Stage 2 oiling...

[karolko]

I was wondering if anyone can shed some light on how they prefer to feed the oil into their stage motors.

I have seen two setup before, the first where the main oil is fed by onlt the front oil passageway, and another instance where both the front and rear were utilized to feed oil into the motor.

Are there any drawbacks to running oil lines to both the front and rear?

Also on my 153 block i noticed directly beside the front oil inlet there is also a 1/8 NPT port. Is that also an oil port and could it be used to feed the oil to the turbo.

Thanks alot for the help.

Adrian

 

[turbobitt]

I use just the front passage to supply oil to the engine. The 1/8 port for gage, the rear port has a Tee to supply both heads rocker arms with a -4 line and .020-.040 restriction in each line to control oil. I also believe some oil is coming from the pushrods through the lifters so rockers are well oiled. The Turbo supply is taken directly from the remote filter head (AKA turbo saver).

Allan G.

 

[Mike E]

What kind of heads? Stage 2 or ta/champion? How was the block used previously? There are a few passages in the block that may not be drilled if this was previously a stage 2 head motor. Depending on how you want to oil the rockers, you may need to drill them.

I'm feeding mine like turbobitt. One -12 line into the front and feeding the turbo off the remote oil filter housing. There shouldn't be any drawback from feeding both ends, but it's probably unecessary.

 

[karolko]

Mike, i bought the motor from George and it was originally built by Cal Hartline. It has GN1 aluminum heads on it. It is a late 153 castingwith the 6 bolt mains that has never been hurt.

The motor ran and everything in geroge's motor, and he only fed off the front. The reason i ask is that i have seen Gary Harmon's stage motor and his motor is fed from the front and rear.

If i were to feed from the front only' what would be the smallest AN line i should run? If i run oil to the front and back, can i get away with smaller lines? ( i was thinking 2 -8AN lines).

Lastly, most people run oil directly from their remote oil filter mount, but if i fed oil to the turbo from the 1/8" npt port in the front of the block next to the main oil feed line, wouldn't it basically be the same filtered oil?

Thanks for the help guys. This is once again a new learning curve for me, just after i got really good with the 109 stuff.

Adrian

 

[steve hughes]

I feed my 153 in the front with -10an and feed the turbo off the remote oil filter. No need to over complicate it.

 

[Mike E]

Mike, i bought the motor from George and it was originally built by Cal Hartline. It has GN1 aluminum heads on it. It is a late 153 castingwith the 6 bolt mains that has never been hurt.

The motor ran and everything in geroge's motor, and he only fed off the front. The reason i ask is that i have seen Gary Harmon's stage motor and his motor is fed from the front and rear.

If i were to feed from the front only' what would be the smallest AN line i should run? If i run oil to the front and back, can i get away with smaller lines? ( i was thinking 2 -8AN lines).

Lastly, most people run oil directly from their remote oil filter mount, but if i fed oil to the turbo from the 1/8" npt port in the front of the block next to the main oil feed line, wouldn't it basically be the same filtered oil?

Thanks for the help guys. This is once again a new learning curve for me, just after i got really good with the 109 stuff.

Adrian

No worries then, your block must already have everything drilled.

What size outlet is on your pump? There is no reason to reduce the oil feed any more than what it is coming out of the pump. If you run lines front and rear you could drop one size if you tee them off.

You can get oil to the turbo from anywhere after the filter.

 

[karolko]

i have yet to decide if i am going to keep the dutt pump or run a remote pump by going to the belt drive setup.

What would you run with a dutt pump and what would you run with a perterson remote pump?

Adrian

 

[Mike E]

I'm not sure what sizes are on the dutt pump, but I think most use a -12 from pan to pump and -10 out of the pump. If I remember right, the block is tapped 1/2" npt. -10 is the equivalent to 1/2" npt, so that would be a good match.

My peterson pump is -16 in and -12 out. I'm running -12 to the filter and from the filter to the block. Peterson said I could run a -12 in and -10 out, but the -16 in/-12 out is reccomended.

 

[lazaris]

Believe it or not I ran my stage 2 with internal oiling and pick up. Stock volume gears, ported front cover with bypass blocked. Never an oiling issue. Ran 7500 on the shifts, through the lights at 7000. 8.40 ET's

 

[Eticket]

Believe it or not I ran my stage 2 with internal oiling and pick up. Stock volume gears, ported front cover with bypass blocked. Never an oiling issue. Ran 7500 on the shifts, through the lights at 7000. 8.40 ET's

This is interesting. I ran my stage II this way too. However, I never did pull the engine later on to check for bearing wear. (someone did however - not sure what's considered normally wear or not).

 

[turbofabricator]

No such thing as too much oil unless you are talking pressure. Keep the hemorrhaging to a minimum and you will not need a lot of volume. With a modified TA pump cover I just built an engine that pegged the gauge with a 3/8" cordless drill motor. At idle it make 45 psi. Single inlet into the side of the block where the normal oil feed goes for the turbo on a 109 block. -10 an out of the filer to the block and a -12AN from pan to oil pump adaptor. The timing cover was milled .120" off the face and the pump surface was blue printed to the pump shaft (on a mill). It use to make over 125 psi at idle before I fixed the bypass issue. (Long story posted prior). I also filled all the un needed ports in the timing cover with epoxy and drilled the lifter bushings to .060". The engine runs great and has run 10.0 @ 136+ on pump gas and Alky.

