stage one horsepower level?

[plowboy72]

What kind of horsepower advantage will a stage one engine have over a girdled 109 block? I would like a mid to high 9 second car. I know most stock blocks would be iffy at that power level. I have started over with a new car and would like to start off slow before I jump to stage two and hurt a high priced bullet. I need to learn to tune first.

 

[plowboy72]

anyone?

 

[John Wilde]

Do the 8!
Over the 1000 if set up right.

 

[Ormand]

The difference between the Stage I block and the Stage II is in the machining- the castings are the same. People have the 109 block into the 10s, and you might come out ahead to start with a 109, and after you learn to tune the turbo setup, then switch to the Stage block. The 109 block, with a girdle, may handle as much power as the Stage block, but the head bolt pattern is a weakness. The Stage parts are getting rare and expensive. Maybe as much as the T/A aluminum block- I can only guess at the prices.

 

[plowboy72]

so an honest stage 1 would go 9's fairly easy with proper tune? And stay some what reliable?

 

[norbs]

John is that 1000 BHP or RHWP? Stage 1 3.8 blocks have a tendency to crack on the outside between the core plugs. Which is not a easy repair.

 

[turbofabricator]

One other thing to consider is that a StageI block is a rejected StageII block. There tends to be more core shift, resulting in thin spots in a StageI. The good castings went on to be machined as a StageII. I would still rather have a StageI than a girdled 109. The StageI can be drilled for the additional head bolts, but a 109 can not. I think that most if not ALL the stageI's ahve been spoken for. I haven't seen one for sale in a long time. (bare block, anyway) StageII's are still out there, for a price, but they are still plentiful.

 

[Sleeper-6]

Going back to the original question, you not make more power with a stage I or stage II block over the original 109. The stage blocks will handle more power reliably but are still dependent what you bolt to them to make the power. If you're looking to go mid to high nines I would keep costs down and stick with a girdled forged 109. Not to mention if things were to go wrong with learning how to tune you aren't going to thrash a $$$ stage block.

 

[turbofabricator]

Going back to the original question, you not make more power with a stage I or stage II block over the original 109. The stage blocks will handle more power reliably but are still dependent what you bolt to them to make the power. If you're looking to go mid to high nines I would keep costs down and stick with a girdled forged 109. Not to mention if things were to go wrong with learning how to tune you aren't going to thrash a $$$ stage block.

Good advice.

 

[86brick]

If you're not concerned with running TSM or a similar class I would also suggest you try to take as much weight out of the car as possible! Considering how fast some of these TSM guys are running at 3550lbs with a 109 on a regular basis without breakage I'd say they are fairly reliable at that level. Tuning is obviously something that will determine your results so make sure if you don't know what you're doing you get a competent tuner to help you!

 

[Lee Thompson]

maybe I'm missing something

One other thing to consider is that a StageI block is a rejected StageII block. There tends to be more core shift, resulting in thin spots in a StageI. The good castings went on to be machined as a StageII. I would still rather have a StageI than a girdled 109. The StageI can be drilled for the additional head bolts, but a 109 can not. I think that most if not ALL the stageI's ahve been spoken for. I haven't seen one for sale in a long time. (bare block, anyway) StageII's are still out there, for a price, but they are still plentiful.

Aren't all Stage I blocks cast with the oil pickup in the same location as a 109and Stage II with the oil pickup in the front?

 

[forcedfedv6]

anyone?

Nordy racer from this board is running consistent 9.60's at 142mph with a girdle 109 and stock caps the car has a 9.40 in it if he was to push it harder, look his name up and check out his build up. I think is an anderson performance build stroker motor to a 249ci.

 

[2 SLOW]

Another difference between Stage 1 and Stage 2 blocks is that Stage 1 has two bolt mains and Stage 2 has four bolt mains. This could be wrong, but many years ago before girdles were around 109 blocks were good for about 600 to 625 hp before spitting parts. A stage 1 block was good for about 750 hp, and a stage 2 I don't think anyone knows. To run 142 mph on a 109 block in a 3500# car would take just short of 800 hp. So it shows how far they have come with girdles and other tricks to make the 109 block make big hp.

 

[m233roller]

Hey Ken B.
This is Mike D. over here in Spokane. Iv'e got a brand new stage 1 block (never been machined) 012 casting 3.8 that Iv'e been trying to sell. I must want to much for it as Iv'e had LOTS of inquires on it but no buyer. I'm going to drop the price.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Are you really going to stop at mid 9's if you get there?? Probably not so I would just pony up for the TA block and save some $$ in the long run. You don't sound like the kind of guy who is going to sell your GN in 1 or 2 years if you are already looking into Stage motors.

I would look at the TA block like a $3000 insurance policy for the $6000 motor ( on top of block ) you are probably going to put together. A bunch of great builders will meet your needs and as long as you can tune or pay for a tuner that block will live a happy life of making consistent ( big )power for you.

 

[JayC]

Aren't all Stage I blocks cast with the oil pickup in the same location as a 109and Stage II with the oil pickup in the front?

Yes

The main caps on Stage 1s need to be replaced. They are actually weaker than 109 caps according to everything Ive ever been told. The alloy quality is not supposed to be as good.

 

[Otto J]

My stage 1 3.8 motor had splayed 4 bolt center caps and billet front and rears.
With a hydraulic roller cam and a GTS 76 turbo I ran 9.4 at 147 in a 3600# car.
It cracked the front main ot when a repaired crank I had broke in 2 between the #s1 and 2 journals
at 6800RPM!

Stage 1 and 2 motors are not the same castings.