Supermarket in S. Cali

[smokin'6]

Shopping at Albertsons this weekend showed me the ignorance of my fellow Californians. Here is a union that went on strike because they don't want to have to pay 5/wk for individual and 15/wk for family insurance! How many of you would love to pay that for yours? Mine runs 60/wk to cover my wife and I! And now I read of people struggling to get by with their budget, who are shopping at small markets and paying more for less to support these SOBs! And I surely don't want to hear about their union dues, ONLY in a union could you make 17/hr to ring up groceries On the good side, I got $210 worth of groceries for $135, strike on fools

 

[John Larkin]

Unions may have their place for protecting workers from unfair and unacceptable working conditions and practices. However, when their power grows to control the ability of the business to ensure profitability (ala US auto industry), it's just as bad as cancer; the business will eventually die. Don't think this hasn't played a part in the increase in overseas manufacturing. Quality of life is important to everyone but there ain't no guarantees to anyone.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

this kinda hits home territory-

currently im a operating engineer local 101 and have been getting full insurance for ZERO DOLLARS PER MONTH...

our contract comes up for negotiation this april 4 2004, DAMN STRAIGHT im going to fight it if they want us to pay, free insurance is part of the contract now and will be up for NEGOTIATIONS when the contract ends...
if they want us to start paying 120/month for insurance, then i want a 3 dollar raise

these guys are on strike cause they feel like they are not being respected and the bosses are wanting them to pay more for insurance- saving the COMPANY millions of dollars per year!!!

i can see the point of that, millions of dollars per year makes the company grow....
disgruntled employees will cost them billions of dollars, so they better make sure the contract is what the workers want, obviously it isnt or else they wouldnt be striking right???

well i just read it here, i guessed correctly, the contract is up for negotiation, and they have yet to find a equalibrium between the workers and the business owners.
i feel thats what a contract is, a happy medium of what the worker feels he is getting paid what he wants, and the bosses feel that they should have to pay and still make money in the long run...
if the contract gets altered and the worker feels cheated, then by god strike till they get what they want!!!!

http://www.forbes.com/work/newswire/2003/10/19/rtr1114326.html
and here in town,

http://www.kclabor.org/awg.htm

im not saying who is right or wrong, its all up to those people who work in that business to say where the lines are drawn, and what makes it FAIR for them to work under the CONTRACT conditions-



thanks for US calling blue collar workers FOOLS, what kind of work do you do?

BW

 

[TRBON8R]

I just got done loading up a cart of groceries from Albertsons. Screw 'em I say. Last time I checked slavery was abolished after the Civil War. If these people don't like the working conditions where they are then go get another job! Basically they are doing a job that any high school dropout could do, scanning groceries and collecting $15-$20 an hour with benefits! For the one's that complain about how they have too much time invested and can't do anything else I say tough! You shouldn't have invested so much time at a menial job where you could be easily replaced. I got laid off of my last job and instead of picketing I went out and started my own business! It is tough as hell, but at least I'm not under the thumb of some corporation, and most importantly I don't have to kiss anyone's ass. I determine my own fate and how much money I make. I've seen these boneheads on the picket lines. They aren't exactly MENSA members. Your average Del Taco employee could replace them at less than half the cost. Just my opinion. BTW, damn that Albertsons lemon meringue pie I bought today is looking good.........hmmmmmmmmm

I can't wait until Wal Mart comes here to So Cal and starts selling groceries through their Super Centers. It's BS when I go to Vegas to visit my dad and can buy the same products at Wal Mart for 1/3 less. And I'm supposed to feel sorry for these union people that are contributing to running up my grocery bill? It's not like they give a crap how much money I have to pay the vendor that supplies my business!

 

[GNSCOTT]

I think there is a little more to the story than that.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=182650

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

taken from the post GNSCOTT has given us, THANKS

"I am an employee of Ralphs Grocery Company and I love my job. I look forward to talking to you and I enjoy our conversations. I love that I have built a personal relationship with so many of you. That is one of the best things about my job.

