Street muffler recommendation?

[Otto J]

I run the Torque Tech dual 3" aluminized with reg Dynomax super turbo 3" mufflers,they are around 16" long.
Real quiet and at steady highway speeds cant hear any ex.
I really like it,It makes noise a full throttle but allows you to hear
what the motor is doing,And with a 3.5" downpipe and dual 3 inch mandrel ex,
Its not corked up at all,opening a dump would do nothing.
I am gonna remake the dump pipe that came with the downpipe so it doesnt have a cutout in it.
Jst need a length of 3.5: pipe in stainless,Maybe Cottons will have one I can grab tomorrow.

 

[Dreamcar86]

Here goes AGAIN...... Putting a muffler where the cat goes, does VERY little if anything. THe BEST and quietest system you can do (not buy) is to use 2.5" duals with two mufflers under the rear seat, and a third muffler behind the rear axle (stock location) Use two Dynomax Ultra-Flows (or Magnaflows) http://www.jegs.com/i/Dynomax/289/17283/10002/-1/744882|10265 and then use a cross flow Ultra-flow in the stock location Dynomax 17276 - JEGS Here's a picture of the exhaust system on Bob's car. http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/167389-3-mufflers-quiet-system.html A little history is due here. The system was deveoped by a local fabricator (Sean O'Brien) on D. Hogan's car. He runs mid 10's on this system, in 2.5" And has a similar system on his StageII car in 3" that runs 9.1's @149.8mph. The only draw back to the system, is that you can now here EVERY little engine noise. (ever hear a solid roller cam? ) He can drive up my driveway and I DON'T even hear him. I was expecting him last week and STILL didn't hear him.(and I was in my garage) It is church mouse quiet, and has NO drone and still performs like a 3" single. It IS very costly to build, though. You can save money and build it out of aluminized mild steel, and it should last MANY years. I am going to build one soon for my car. I have a single 3" that has dual 2.5" tail pipes, and I have too much drone drone. (I know, I'm too old) http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-lounge/194545-new-exhaust-system.html

Ken,

For those of us running the dual Hooker setup it looks like the only thing we need is the third muffler. Seems pretty straight forward for a competent muffler shop. Anything one would need to know to make that work?

 

[2 SLOW]

Ken,

For those of us running the dual Hooker setup it looks like the only thing we need is the third muffler. Seems pretty straight forward for a competent muffler shop. Anything one would need to know to make that work?

Yes it should work fine. It is just about what I did when I went to three mufflers.

Ken is right about putting a muffler where the cat goes. What stops the drone is to have the muffler as far back as possible with the least tail pipe after the muffler. Also if you put a muffler there it will get so hot being so close to the motor that it will quickly burn out the inside of the muffler. I know this because I tried it. And it doesn't make it any quieter.

Let me tell a little story about how this three muffler thing came about. In about 1994 or 1995 a friend and I drove from Seattle to Bakersfield to race in an event put on by the SoCal club which had about 250 members at the time. So they had about 50 or 60 cars show up. At the time I had the ATR pit bull system on the car. The car was running low 12's at the time. Its a little over 1000 miles each way. The car droned so bad both ways that we both almost had migrane headaches by the time we got back.

At the track Dynomax had a display of their mufflers and handed out catologs. Back at the hotel I looked in the catolog and saw a diagram of the OEM exhaust system for the TR's. I looked at it and wondered why the factory designed it that way when it seemed to me it would have been easier and cheaper for the factory to design it more like the ATR system since car companies like to save money any way they can. I realized that having the muffler back there was what cut down the drone. I looked at all the mufflers they had listed and found the Ultraflo 17276 was the best muffler to try to fix the drone. This muffler is like a double barrel shotgun. It is two perforated tubes with no restriction whatsoever. When I came back I went to Sean O'Brian and asked him if he could make that muffler fit where the stock one used to be. He said he could and did a great job.

