Starting T-Type After LONG Term Storage

[earlbrown]

Replace ALL the vac lines no matter if you think they're bad or not. Make sure to pay close attention to the gray wye between the turbo-wastegate-solenoid. If you install it wrong you can overboost the engine and pop a head gasket.

Also, blow through the check valves. If they pass air both directions, they're bad. Since out cars are supercharged, you don't want to be pressurizing stuff that's designed to only see vacuum.

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

Still performing a few checks before cranking her up... specifically checking out the turbo, trying to figure out some wiring, and trying to identify a vacuum hose.

Turbo inlet looks fine and surprisingly clean. The leading edges on the impeller vanes/blades are a touch rough, but otherwise it spins freely without noise and there is zero play in the turbo shaft.
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Here it looks like a vacuum hose is missing on a sensor bolted to the passenger side valve cover. (Circled in red.) Not sure where it would go.
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I'll probably create a separate thread for the following, but figured I would post them here as well. My father has a number of technical manuals and wiring diagrams that are dog-eared and notated, so my guess there is a purpose for each.

First there is a resistor acting as a jumper for plug underneath the driver's side dash. No clue about this.
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Second there is switch on the steering column that I originally thought was some sort of kill switch, but it looks like it is instead connected to the pressure switch on the accumulator. I'm guessing it was possibly for a quick A/C cuttoff. (???) I think the blue wire should be the green wire.
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Third there is an orange wire that is connected to the positive battery terminal, then routed back through the driver's side firewall, then back out into the main wiring harness behind the the accumulator. I know this is the ECM/KAM power wire. My guess is that this is/was once a kill-switch, but I don't see a switch. It just looks a bit out of place.
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[earlbrown]

What's with the one blade at about 2:00? Those shiny spots look compromising. They are pretty beat up too.

On the missing vac line, don't worry about that. It's a dump to the atmosphere. It never draws in air. It cam with a small foam cover from the factory that probably fell off on day 2.


I can't tell what the plug is from your picture but the resistor you identified is actually a diode.

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

What's with the one blade at about 2:00? Those shiny spots look compromising. They are pretty beat up too.

I believe those spots are related to the camera. They're not present in the other pictures. What is exactly beat up, aside from the leading edges being weathered? Do you mean mechanically faulty or just cosmetically undesirable?

Keep in mind my goal is to simply get the car running without something grenading - not run in the 10s or win at a concourse.

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

Was able to make some good progress today, and found some interesting tidbits of information about the car.

Scoped the gas tank as best I could, and didn't find any evidence of rust. Siphoned/drained about 2.5 gallons of gas, and also didn't find any evidence of sediment/rust. Replaced the fuel filter, and added some new gas, heet, and Lucas oil to clear any condensation in the fuel rail. Underside of the car looks pretty clean too.

Pulled all the intake pipes and hoses for a quick clean and reconditioning. Throttle body was also pretty clean. K&N filter needs a serious cleaning and re-oiling, so it's been doing it's job well. Replaced smaller vacuum lines.

Pulled the orange kill switch, which was in turn connected to multiple fuses and rocker switches hidden in the cabin. Also disconnected the A/C cutoff switch. (Still not sure what that damn diode is for. My guess is that it's supposed to fool the seatbelt gong or similar.)

Then the fun stuff... found an invoice dated 2001 for $11,000 to rebuild/upgrade the engine and transmission from a place called Conley Racing in Houston. Also found a receipt for a Kirban high performance fuel pump. Found a handful of brand new parts too, including injectors, injector harness, EGR valve, and so forth.
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Tomorrow hopefully I'll get the new battery in and turn it over without the plugs to do a compression test... then maybe a full start. I'll try to make a video of that. Wish me luck.

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

Well, so far success... able to turn the engine over with the starter (no plugs/no ECU), so mechanically I think I'm in good shape.

Also decided to take a look at the chip to see if it is stock or not. Turns out it is from a place called Applied Technology & Research out of Fair Play, SC. Unfortunately, like Conley Racing above, they are no longer around so my guess is that it is a pretty basic chip from the late '90s or early '00s.

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Compression test up next... then new plugs, and a full start if the K&N filter ever dries.