I want to emphasize the fact that I am not on strike because I am unhappy with my pay or having to contribute to my benefits package. I am striking because the cuts and contributions that the company is asking of me would be of serious financial hardship. I know that I make a wonderful wage. I am not a "cry baby" nor am I "ungrateful" or "spoiled". Do you know that there are an average of only 5 full time employees in each store? Do you know that I don't find out my schedule for the following week until Friday (that is less than 48 hrs notice)? Do you know that I can be scheduled anywhere from 24 to 48 hrs a week? I never have a monetary amount to count on. My checks vary by several hundred dollars a week.

I work every weekend and I work on most holidays. I work in the middle of the night. I work at dinnertime and I work at 5 in the morning. I am here for you whenever my boss tells me to be. I miss dinner with my family, my kid's soccer games, taking my kids to school, picking them up, Monday night football... Sometimes I sleep all day so that I can stay up in the middle of the night to stock shelves, bake bread, cut meat, order product, change prices...

I am not complaining. I love my job. If I didn't I would not continue to give up very important parts of my life. I chose this career because it allows me to live a decent life. By no means do I live an extravagant lifestyle. I rent my house and I have credit card bills. I am a parent who thanks God for my medical benefits.

Please be aware that we have no problem giving the company $5/week for ourselves and $15/week for family members. We do have a problem with the $50 co-pay that we would be required to pay at the doctors office. We have a problem with the $100 emergency room fee. We have a problem with losing our vision and dental benefits. We have a problem with the minimum $50/month for prescriptions and $10 each there after. We have a problem with having to pay a minimum of $1000 if referred to a specialist. The list goes on.

Currently we pay $0 co-pays, $6 per prescription, $0 emergency room fee, $0 specialist fee, and we have decent dental coverage and $125 toward vision per year.

As far as pension is concerned, they want to cut it in half. Right now there is a golden 85 rule (you are eligible for retirement when your years worked plus your age = 85).
Not so under the new contract.

There are huge cuts proposed for all of the new hires as well. We all know that our pension is great. Keep in mind however, that is why you see the same faces in the store for so many years. We have chosen to make a career out of this business. How can you tell someone that after 20-30 years working for the same company that they are not going to get the retirement that they worked so hard for?

Keep in mind that the company has raised prices and made cuts in hours as well as across the board. We have not seen a cent of their increase in profits. We got a raise of less than a dollar during the last contract and the cost of living is skyrocketing in Southern California. We are willing to contribute to our medical benefits. However, the cuts they are asking for would devastate our plans for the future as well as lower our annual income by several thousand per year.

We make sacrifices for you on holidays and weekends. Something we were always willing to do because we NEED the money. We have families too. When you cross our picket line please remember that we are always here for you. Yes, it is our choice, however, there is a lot more to it than what the newspaper report. (Keep in mind that the Union Tribune broke their union last year, don't you think it's possible they are not supporting our union by not printing our request to refute the facts that Ralphs, Albertsons, and Vons have printed?) We remain faithful to you day in and day out so PLEASE support our cause by shopping anywhere but Ralphs, Vons, or Albertsons until our issues are resolved. We will forever be grateful for your loyalty.

Sincerely,

Lauren XXXXX"

 

[nisnutz]

I love it when union workers bitch and moan about how bad they get treated.I work in a non union shop now but used to work in a union shop years ago.The old shop was so screwed up that absolutely nothing ever got done.It was always thats not in my job description or I don't get paid for that.Funny thing is when it came time for a new contract those same lazy sob's cried and cried about how hard they work and about how nobody better make them pay for anything.Well guess what that shop just like many others just like it are gone.Companies are tired of having to pay 3 guys 30 bucks an hour to do the job the shop I'm in now pays one.Good riddence!!!

