and deals with duty cycles of waveforms usually.

 

[Razor]

The word is duty cycle. The amount of "on time" a waveform has. In other words not a sine wave but a square wave. The amount of time the wave is on the positive is the amount of drive the pump see's. That is why its called a pulse width modulator..the on time is the positive going width.

So the controller emits a frequency to the pump, this frequency's duty cycle controls the on time the pump sees...and it happens so fast..its seemless. Its like if you connect disconnect power to the pump..if you hold power attached to the pump longer than you hold power off,the pump runs..the longer you hold power on it, the higher speed it puts out..

This is a laymans translation..so how do you do this..how much frequency..at what amplitude..this is why i've been working on this for months .. its majic

It is ready..should be for sale 3-4 weeks...

 

[Turbo__Tim]

Originally posted by salvageV6
Tim I think you are talking about a chopper circuit usually diode related. PWM is pulse width modulation and deals with duty cycles of waveforms usually.

This is getting a bit off topic... but as you know by using the RMS of a sine wave the equipment that runs off it will run cooler, and more efficiently. In cable this is accomplished with the use of an electrolytic capacitor that discharges as .707 is reached creating a flat top to the sine wave. Another charistic of this is the almost vertical sides of the wave. (square wave)

Due to the rapid 'rise time' of this wave, an RMS meter (a faster reference clock) is needed to accurately measure voltage. A 10 percent error (lower) reading will result if using a non-RMS meter.

Razor - I'm glad you and your 'magic' are on our side.

 

[salvageV6]

Back from the dead for those DIY folks.

Shurflow Northern pump at 13 volts for 30 seconds through an SMC M10 nozzle yielded 14 oz. volume.

3/8" pickup hose used. -3AN SMC hose used for the nozzle on the outlet side off 1/4 NPT fittings and a 3/8" NPT to 1/4" NPT adapter out of the pump.

Flowed 12 oz. with a 1/2 ohm power resistor in line to deliver a tad over 9 volts to the pump with same 13 volt battery power.

2 ohms in line gave about 5 volts to the pump and 8 oz. delivery.

All tests for 30 seconds.

Pressure switch bypassed since it broke the first day I tried the thing.

Prolly can run an M10 with full pump voltage easy enough and then a second M15 stage.

Dial some fuel back with the maxeffort and add a third stage or methanol to increase available boost for better performance using the shurflow.

At least that's the plan.

 

[AsphaltAnihil8r]

Good testing ...
There ,,now you have 3 stars

 

[Razor]

You got a 50 percent increase in flow over the SMC pump using the M10 nozzle... pretty spectacular to watch that nozzle buzzzz

Too bad you didnt read pressure and pump current draw on it.

Want a bath..twin M15's...

 

[salvageV6]

Pressure buried the 150 gauge so no biggy.

Pump didn't bog down for some reason this time so I'll run it that way WOT.

Current draw can be tested anytime but if not using resistors, who cares? Prolly use some 10 gauge wire and be done with it.

Now to find some methanol cheap and wait for my fuel cell to arrive.