 

[Shawn N]

Call Eric at Turbo Tweak and get a modern 5.7 chip. You don't need any emissions stuff here. Safety inspection only. The orange wire is the ecm memory wire and that's were it's supposed to be. He must of rigged it in the kill switch. The switch on the a/c drier likely fell apart and your dad just put spade connectors on it instead of splicing a new plug in place idk. The top wire in the plug is blue and the bottom green. I'm not sure what the other wire is. I can still come out tonight if you need help or compare the wiring vs mine. I'm generally up to 2 or 3am. And I have boost solenoid filters lol!!!

 

[1986 Buick GX1]

Well, so far success... able to turn the engine over with the starter (no plugs/no ECU), so mechanically I think I'm in good shape.

Also decided to take a look at the chip to see if it is stock or not. Turns out it is from a place called Applied Technology & Research out of Fair Play, SC. Unfortunately, like Conley Racing above, they are no longer around so my guess is that it is a pretty basic chip from the late '90s or early '00s.

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Compression test up next... then new plugs, and a full start if the K&N filter ever dries.

If you pull the chip out, there should be more info on a sticky dot.

I had an Applied Technologies & Research Pit Bull street chip and I really liked the cold start up's quick return to low idle programming along with the tcc lock and unlock speeds.
I thought the street manners & drivability was great.
Raising the fuel shut off limit from 124.8 mph to 200 mph did come in useful as well, and that's all I'll say.
The programming could not be changed like the Turbo Tweak chips though.

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

So good news more or less... got new plugs in, and it starts! (Sorry for the crappy video.)

Idle is not like how I remember it. Sounds like an LS1 to me (bit of a lopey V8). It's idling at about 1,000 rpm, but I have not let it idle for more than a minute. There are a lot of cleaning chemicals burning off the block, so the garage gets pretty noxious quickly. NO service engine soon light.

That being said there is still probably a little bad gas in the tank.. the air filter was just cleaned and re-oiled... and I couldn't find the the AC24 or UR5 spark plugs - so I'm using some Bosch Iridium plugs. Not sure how sensitive this car is to plugs (at just idle).

I'm also hearing 2 or 3 somewhat loud snaps ten to fifteen seconds after each start. Sound like a mechanical switch, somewhat similar to the A/C compressor engaging. I'm wondering if has something to do with the turbo vac lines. (Not sure why.)

Put it in neutral, and attempted to increase the revs a little, but it died. When the boost gauge starts to climb the engine starts to stumble. Gonna let it idle for a bit longer see if that changes things - still hasn't had a chance to get to operating temperature.

Thanks for all the good advice up to this point. I'm open to more bright ideas. I'm going to change out the tranny filter/fluid and diff fluid next... then I'll be ready to pull it outside. I'll try to get more video as well.

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

Quick update... was able to let it run for 3-4 minutes before being gassed out of the garage. Seemed to do better. Was able to rev it up a little without it dying, and I could hear the turbo spooling a little too when increasing revs by pedal and at the throttle body.

The clicking noises occurred, but it seemed to happen while I was shifting the car from park to reverse to neutral - so maybe there are some sticky solenoids. Again, just a guess.

There is still smoke in the engine bay, but I'm hoping it is just from cleaning chemicals burning off. It appears to be coming from around the headers, so I'm praying they are not cracked, but then the smoke does not increase when the revs increase and only starts when the engine starts to heat up. Need to look up symptoms of leaking headers.

 

[Shawn N]

Typically these car drip oil onto the crossover pipe. The valve cover gaskets and rear main seal are the usual suspects. It's a boost thing so don't sweat it to much unless it's a full on drip. Using synthetic oil will make it worse if they are seeping a little bit. The fan might be the clicker or the a/c compressor cutoff switch. That lime green wire below it does go to the switch. The loping idol is the stock mass air flow sensor and older ATR chip likely. We typically change out the stock mass sensor for a modern LT-1 3" or LS-1 3.5" mass sensor with a Translator from Bob Baily. That's up to you though since you will have to change to hard intake pipe and remove the stock air hose to turbo and use a 8"or 9" cone filter on the end of the sensor. Around $500 new to change it out altogether. I'm glad you got her running!

 

[Frederickdav]

Good going! A few more tweaks and it'll be running like a Swiss watch! Keep us informed.

 

[John Larkin]

Check the tightness of the torque converter bolts. It is easy, mine were loose back when. That could be the source of those snaps.