 

[myclone]

Originally posted by Quick6'n'-K.C.
taken from the post GNSCOTT has given us, THANKS

"I am an employee of Ralphs Grocery Company and I love my job. I look forward to talking to you and I enjoy our conversations. I love that I have built a personal relationship with so many of you. That is one of the best things about my job.

I want to emphasize the fact that I am not on strike because I am unhappy with my pay or having to contribute to my benefits package. I am striking because the cuts and contributions that the company is asking of me would be of serious financial hardship. I know that I make a wonderful wage. I am not a "cry baby" nor am I "ungrateful" or "spoiled". Do you know that there are an average of only 5 full time employees in each store? Do you know that I don't find out my schedule for the following week until Friday (that is less than 48 hrs notice)? Do you know that I can be scheduled anywhere from 24 to 48 hrs a week? I never have a monetary amount to count on. My checks vary by several hundred dollars a week.

I work every weekend and I work on most holidays. I work in the middle of the night. I work at dinnertime and I work at 5 in the morning. I am here for you whenever my boss tells me to be. I miss dinner with my family, my kid's soccer games, taking my kids to school, picking them up, Monday night football... Sometimes I sleep all day so that I can stay up in the middle of the night to stock shelves, bake bread, cut meat, order product, change prices...

I am not complaining. I love my job. If I didn't I would not continue to give up very important parts of my life. I chose this career because it allows me to live a decent life. By no means do I live an extravagant lifestyle. I rent my house and I have credit card bills. I am a parent who thanks God for my medical benefits.

Please be aware that we have no problem giving the company $5/week for ourselves and $15/week for family members. We do have a problem with the $50 co-pay that we would be required to pay at the doctors office. We have a problem with the $100 emergency room fee. We have a problem with losing our vision and dental benefits. We have a problem with the minimum $50/month for prescriptions and $10 each there after. We have a problem with having to pay a minimum of $1000 if referred to a specialist. The list goes on.

Currently we pay $0 co-pays, $6 per prescription, $0 emergency room fee, $0 specialist fee, and we have decent dental coverage and $125 toward vision per year.

As far as pension is concerned, they want to cut it in half. Right now there is a golden 85 rule (you are eligible for retirement when your years worked plus your age = 85).
Not so under the new contract.

There are huge cuts proposed for all of the new hires as well. We all know that our pension is great. Keep in mind however, that is why you see the same faces in the store for so many years. We have chosen to make a career out of this business. How can you tell someone that after 20-30 years working for the same company that they are not going to get the retirement that they worked so hard for?

Keep in mind that the company has raised prices and made cuts in hours as well as across the board. We have not seen a cent of their increase in profits. We got a raise of less than a dollar during the last contract and the cost of living is skyrocketing in Southern California. We are willing to contribute to our medical benefits. However, the cuts they are asking for would devastate our plans for the future as well as lower our annual income by several thousand per year.

We make sacrifices for you on holidays and weekends. Something we were always willing to do because we NEED the money. We have families too. When you cross our picket line please remember that we are always here for you. Yes, it is our choice, however, there is a lot more to it than what the newspaper report. (Keep in mind that the Union Tribune broke their union last year, don't you think it's possible they are not supporting our union by not printing our request to refute the facts that Ralphs, Albertsons, and Vons have printed?) We remain faithful to you day in and day out so PLEASE support our cause by shopping anywhere but Ralphs, Vons, or Albertsons until our issues are resolved. We will forever be grateful for your loyalty.

Sincerely,

Lauren XXXXX"

Hang in there brother and dont feel bad about fighting for what YOU know is right. Let the ppl show their true intelligence when they want to call union members "idiots" or "morons" when they only know half the story that the media feeds them.

A VERY proud and damn hard working member of Local 82162 IUE-CWA..