 

[Mike E]

Oops, wrong thread.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Questions concerning just this....oiling.

i just need a few questions answered so I can confirm what has and hasnt been drilled in my block...... OC 153 mid model with cross bolted outer caps and regular 4 bolt inners.



Oil flows into the front passage which is located on the top pass side of the block, into the pass side oil galley and then takes a turn into the passage located right behind the passenger side oil galley plug. This passage flows to the 1st main bearing, and then travels directly above the 1st main bearing to the 1st cam bearing. True? False?

This is how the cam journals are oiled. Yes? No?

The rest of the cam journals are oiled in this same manner. Yes? No?

In this 153 block, if i connect the Passenger and Drivers Side Oil Galleys together at the rear of the block with a cross over tube, this will pressurize the Drivers Side Oil Galley allowing for oil to flow to drivers side lifters. True? False?

Will I still need a grooved Cam bearing in any location. Yes? No?

Only needed hole in cam bearings should be in the 6 o-clock position. Yes? No?

What is the Ideal Orifice size for the cam bearings? The current bearings I have have a rather large 1/8" wide slot thats about 3/8"s long.

When drilling/plugging the lifter bore, what is considered the appropriate sized orifice to feed solid lifters?


Thanks everybody!

 

[Mike E]

Yes your description of the oiling is correct.

Athough it would work fine, Instead of looping the two galleys together at the rear of the block, finish the feed hole in the first cam bearing. There should be a hole drilled most of the way through from the #1 cam bore to the drivers galley. You can drill it the rest of the way through with a hand drill. Or you can do both.

I drilled the feed's for the lifters at ~.040. That was the smallest drill that had enough length to make it through the access hole across the lifter bore and through to the galley. This was for isky solid lifters. I'm not sure if my numbers are what's prefered, but it's what I did.

I used TA grooved and coated bearings. That way you can put the oil feed hole in the bearing wherever you want.

 

[ttypewhite]

I have the DLS oiling system on my motor. I snagged this pic from Sam when he was building up his TSM motor. Gives you a full understanding on how it is made up.



Here it is on my motor

 

[norbs]

Question , how are you feeding oil to the distributor/cam gear? I use the stock internal pickup to feed the oil pump, no issues so far. ALso the block has to be tapped to 3/8NPT to use the fitting on the side for oil feed.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Yes your description of the oiling is correct.

Athough it would work fine, Instead of looping the two galleys together at the rear of the block, finish the feed hole in the first cam bearing. There should be a hole drilled most of the way through from the #1 cam bore to the drivers galley. You can drill it the rest of the way through with a hand drill. Or you can do both.

I drilled the feed's for the lifters at ~.040. That was the smallest drill that had enough length to make it through the access hole across the lifter bore and through to the galley. This was for isky solid lifters. I'm not sure if my numbers are what's prefered, but it's what I did.

I used TA grooved and coated bearings. That way you can put the oil feed hole in the bearing wherever you want.

Thank you,

The only issue i have with connecting the driver side main galley to the cam bore, is that there isnt a pilot hole there to start with.... getting the drill started without being off too much worrys me. I figure this is not something to eyeball. Thats why i had been considering the loop that the back of the block, though i wont lie I do have concerns with a loop back there and a worst case scenario of a flywheel explosion.

.040 sounds good for the lifters, me and my machinest were discussing this and we had been thinking in the area of .060 but we wanted some input from others before we started poking holes.

 

[turbobitt]

Thank you,

The only issue i have with connecting the driver side main galley to the cam bore, is that there isnt a pilot hole there to start with.... getting the drill started without being off too much worrys me. I figure this is not something to eyeball. Thats why i had been considering the loop that the back of the block, though i wont lie I do have concerns with a loop back there and a worst case scenario of a flywheel explosion.

.040 sounds good for the lifters, me and my machinest were discussing this and we had been thinking in the area of .060 but we wanted some input from others before we started poking holes.

.060 is to big I think. You can get away with no oil to the lifter if you want but if you get into the modern pin oiled lifters I would go with .030 to .040 max
AG


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[dr_frankenstein]

we were thinking .060 because i will be running a solid mushroom EDM style of flat tappet lifter. since this will be bleeding oil on the cam lobe i wanted to have enough flow to support the oiling feature properly, each EDM hole is .024. im not too sure what the EDM hole is on the pin oiled rollers is though... so im not too sure if the orfice size on the lifters would make that much of an effect.

 

[turbobitt]

we were thinking .060 because i will be running a solid mushroom EDM style of flat tappet lifter. since this will be bleeding oil on the cam lobe i wanted to have enough flow to support the oiling feature properly, each EDM hole is .024. im not too sure what the EDM hole is on the pin oiled rollers is though... so im not too sure if the orfice size on the lifters would make that much of an effect.

I should also add that it will also depend on how you plan on oiling your rocker gear. Some oiling could come from the rockers as well depending on we're you feeding everything. If your externally oiling your rockers and have oil passeges connecting everything you should still have plenty of oil with a .030 to .040 hole.
AG


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