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

Small setback... I decided to test if the MAF sensor is bad by unplugging it while the car was running. Unplugging the MAF while at idle had no effect on the car, which leads me to believe that it probably is toast after all this time.

Unfortunately, when I plugged the MAF back in (car still running) it died almost instantly. Subsequently, I'm unable to get it started again. It turns over... runs for 2-3 seconds tops then dies. During that brief time and immediately after, I hear some something like hissing - so I'm thinking I need to re-inspect the vacuum lines.

Hopefully I didn't short/damage something else by plugging it back in while running. Maybe the engine is just flooded, so I'll let it sit overnight before trying again.

 

[John Larkin]

Unplug the orange wire for a minute and reconnect- this clears any set malfunction codes. Then with the key on, engine not running (duh), press the accelerator pedal to the floor once. That procedure is called "clear flood". You likely will be able to start the car afterward.

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

Unplug the orange wire for a minute and reconnect- this clears any set malfunction codes. Then with the key on, engine not running (duh), press the accelerator pedal to the floor once. That procedure is called "clear flood". You likely will be able to start the car afterward.

Tried this, and some other variations I have read online - nothing worked. Checked all the fuses on the driver's side - all are fine.

Are there any other fuse locations I need to check?

Interestingly enough, after my little experiment the boost gauge reads 5 pounds of boost BEFORE starting the car. I'm sure reading 5lbs of boost a 0 rpm is causing havoc with the timing.

What sensor(s) could be sending that faulty boost reading? How would they be reset?

 

[Shawn N]

Your factory gauge isn't working correctly. It's wired together with the map sensor. It's also has a vacuum line off the throttle body vacuum block. It's runs next to the PCV line then turns into a plastic line and go's to the map sensor itself on the pass side relay bracket. Don't judge boost based off the factory gauge anyway. If you don't already have an aftermarket boost gauge in the car plan on installing one!

 

[Linewalker]

Your factory gauge isn't working correctly. It's wired together with the map sensor. It's also has a vacuum line off the throttle body vacuum block. It's runs next to the PCV line then turns into a plastic line and go's to the map sensor itself on the pass side relay bracket. Don't judge boost based off the factory gauge anyway. If you don't already have an aftermarket boost gauge in the car plan on installing one!

X2 on the aftermarket gauge. The factory boost gauge is ka ka. As well as the tach gauge btw.

 

[mikestertwo]

Interestingly enough, after my little experiment the boost gauge reads 5 pounds of boost BEFORE starting the car. I'm sure reading 5lbs of boost a 0 rpm is causing havoc with the timing.
What sensor(s) could be sending that faulty boost reading? How would they be reset?

The computer doesn't look at boost. The MAP sensor just runs the boost gage and nothing else. It has no effect on timing or fueling. Either the gauge is faulty or the MAP sensor is. At this point it's not an issue.

 

[87_TX_T-Type]

Your factory gauge isn't working correctly. It's wired together with the map sensor. It's also has a vacuum line off the throttle body vacuum block. It's runs next to the PCV line then turns into a plastic line and go's to the map sensor itself on the pass side relay bracket. Don't judge boost based off the factory gauge anyway. If you don't already have an aftermarket boost gauge in the car plan on installing one!

There actually is an aftermarket gauge too (but it is not hooked up at this time). I'm not interested in the accuracy of the gauge per se, just wondering if the sudden malfunction is coincidental or caused by my testing the MAF somehow. Per Mike it just sounds coincidental.

Will the car start even if the MAF is busted/disconnected? I know other vehicles have a limp home or Alpha-n mode when the MAF is out, but will still run (rough) regardless.

My logic is this:
- If a car will NOT start with a bad MAF - the MAF (assuming it was good before) kicked the bucket when plugged back in; hence causing a future non-start condition.
- If a car WILL start regardless of the MAF being plugged in or faulty - the act of plugging the MAF back in and the sudden stall created another issue down the line.

I'm thinking the latter point since the car's idle did not change when the MAF was initially unplugged which indicates it was not working to begin with.

Regardless I ordered the 5.7 chip, LT1 MAF, and translator today. In the meantime, I'm also going to change out the EGR, all fuel injectors, injector harness, and fuel pressure regulator since I have them laying around.