 

[2quiktocare]

John, you had a great point. Unions had their time, back at the begining of the industrial revolution. The unions are basically a cancer. Economist are saying due to global marketing, one of the Big three in will be broke within 10 to 15 years. This isn't because of cheap labor, it is because the pension plans the U.A.W. has such a fat retirement set up for these people that it is going to be close to 45% of the manufacturers projected labor cost. That is just plain sick and stupid. So, when everyone is upset that one of the Biggies is closing doors, Just remember it is brought to you by the mighty U.A.W. Funny thing is, the U.A.W.'s only concern is keeping these general laborers working at terribly inflated wages and benefits on the job so they can collect the monies for the dues and managing all that pension money. Just MHO. Mark

P.s. "my hands hurt from scannng so many items"ha ha ha

 

[GNSCOTT]

The bottom line is if the company treats its people right, they will not allow a union in there. There are many successful companies that are non union because they treat their emplyees fairly. No one want to shell out money to help fight their battles. If there are no battles to fight then you don't need a union.

 

[Racer X]

Hmmm, so I guess the working man should put his trust in the corporate execs like the ones at Enron and Worldcom to take care of them. I will concede that not all Unions handle their business right, but then not everyone understands Unions. I belong to the UBC and we haven't set up a line for the 18 years I have been a member. Why? Because both the Union and the Contractors recognized that it was in both their best interests to strike up a partnership rather than an adversarial relationship.

Through this, there was a period of 6 years where we went without a raise or media coverage about our whining, or lack thereof, because the market would not support a raise for us. When the economy was better we took our raise. I have a good pension coming and no one is going out of business because of it. Collective bargaining is the checks and balances against corporate greed. Let the business owners make all the money they can, but they will make more with a happy and healthy workforce. You start to take away from your labor force and they will get it back. They will steal materials, equipment, or even time by not being as productive as they can be.

There are a lot of great craftsmen out there that I know who would not speak on their own behalf to get paid what they should and the other side of the coin is there are some out there over paid. There is no perfect system.

I am not trying to change any minds here, only filling in some of the blanks

Racer "UBC 1506" X

 

[AirBuick]

This strike is a classic example of the average wage earner that always wants high wages for his labor but low costs for the items that he buys. This is in violation of fundamental economic laws. When an outside entity (union) has used its power to force the wages(including benefits) of general labor to above the replacement cost, you're going to have problems with the corporation. Did anyone ever calculate the true hourly rate that grocery stores have to pay someone to stand there and scan groceries? If their earning $18-22 per hour to do this, then by the time you add in all the benefits, it's probably closer to $30/hour! Scanning groceries is not worth $30/hour. WalMart has known this for years and continues to take away market share from any business that is following this faulty model.
I feel sorry for the strikers but they better be careful as they might be driving away customers forever and eventually end up enduring large permanent job cuts.

 

[Reggie West]

I have talked to a few of the people on strike and here is what I have learned.

No one makes $17 an hour at these stores. The highest wage is $12.50, they make $17 if they work OT.

How many people on this board can survive making $12.50 an hour. I know I certainly could not.

You are not considered a full time employee for the following quarter unless you work 96 hours in two consecutive weeks. Management knows this and uses part time people as much as possible.

Full time anywhere else in this country is 40 hours per week. These guys are working against a stacked deck from the start. Make it fair. These corporations are fully capable of negotiating a better deal with insurance companies( scurge of the earth) to make the rates affordable for the company and employees.

Health benefits. If the workers do not work the 96 hours they will not get medical benefits for the following quarter. If 70% of the workforce is part time I dont see where the company is taking such a massive hit for healthcare.

Do 2 things, set a modest co pay up for the employees to pay if they go to a doctor. I was also told they have placed very low spending caps on how much the insurance co will pay for any one employee.


Pension. The company wants to cut the pension in HALF. I would bet there are 2 reasons for this. One, given it is a union shop the company probably has to keep the pension fully funded at all times. This means they cant float a deficit like some do or did.