I'm sorry but I have to laugh when I see the concerns about the weight of these mufflers. The single stock one is very heavy because of all the restrictive chambers to make it quiet. The 17276 is lighter and the two 17263's that go under the back seat area put together problably don't weigh any more than the stock one. You also have to realize that the exhaust is going thru a 3" downpipe into two 2 1/2" pipes. The area in square inces of a 3" pipe is less than two 2 1/2" pipes. And these are three straight thru mufflers with no chambers and no restrictions. AND air contracts as it cools, which is what it is doing as it travels thru the pipes to the outside. The race car is a 3 1/2" downpipe into two 3" pipes.

As far as which mufflers to use, the Ultraflos are more expensive because they are stainless and will last forever. Mine have been on for over 13 years and 70K and are about as good as they were new. It depends on how long you plan to keep the car, and your budget.

I have always had fun at the track pulling in the staging lanes and not getting much attention, and then after a run coming back to the staging lanes and having people look and listen not believing that quiet car went that fast. I have had people come up to the race car and just assume I drive it on the street because it is so quiet. And on the street I have gotten out of a few tickets after being pulled over because it is so quiet and smooth idling. I consider that to be priceless. And whats better than beating some really loud v8 car with your really quiet car at the track. That makes my day.

 

[turbofabricator]

Yah, What "2 Slow" said.... By the way, that's what his license plate says, too. DON'T believe it. His license plate frame says: "My other Turbo Buick V6 is faster" . It looks and sounds like a true grandpa car (even his race car) but HE doesn't look the part, though........No, wait he DOES! ) 60 is todays 40, right?:biggrin: But, the way I feel, it is: "46 is todays 76".

 

[Ttype83]

Been looking at the hooker max flows, quiter than a flowmaster and dynomax ultra and flows 521 on a 2 1/2" system.
Copied from a ls1 site

The results in HP order:
1.Flowtech Warlock (open) 374.2 hp/ 333.1 tq
2.Bassani Real Street 373.7 hp/ 333.8 tq
3.Hooker Maxflow 373.5 hp/ 333 tq
4.Borla XS 373.3 hp/ 332.6 tq
5.Magnaflow 372.8 / 332.5 tq
6.MAC 372.3 hp / 331.5 tq
7.Flowtech Afterburner 372.3 hp/ 330.1 tq
8.Hooker Aerochamber 372.1 hp/ 330.4 tq
9.Bassani 372 hp/ 333.5 tq
10.Spintech 371.6 hp/ 332.2 tq
11.Edelbrock Performer RPM 370.9 hp / 331.3 tq
12.Borla XR1 370 hp/ 334 tq
13.Flowtech Terminator 369.5 hp / 331.3 tq
14.Dynomax Ultra Flo 369.4 / 333.2 tq
15.Flowmaster 369.4 hp / 331.8 tq
16.Flowtech Warlock 366.3 hp / 325.3 tq
17.No muffs 365.2 hp / 330.1 tq

Sound Off in Quietest to Loudest (Decibels):

1.Borla XS, 80db at idle, 90db at 2,000 rpm, 110db at WOT.
2.Hooker Maxflow, 80db at idle, 90db at 2,000 rpm, 120db at WOT.
3.Magnaflow, 82db at idle, 91 at 2,000 rpm, 114db at WOT.
4.Flowmaster, 82db at idle, 93 at 2,000 rpm, 115db at WOT.
5.Flowtech Warlock, 83db at idle, 92 at 2,000 rpm, 112db at WOT.
6.Dynomax UltraFlo, 83db at idle, 94 at 2,000 rpm, 113db at WOT.
7.Borla XR1, 83db at idle, 96db at 2,000 rpm, 118db at WOT.
8.Bassani Street, 83db at idle, 96db at 2,000 rpm, 120db at WOT.
9.Edelbrock RPM, 84db at idle, 93db at 2,000 rpm, 118db at WOT.
10.Bassani Real Street, 84db at idle, 96db at 2,000 rpm, MAX. (120+db).
11.Flowtech Afterburner, 86db at idle, 94db at 2,000 rpm, 115db at WOT.
12.Flowtech Terminator, 86db at idle, 94db at 2,000 rpm, 119db at WOT.
13.Hooker Aerochamber, 87db at idle, 94db at 2,000 rpm, 114db at WOT.
14.SpinTech, 87db at idle, 97db at 2,000 rpm, 116db at WOT.
15.MAC, 87db at idle, 98db at 2,000 rpm, 119db at WOT.
16.No Muffler, 91db at idle, 103db at 2,000 rpm, MAX. (120+db).

