Stainless Steel Valves

[87TIGN]

I rebuilt my motor with LOTS of goodies well after I installed it I had a massive oil burning problem. So after trying everything I pulled it to see what happened. At first I thought it was my rings so I brought it to my machine shop (who is very reputable and knows these motors) and he tore it down. Turns out everything was perfrect on it so it was nothing I had done. The leakdown and rings were perfect. Well I had put the revolution X roller cam kit from Full Throttle in when I oringinally built the motor with a 210/215 duration and a .516 lift and apparently it was too much for my stock valves. I had alot of work done to these stock heads fully ported and polished when I had the original machine work done along with titanium valve seats and positive seals. So my guy called me and told me that the valves were the problem and that the lift was so big it was causing the valves to seep a little bit of oil and than burn it up in the combustion chamber. So he is going to enlarge the bowls a bit more and put bigger stainless valves in. Anyone had this problem before? Anyone used stainless valves? What are the advantages? Disadvantages? I would assume that they flow better and the obvious more surface area to allow more mixture in and exhaust out along with the fact they will resist corrosion big time. Any input? Thanks in advance
-Andrew

 

[Chuck Leeper]

1.Lift at .515 is not the cause of the oil burning. Most likely the guides are shot.
2. Titanium seats??
3. Most high performance valves are stainless. Suggest you use a good quality SS intake, and Inconel exhaust.
4. Was the intake gasket, and PVC investigated B4 you decided the engine needed to come out? What did the valve stem seals look like?
5. A set of larger valves, and pocket work should pick up some flow, IF done right.
6. Try a search. Intake/exhaust valve choices have been discussed many times.. Some more recently. There may be more info to help you answer your ??'s
7. Maybe, try another engine shop, for a second opinion??

 

[Nick Micale]

I agree with Chuck on answer #7.

We have used hundreds of SS valves in Buick heads and never seen this problem?

Did you do a comp. and leakdown check before you pulled the engine?

Your shop may "know" these engines, but does he have a track record?

"Valve lift is so big causing it to burn oil.... so he is going to install larger valves" just does not make sense, sorry. We have done Buicks with almost .700" lift and do not have oil smoking/burning problems.

 

[turbofabricator]

Maybe the original builder didn't cut the stock exh. guides down for the needed clearance, and just slid a seal over the guide. THEN there wouldn't be sufficient clearance with .516" lift. The heads need to have the guides fixed and cut down and machined for a PC seal. Then the oiling problem will magically dissappear. If you already had stainless valves, and he wants to go bigger, it will require custom valves. $$$$

 

[Mike Licht]

I think Ken is on the money here, I bet the retainers are hitting the stock type seals on the intakes
ML

 

[87TIGN]

Yeah sorry I didnt mean titanium valve seats i just meant new ones I was doing 2 things at once and must have typed it. So I am pretty sure he already started doing the work so I guess now I have SS valves huh? So you think it was just the seals were bad?

 

[Chuck Leeper]

"So you think it was just the seals were bad?"
Take a look at them, and you should be able to see if they were crushed by the bottom of the retainers. As others have said: guides not machined = interference. My bad. I 'assumed" that since the heads were ported, etc, that the rest of the work would have also been done.. Maybe not??

 

[Mike Licht]

If it is not seals it would usually be the guides, Cheuck I have seen plenty of ported heads not machined, gets em every time. I highly doubt it is the valves
ML

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Yep..

If it is not seals it would usually be the guides, Cheuck I have seen plenty of ported heads not machined, gets em every time. I highly doubt it is the valves
ML

The phrase "done right", comes to mind..
If the same shop that did the engine, did the heads, I'd find another shop.. [Refer to Nick's post]

 

[87TIGN]

Im at a loss guys.... I dunno what to do.... this guy comes very highly recomended by everyone I have talked to. He has done a couple other buick motors and when I initially called him for this job I asked him what he knew and he recited all the clearances and specs, off the top of his head, that I got off this site when machining the rods and crank. I have done work with him before and been happy with him. I am a little nervous now about this whole situation. Maybe I understood wrong what he told me on the phone? Its probebly too late because I talked to him about it yesterday morning and if I were to call him I dont want to piss him off by questioning his integrity while he still has my motor. I dont think he would screw something up but I dont know. Dunno what I should do......
-Andrew

 

[87TIGN]

Maybe the original builder didn't cut the stock exh. guides down for the needed clearance, and just slid a seal over the guide. THEN there wouldn't be sufficient clearance with .516" lift. The heads need to have the guides fixed and cut down and machined for a PC seal. Then the oiling problem will magically dissappear. If you already had stainless valves, and he wants to go bigger, it will require custom valves. $$$$

I didnt already have SS valves I just had the stockers in there. Now here is something else... I bought the car off a guy and he had the motor rebuilt before by a shop in Denver that is NOT reputable at all. When I pulled the motor to rebuild it and I tore it down I was not impressed with the crap I found. I dont think the cam was shimmed right because it was ruined along with all the pushrods and rockers and that why it was knocking so bad. so like turbofabricator was saying maybe the guy who did it before screwed up the valve job and it wasnt stock at all.... Maybe thats why I have this problem now and my builder found it and is gonna fix it the best he can?? The seals he put in there the first time around before i had the oil burning problem where a blue color with a goldish band around them. I forget what the name of them was but they were the recomended seals for the motor.

 

[87TIGN]

I agree with Chuck on answer #7.

We have used hundreds of SS valves in Buick heads and never seen this problem?

Did you do a comp. and leakdown check before you pulled the engine?

Your shop may "know" these engines, but does he have a track record?

"Valve lift is so big causing it to burn oil.... so he is going to install larger valves" just does not make sense, sorry. We have done Buicks with almost .700" lift and do not have oil smoking/burning problems.

I did have a compression test and leakdown test on the motor before and after it was pulled and both times they came back perfect
-Andrew

 

[turbofabricator]

Those blue seals are the Fel-Pro stock replacement. They work good, but ONLY on the intakes. If they installed a valve seal on the exhaust guide, they would have had to machine the guide for that. Then with stock exhaust valves, there is a cut down section that acts like an oil pump. The blue seals will NOT work on the stock exhaust valves. Going to SS valves will cure the problem. IF machined correctly. Most machine shops can figure it out.,

 

[87TIGN]

Ok thank you so much. He seems to be very compitent so lets cross our fingers. Thanks for you time and help guys. As always you guys are the best
-Andrew

 

[charlief1]

If you want to take care of the valve seal and lift issues you can purhcase a seal cutter yourself and do what you need to. Use a cutter for a sbc and use the sbc seals.