The biggest cause for all of this seems to be that all of this is in preparation for Wal Mart coming to southern CA. If they cant make money now what are they going to do when they do get here?

I get sick of hearing corporations crying the blues about how they cant make money. I have no sympathy for corporations trying to screw employees out of their money to try and make a buck.

There needs to be a happy medium for workers and empolyers so both need to compromise to make it work. However the corporation is the one that has to find a way to make money, not the employee taking a pay cut, lose benefits, and let the corp have the employees hard earned retirement to show a profit for a quarter. The corp can make better deals with suppliers, distributors, leases and so on.

It is called getting off your ass and finding a way to make money.

Oh and just so you know, I used to work for Roadway and I dealt with the Teamsters, I have worked for corporate America and you are just a number. They will pull anything they can get away with to make a buck.

And my minimum wage is $18 an hour.

 

[myclone]

Originally posted by Reggie West
I have talked to a few of the people on strike and here is what I have learned.

No one makes $17 an hour at these stores. The highest wage is $12.50, they make $17 if they work OT.

How many people on this board can survive making $12.50 an hour. I know I certainly could not.

You are not considered a full time employee for the following quarter unless you work 96 hours in two consecutive weeks. Management knows this and uses part time people as much as possible.

Full time anywhere else in this country is 40 hours per week. These guys are working against a stacked deck from the start. Make it fair. These corporations are fully capable of negotiating a better deal with insurance companies( scurge of the earth) to make the rates affordable for the company and employees.

Health benefits. If the workers do not work the 96 hours they will not get medical benefits for the following quarter. If 70% of the workforce is part time I dont see where the company is taking such a massive hit for healthcare.

Do 2 things, set a modest co pay up for the employees to pay if they go to a doctor. I was also told they have placed very low spending caps on how much the insurance co will pay for any one employee.


Pension. The company wants to cut the pension in HALF. I would bet there are 2 reasons for this. One, given it is a union shop the company probably has to keep the pension fully funded at all times. This means they cant float a deficit like some do or did.


The biggest cause for all of this seems to be that all of this is in preparation for Wal Mart coming to southern CA. If they cant make money now what are they going to do when they do get here?

I get sick of hearing corporations crying the blues about how they cant make money. I have no sympathy for corporations trying to screw employees out of their money to try and make a buck.

There needs to be a happy medium for workers and empolyers so both need to compromise to make it work. However the corporation is the one that has to find a way to make money, not the employee taking a pay cut, lose benefits, and let the corp have the employees hard earned retirement to show a profit for a quarter. The corp can make better deals with suppliers, distributors, leases and so on.

It is called getting off your ass and finding a way to make money.

Oh and just so you know, I used to work for Roadway and I dealt with the Teamsters, I have worked for corporate America and you are just a number. They will pull anything they can get away with to make a buck.

And my minimum wage is $18 an hour.

Very well said...

The rest of you ppl that think us union members are "idiots" or "morons" need to take a look at the big picture. As was mentioned if you think that a bunch of stock holders or executives are out for your best interest then you are sadly mistaken. When is the last time any typical corporate entity EVER gave the CEO or board of directors a pay cut? Im sorry but not taking the company jet for a trip to the Bahama's every weekend is NOT a pay cut IMO.

These same ppl that you put your trust in to take care of you have multiple ppl crunching numbers to find out out to squeeze every penny out of anyone or everyone that works for them. For what? Profit... Kroger as well as any other large corporation (the auto industry comes to mind) are NOT teetering on the brink of bankruptcy no matter how they would like you to think so. They are just like the company I work for which screams "we're losing money" every time the contract is up for negotiations or they want an excuse to squeeze the worker for more money.

