Stage 2 offcenter price

jpwalt1987

jpwalt1987

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2003
I am contemplating going to a Stage 2 block in the near future to replace my current 109 engine build. I am wanting to just swap everything over as far as rotating assembly and heads etc. Really just want a block that wont flex and move around as much as a 109. It would have to be a 3.8 offcenter to do that. What are the going prices for a block thats not beat to hell? What casting number would I be looking for? I am making about 700 hp now and I am having to freshen the 109 after 3 years of butt whippings. Advice?
 
There are 4.1 off centers also. You would benefit more from the bore size.
 
I was told today that the 3.8 stage 2s sometimes crack between the freeze plugs and to look for a 4.1.
I am open to that idea as I know the bigger bore size would help alot.
 
it's not all and only 3.8's, but it's usually the earlier blocks and not the later ones.

off center is definitely the easier of the two options, but you still have to do something for an oil pickup tube and oil pan at a minimum. I've seen blocks needing work or repair go for a few hundred dollars and other perfect virgin blocks go for $3000.

Are you really making 700hp?
 
I personally have seen more 4.1 than 3.8. My 4.1 off center was virgin when I purchased it. The company that originally had ordered it didn't know that there were 2 different styles. They kept the off center but purchased an on center. The last 4.1 that I remember being sold was around $2800.
 
Eticket said:
Are you really making 700hp?
Click to expand...


Based on the pass I made at the track of 130mph @3700 lbs back in June in horrible air I figure that was about 625-650 hp. The good air moved in this fall, I got my tune dialed in a bit more along with a convertor that is coupling the power and went up about 3 psi in boost to right at 29-30. The fuel consumption(injector duty cycle%) plus the alky injection show it to be right at 700hp. I could be wrong but I dont think I am too far off.
 
Find a 4.1 liter Off center block if you can. I'm not a fan of 3.8 liter blocks myself although Kip, Rob and many others have had good results. If you buy a 4.1 you can have the strength of a Stage II motor and some added cubes as well as a bonus.

Neal
 
Well it looks like the hunt for a 4.1 offcenter will begin soon. The 109 I have now will go back into service and I will beat on it until it needs another freshening. Hopefully by that time I will have located a block and pistons. There is a guy locally that has a bunch of STG2 stuff but I don't know if he will part with any of it. He will never use any of the motors either.
 
Hp is in the range anyway. I ask because if your purpose is longevity, the nicely built 109 can yield a little more hp than you've got and can do it reasonably reliably. A SII block can definitely take more power, but if you can't control it, you'd just be messing up even more expensive stuff.
 
Well that's just it, I had a nicely built and pretty expensive professionally built 109. I saw detonation 1 time for a split second when I hooked up the wastegate lines backwards but that is it. I watched the tune like a hawk and the rod bearings didn't appear to have any damage from detonation. My thinking is a stg2 block kept at 700-750 HP on a clean tune would live just about forever.
 
and that same split second would take out a bearing or melt a piston and damage rings just the same on a stage block .. just going to cost more to fix
 
so.. what are you needing to freshen? what makes you think your block is flexing? stage guys/109 guys probably freshen their setups up just as often.
 
did you check the block for cracks between cam and main .

was this a stock crank or forged
not the best example (or the norm) but im making a little more Hp and dont have the "benifit" of steel caps or a girdle
 
Didn't notice any cracks. I'll be getting the block back next week so I'll know by then. Forged crank, girdle, k1s, etc.
 
interesting to see what your machinist thinks about the damage. was it contamination? or just hard use?
 
Number 2 cam bearing walked on me in my new tsm motor. Checked everything over found no sign of any issues. Raced a local X275 class and turned it up and well.. now I have a two piece block.
Bought an 86 GN with a girdled motor. had about two thousand miles on it. Changing the oil and seen glitter. Tore it down and found number be two cam bearing locked on cam. Didn't even drop any oil pressure. Both motors had steel main caps and girdles, maybe that is the common denominator? Rebuilding my GN motor with stock caps this time.
Love the little 6, but learned one thing. To make horsepower, switch to a V8. Sold my off center stage 2 block and going LS.
 
Picked up my block from the guy I HAD been using. It has sat for 3 weeks without being touched. Its going to Chris Hogeland next week. I looked very carefully for any signs of cracking near the main webbing and cam bore. It all looks good. maybe I will be able to get by with a minor freshening. The rod bushings took an ass whipping along with the main and cam bearings.
 
nothing wrong with breaking stuff as long as you figure out why and how to adjust your approach next time out.detonation will kill any motor.run the car on the rich side and the motor will make plenty of power and live.
 
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