 

[turbofabricator]

V8's have COMPLETELY different harmonics at play, and that effects the way a muffler works. Walker Ultra Flows, or similar designs, work the best on a turbo car. With the third muffler installed (cross flow) the two opposing pulses counter act the drone. It is because the harmonic pulse goes against the earths rotational forces and mini tornadoes are created inside the muffler that litterally EATS the drone alive. The poor drone just doesn't have a chance. I feel sorry for the drone inside a cross flow muffler.......Poor drone. Actually I really don't know for sure the dynamics inside a muffler, but I do know it works. Must be resonance MAGIC!

 

[Ttype83]

V8's have COMPLETELY different harmonics at play, and that effects the way a muffler works. Walker Ultra Flows, or similar designs, work the best on a turbo car. With the third muffler installed (cross flow) the two opposing pulses counter act the drone. It is because the harmonic pulse goes against the earths rotational forces and mini tornadoes are created inside the muffler that litterally EATS the drone alive. The poor drone just doesn't have a chance. I feel sorry for the drone inside a cross flow muffler.......Poor drone. Actually I really don't know for sure the dynamics inside a muffler, but I do know it works. Must be resonance MAGIC!

I found it odd that the hp rating on the two (maxflow & Ulta Flo) since they are the same design, they should be the same or close. It does appear that the maxflows are just a tad quieter (3db). I was surprised on how well my super turbo muffler did, out flows a flowmaster 2 chamber....and people still put them on buicks

 

[turbofabricator]

Yah, I've never understood the appeal of the Flowmasters. I don't like how they sound, even on a V8. They are hideous on a turbo six. An Ultra-flow (or similar designed muffler) has the nicest sound and the best performance. I will admit, that I really don't like the sound of a turbo six anyway. ('cept for a StageII at 8,000+rpm) I always felt that they sound like a John Deere tractor running down the track. I have even thought about having someone paint on the hood bulge (in place of the 3.8 sfi turbo) "Powered by John Deere":biggrin:

 

[blackmonte]

Cotton Performance 2.5'' stainless exhaust .

 

[BLACK6PACK]

Yah, I've never understood the appeal of the Flowmasters. I don't like how they sound, even on a V8. They are hideous on a turbo six. An Ultra-flow (or similar designed muffler) has the nicest sound and the best performance. I will admit, that I really don't like the sound of a turbo six anyway. ('cept for a StageII at 8,000+rpm) I always felt that they sound like a John Deere tractor running down the track. I have even thought about having someone paint on the hood bulge (in place of the 3.8 sfi turbo) "Powered by John Deere":biggrin:

What do you mean you don't like the sound. nice v8's rumble at idle and scream at full throttle. Buick turbo v6's sound like BLAAAAAAAAAAAAA (scream it with a scratchy throat and you've got it) at WOT.

 

[turbofabricator]

It's a good thing they have a fence around Bowling Green's race track, or every sheep with in 20 miles would come runnin' during the GSNat's!! Is that BAAAAAaaaaaaa or is that BBLLLAAAAAAaaaaaaaa?

 

[GNBRETT]

Beat me to it! Been there done that, sold to someone else. Brett, take it you are back in the game then???

Yea, back in the money pit. Been a while just could not hold out any longer These cars seem to be the only thing that keeps me sane. Ill be in touch soon Mark. I have an item or two I will need. Ill contact you in a couple. Btw, whats a get out of jail free card...

 

[GNBRETT]

I wouldnt say much more about the police. You dont want to offend anyone

Dam cops.... Whats up Bri.

 

[Dreamcar86]

Yes it should work fine. It is just about what I did when I went to three mufflers.

Ken is right about putting a muffler where the cat goes. What stops the drone is to have the muffler as far back as possible with the least tail pipe after the muffler. Also if you put a muffler there it will get so hot being so close to the motor that it will quickly burn out the inside of the muffler. I know this because I tried it. And it doesn't make it any quieter.