So, I have absolutely NO mercy for ANY corporation be it domestic or not when I know that upper management makes more in a year than I'll make in a lifetime. I cant feel pity for someone who makes that kind of money but then spear heads an effort to squeeze the worker a little more in the name of profit. I bet the ceo never has to sweat where the money is coming from to pay that copay for a doctors visit or how they are going to help send their kids to college. That doesnt even take into consideration a major medical issue or long illness which would bankrupt most anyone I know in a matter of weeks or days.....and the whole time they want to increase the copays or ins cost!?!?! Whatever ...

I may be a proud union member but I will also admit it isnt perfect by any stretch but I have to ask who would you rather have looking out for you? A group of high paid individuals who would be more than happy to throw a little old lady off of a 10 story building if they could make a buck and not get caught or group of individuals that YOU the workers elect to represent you?

Another thing is that I will agree that the union will protect some workers who dont deserve it but...its built into the system. If you protect one you MUST protect them all to the same degree. I have ppl that I work with that I know in my heart did not deserve it but I still represented them as I knew sooner or later these same ppl would step across the line far enough that no union could protect them even if they wanted to.

So, before you think we're a bunch of "morons" or "idiots" for standing up for ourselves I would hope that you have enough sense to really check into the issue to see whats going on and not take what the media says as the complete and unbiased story.

 

[2quiktocare]

Corporate greed? How about the greed and illegalities of most organized labor unions? Morons and Idiots, I have yet to call anyone either.
The fact of the matter is, unions are basically extortionist. No matter how you look at it. They force their way into a work place, mandate wages and benefits, and then block customers from coming into those businesses when the union decides to twist the arms of the business again. 65% or better of union workers are Government employees. Corporate greed there? Hardly.
As far as the average grocery worker only making $12 an hour. That includes the 16 and 17 y/o kids working stock while in school. The average Checker is making over $18 an hour. That is a FACT supplied by the retail groceries clerk union themselves. So, if you feel that they need more money, fine, but don't bitch about the farmers, suppliers, and grocery stores for the increase in prices that will have to occur for this to happen.
What it all comes down to, is most everyone's jobs of a non-skilled basis have become so trite and mundane in nature, that in many cases a chimp cold handle it. We are going thru a metamorphosis in this country where non skilled labor is not going to be able to support itself the way it used to. We need to realize, just because you need more money, doesn't mean you can sit still at your current job and demand more. If you want to make more money, go out and shop yourself and see what you can get. If you can't get enough, then get training. It is sad to see people sitting back on their a$$es and demanding more money when they have done nothing to improve themselves.
My father and brother were both union stewards. Both worked their rear ends off every time the union decided to strike. My father literally worked himself to dead for his union, and after 23 years of devoted service, his union death benefits to my mom was $750. This is after he had personally paid in over $3500 to it, and the company contributed a $75,000 policy to his account. After my brother put close to a year of time into fighting the very union he so strongly supported it was found my mom should have received over $50,000 from the union and also the $75,000 from his company policy. The lawyer that handled this for us told us the union was famous for this. So, you tell me, who is screwing whom?
Give the store clerks a raise, I really don't care, but when prices go up, as they must, don't cry and whine about it as everyone always seems to do.
Mark

 

[turbo]

Just bet you'll get screwed by 90% of big business', maybe 10% won't. Whereas, 10% of unions might put the blocks to you and 90% won't.

I've never needed a union, but if they weren't around, the gap between the HAVES and HAVE-NOTS would be far greater than it is now!

 

[smokin'6]

abcnews.com recently ran an article saying that the average assembly line worker in Detroit made 47/hr!!. No wonder our economy is in the toilet and jobs are going overseas. People over there will work for a respectable amount while the SOBs here want 47/hr to bolt on a door!! Thank god for unions or the unskilled would have to work like the rest of us instead of making twice that. Saw a sticker on a truck the other day, said 'live well, work union' ... bout says it all!!

 

[Buick From Hell]

My views on "labor"...

If YOU knocked on THE COMPANY door LOOKING for a job, then THE COMANY has every right to pay & bennie you however they damn well see fit, period. If you don't like it, walk. You were LOOKING for a job when you found THAT one...