Let me tell a little story about how this three muffler thing came about. In about 1994 or 1995 a friend and I drove from Seattle to Bakersfield to race in an event put on by the SoCal club which had about 250 members at the time. So they had about 50 or 60 cars show up. At the time I had the ATR pit bull system on the car. The car was running low 12's at the time. Its a little over 1000 miles each way. The car droned so bad both ways that we both almost had migrane headaches by the time we got back.

At the track Dynomax had a display of their mufflers and handed out catologs. Back at the hotel I looked in the catolog and saw a diagram of the OEM exhaust system for the TR's. I looked at it and wondered why the factory designed it that way when it seemed to me it would have been easier and cheaper for the factory to design it more like the ATR system since car companies like to save money any way they can. I realized that having the muffler back there was what cut down the drone. I looked at all the mufflers they had listed and found the Ultraflo 17276 was the best muffler to try to fix the drone. This muffler is like a double barrel shotgun. It is two perforated tubes with no restriction whatsoever. When I came back I went to Sean O'Brian and asked him if he could make that muffler fit where the stock one used to be. He said he could and did a great job.

I'm sorry but I have to laugh when I see the concerns about the weight of these mufflers. The single stock one is very heavy because of all the restrictive chambers to make it quiet. The 17276 is lighter and the two 17263's that go under the back seat area put together problably don't weigh any more than the stock one. You also have to realize that the exhaust is going thru a 3" downpipe into two 2 1/2" pipes. The area in square inces of a 3" pipe is less than two 2 1/2" pipes. And these are three straight thru mufflers with no chambers and no restrictions. AND air contracts as it cools, which is what it is doing as it travels thru the pipes to the outside. The race car is a 3 1/2" downpipe into two 3" pipes.

As far as which mufflers to use, the Ultraflos are more expensive because they are stainless and will last forever. Mine have been on for over 13 years and 70K and are about as good as they were new. It depends on how long you plan to keep the car, and your budget.

I have always had fun at the track pulling in the staging lanes and not getting much attention, and then after a run coming back to the staging lanes and having people look and listen not believing that quiet car went that fast. I have had people come up to the race car and just assume I drive it on the street because it is so quiet. And on the street I have gotten out of a few tickets after being pulled over because it is so quiet and smooth idling. I consider that to be priceless. And whats better than beating some really loud v8 car with your really quiet car at the track. That makes my day.

That was very informative. Thanks for taking the time to explain the story because we can all relate to the GN drone especially on those long road trips.

 

[Roger]

Been out of town a coupla weeks. I ordered the recommended muffler yesterday - Dynomax 17276 - JEGS. JEGS doesn't list them in their catalog & said they are special order. Will take at least two weekt & total was just over $200.

 

[blackmonte]

I now have the dreaded drone with the 3'' THDP its too loud for me now if I crack the window it gets quieter?, I am thinking on putting a magnaflow where the Cat was?My Aerochamber hooker exhaust was quiet but fell apart after 10 years ,but for the money its a good exhaust. But I had to have stainless and cotton's is a very nice exhaust to say the least.

 

[87GN_70GS]

I had the Hooker cat-back with the Hooker MaxFlows and was very pleased with sound and performance.

 

[cchilly]

I now have the dreaded drone with the 3'' THDP its too loud for me now if I crack the window it gets quieter?, I am thinking on putting a magnaflow where the Cat was?My Aerochamber hooker exhaust was quiet but fell apart after 10 years ,but for the money its a good exhaust. But I had to have stainless and cotton's is a very nice exhaust to say the least.

So your saying you got drone with when you added the DP. Did you have the hooker exhaust or cotton's.

I ask because I was thinking of either getting the hooker or cotton's. Not sure yet. I want to get a gbody DP at some point too. I would rather not have drone though. Which exhaust do you think is quieter?

Thanks
Chris

 

[blackmonte]

I have the Cotton's stainless exhaust with the magnaflows , It is louder than the Hooker exhaust I had,and when I put the DP on it got even louder.So yes the Hooker exhaust is quieter.

 

[cchilly]

Thanks for the reply. I'm thinking the hooker exhaust and the DP is the way I might be going then.