BUT--

If THE COMPANY seeks YOU out, and you leave other employment to work for THEM, that's a whole different ball game.

 

[SilverSleeper]

Dont even get me started...UFCW Local One 5 years here.

My company is also in that similar place as Albertsons, here in NY. We do find it tough to compete with Walmart.
I have been on both sides of this. I worked for walmart and I work in my company, which is a union shop.
Walmart treats its employees like crap. Why? Because they can. Some other person is always waiting for a job. You are only a number and nothing more. They could care less about those who work for their store because the turnover rate is so high. They kept telling us about their "open-door" policy on management. BS! Their door was open as long as no one was in the office! There are so many of the walmarts around here, that either you, or someone you know has worked for them at one point. They are a huge employer. They hire someone at minimum wage, then when the cost of keeping them goes up, the employee is gone and a new worker is hired at minimum wage.
Crap, I wished I made 12.50
Somehow I doubt the cashiers are making that. That sounds like assistant managers or dept managers type of wage.
I have been with my company for 5 years and make slightly less than that, but I do get extra for OT. Our cashiers start at 6.00/hr. And you get few benefits unless you are full time. I am lucky, I transferred to a new store, so we are safe for another couple years on our contract.
You guys that are so ignorant have to understand something. The grocery industry makes so little profit on things, that the company will cut any costs they can, any way they can. We have to have someone that will speak collectively for us, otherwise we wont be heard. Just this past weekend, my boss and I were arguing over a half hours worth of time I scheduled for my dept. Because it fell on a sunday, it meant OT. I mean, we are talking about less than 10 bucks. But it all adds up.
I have said it before. Unions have their place. Grocery is one of them. when you make so little, you cut any costs you can, and without a union, the employees are the easiest targets!!
As for protecting the lazy ones? Well, they have a chance to do what they are supposed to do, and if they dont work, they get canned. Its simple really. One guy came in late 3 times in a week, and got canned. The union basically said, "hey, you screwed up kid, we cant help you." If our cashiers dont meet certain standards, they are spoken to and are monitored. The union is fair. They mandate 16 hours a week. When the store gave people 32 hours one week, then 8 the next, the union stepped in and put a stop to it.
Im behind their strike. Last time our contract was up, they tried to do the same thing with our healthcare plan. We fought and kept it!
Proud hard-working member Local One UFCW!

 

[myclone]

Originally posted by 2quiktocare
Corporate greed? How about the greed and illegalities of most organized labor unions? Morons and Idiots, I have yet to call anyone either.

I will take it this post to be directed at me since Ive mentioned the moron/idiot thing each time. I would like to make it clear that my comments about those ppl who call us union members idiots/morons was not directed specifically at you but at those who did use those terms. My opologies if I didnt make that clear.

The fact of the matter is, unions are basically extortionist. No matter how you look at it. They force their way into a work place, mandate wages and benefits, and then block customers from coming into those businesses when the union decides to twist the arms of the business again. 65% or better of union workers are Government employees. Corporate greed there? Hardly.

I will have to disagree with you here.. EVERY union shop that I know of or have worked for was organized only after the workers themselves voted to become union. No one was forced. If union representation was not wanted then it was voted against, which Ive seen happen. If it was the workers there WANTED it.

As far as the average grocery worker only making $12 an hour. That includes the 16 and 17 y/o kids working stock while in school. The average Checker is making over $18 an hour. That is a FACT supplied by the retail groceries clerk union themselves. So, if you feel that they need more money, fine, but don't bitch about the farmers, suppliers, and grocery stores for the increase in prices that will have to occur for this to happen.

Personally I am MORE than willing to pay more for goods and services which are made by union workers and in general made in the USA. IMO its my patriotic duty to support my fellow countryman so that he/she has the opportunity for a quality of life that is better than 3rd world. Does it limit my choices at times? Sure, but I can look at myself in the mirror and know that I did what I felt was right to better my fellow worker in some small way. If enough ppl contribute then EVERYONE benefits not just the union man/woman.

What it all comes down to, is most everyone's jobs of a non-skilled basis have become so trite and mundane in nature, that in many cases a chimp cold handle it. We are going thru a metamorphosis in this country where non skilled labor is not going to be able to support itself the way it used to. We need to realize, just because you need more money, doesn't mean you can sit still at your current job and demand more. If you want to make more money, go out and shop yourself and see what you can get. If you can't get enough, then get training. It is sad to see people sitting back on their a$$es and demanding more money when they have done nothing to improve themselves.

I agree that if you want a better way of life then work for it and thats EXACTLY what I did. I am one of the highest paid ppl in my plant and I deserve every penny. I put myself through college, put myself through the required training to be a WELL qualified electronics tech, and to this day still pay on the student loans it took to do it. The ppl that dont want to do that will always be making less money than me at my facility and if they are content to do so then I dont fault them. On the other hand because someone doesnt have my qualifications are they less of a person? They will get sick just like me. Their kids will need glasses too. They will need a retirement package that lets them hopefully live above the poverty level if/when they retire. Granted they could have made more money by getting more education but that still is no guarentee they will get just compensation from a non union company.

My father and brother were both union stewards. Both worked their rear ends off every time the union decided to strike. My father literally worked himself to dead for his union, and after 23 years of devoted service, his union death benefits to my mom was $750. This is after he had personally paid in over $3500 to it, and the company contributed a $75,000 policy to his account. After my brother put close to a year of time into fighting the very union he so strongly supported it was found my mom should have received over $50,000 from the union and also the $75,000 from his company policy. The lawyer that handled this for us told us the union was famous for this. So, you tell me, who is screwing whom?

I have to say that I am truely sorry for what happened to your mother when your father passed away. I dont know the specifics but IMO there is deffinately an issue that needs to be looked into by the proper ppl. I can prolly speak for the union members I know and have known that my deepest sympothies go out to you and your mother for what she had to go through. The only thing I can offer personally is that not every local/union is perfect and things happen. I said it in the beginning that unions arent perfect and this looks to be the case here (prolly an understatement). I have also learned that just because a situation like this arrises dont brand the rest of us as extortionists or theives. As an example if a cop gives you a ticket for something you KNOW you didnt do then does that make all the other cops out there dishonest? IMO it doesnt but when injustices do occur we hope its an isolated incident at worst.

Give the store clerks a raise, I really don't care, but when prices go up, as they must, don't cry and whine about it as everyone always seems to do.
Mark

I think you are missing the real sticking point as to what the ppl are striking for Mark. Im sure they want a raise but the biggest issues seem to be health care and retirement (I havent checked into that as much as a should in this case but thats what I see). I know that our local struck this summer for 6 weeks. We didnt strike over our wages we struck over the company wanting to raise our health care costs to over tripple what it was. That ~$15 an hour doesnt seem like a lot when you suddenly have to pay $80+ a week for health care instead of ~$20 along with the fact the company wanted to remove the cap on health care costs. Our retirement is WAY below the local average at $17 per year served. We struck and ended up with a retirement of $25 per year served which is STILL below the local average but way better than it was.

In example: We had a lady retire last year with 37 years of faithful service. She gets $650 a month for retirement benefits.... In all honesty would you want to try to live off of $650 a month at an age where doctor visits and multiple medications are never ending cycle? Keep in mind that this was touted as "adequate" by a company that posted a several million dollar net profit last year. IMO that shows me just how much they could care less about the ppl.

Anyway, in closing I understand your distaste for unions due to what your family went through and I honestly wish I could help but I would hope that you can look past the situation and see that for the most part we arent bad ppl. We are ppl just like you that are fighting for what we believe we are worth.