Tested a BA Performance Intercooler today

[Otto J]

IF you read closer i mention the bad convertor,It was bad for both coolers not just one.When a convertor slips like the one in Jims car was you wont see any gains(maybe there will be none).This particular cooler was not TSM legal as it was 1 inch lower than the core support.The TSM versions are being made now,I dont see that the 1" will change any thing,But mayber it will.One thing that should be mentioned is that with the air being as cool as it was with the BA cooler i could have easily added a few more pounds of boost and a few degrees of timing safely.Something i would not have been as comfortable doing with a cooler having higher temps.
The reason it is possible to have a lower start then ending temp.While doing your burnout you will be heating the cooler.so when you launch the cooler would be a bit hotter,as you go down the 1/4 it wil go lower.I have tested 2 other large coolers on TSO car that showed a drop in temp after launch with just a slight increase in temp there after. I do expect to see some gain in temp with this unit on a car making more horsepower than Jim,My car will be finished shortly and there is already another one of these cooler on a TSO car,But he is waiting for his local tracks to ope so he can test it also.
Dont try and start a pissing match.I did not test this to compare it to a non camparable unit.This unit is thicker and taller than an other cooler available on the market today.If you feel that cooler inlet temps are not safer than hotter inlet temps i suggest you do a little research on why you run an intercooler.

 

[cdsttype]

Oh i have another question
how come only a 3 degree drop At 135mph
my current cooler drops 20 to 25 degrees
i would think the wind chill at 135 on a fiffty degree day would
have more effect.Unless maybe the flow is an issue?

 

[baadgn]

IF you read closer i mention the bad convertor,It was bad for both coolers not just one.When a convertor slips like the one in Jims car was you wont see any gains(maybe there will be none).This particular cooler was not TSM legal as it was 1 inch lower than the core support.The TSM versions are being made now,I dont see that the 1" will change any thing,But mayber it will.One thing that should be mentioned is that with the air being as cool as it was with the BA cooler i could have easily added a few more pounds of boost and a few degrees of timing safely.Something i would not have been as comfortable doing with a cooler having higher temps.
The reason it is possible to have a lower start then ending temp.While doing your burnout you will be heating the cooler.so when you launch the cooler would be a bit hotter,as you go down the 1/4 it wil go lower.I have tested 2 other large coolers on TSO car that showed a drop in temp after launch with just a slight increase in temp there after. I do expect to see some gain in temp with this unit on a car making more horsepower than Jim,My car will be finished shortly and there is already another one of these cooler on a TSO car,But he is waiting for his local tracks to ope so he can test it also.
Dont try and start a pissing match.I did not test this to compare it to a non camparable unit.This unit is thicker and taller than an other cooler available on the market today.If you feel that cooler inlet temps are not safer than hotter inlet temps i suggest you do a little research on why you run an intercooler.

Otto,

That intercooler sounds REAL promising I am not surprised at the temps that you saw my V3 is simliar I start the the run at one temp and by the end I am usally about 3-4 degrees hotter. Also you are right had you been able to tune for the lower temps it would have picked up. One thing I am curious about was how you measured the outside temp

 

[Otto J]

Oh i have another question
how come only a 3 degree drop At 135mph
my current cooler drops 20 to 25 degrees
i would think the wind chill at 135 on a fiffty degree day would
have more effect.Unless maybe the flow is an issue?

WHere does you current cooler start for temp? Almost outside temp?Id be hard pressed to believe it would go from 45* to 20*
Wind chill does not affect metals(do some research on this)Just because there is a windchill of minus 10* when its actually 20* doesnt mean that if you leave your car outside your water temp will be -10.Windchill only affect human skin.

 

[HighPSI]

I can post Screenshots or Data logs for ya.
Sully

Waiting

I'd like to hear from some of the engineering experts here if it's possible to end a run at a lower temp than you start.

I'm certainly not an engineering expert, but can tell you it is quite possible. If you look at the datalogs of MOST intercoolers, they wil drop temperature when you leave the line and then start climbing farther down the track. This is because the intake gets a little heat soaked after the burnout when the throttle is shut. Once you launch, the increased airflow cools the intake back down. The colder the day and better the intercooler, the farther down the track it takes for the temps to climb.

I haven't seen Jim's data, but I have logs from Reynolds (coldest place I run) that support this.

 

[Otto J]

Otto,

That intercooler sounds REAL promising I am not surprised at the temps that you saw my V3 is simliar I start the the run at one temp and by the end I am usally about 3-4 degrees hotter. Also you are right had you been able to tune for the lower temps it would have picked up. One thing I am curious about was how you measured the outside temp

This intercooler may be overkill in the cooling area,But that will never e a bad thing,THey also make a 4" version.But i would say for cars in the low 9 to 8 sec range this may be unit to run.As far as outside temps,Jims trustu General motors outside temp gauge and another member here had a temp meter reading outside air also.The sensor in Jims car i must say has to be a few degrees aout of calibration as it did seem to be colder at the end than our outside temp.But the big end of the track could have been a degree or so colder also

 

[Otto J]

Cal,You have been sent the logs

 

[V6 Beast]

Waiting

Sorry I have re-considered and decided to stay out of this pissing match. You can host them on your site if you want. Seems to me there is more at work here than MATs but everyone only wants to look at that 1 specific aspect so I am out of it.

S.

 

[cdsttype]

Are you trying to say the wind has no effect on cooling?
I have valid questions dont attack when you dont like what being asked.
i am a consumer in the buick communit and want to spend
my hard earned tsm dollars wisely.

 

[HighPSI]

Sorry I have re-considered and decided to stay out of this pissing match. You can host them on your site if you want. Seems to me there is more at work here than MATs but everyone only wants to look at that 1 specific aspect so I am out of it.

S.

Well, at least you got the data this time

 

[S2V6RACER]

Sorry I have re-considered and decided to stay out of this pissing match. You can host them on your site if you want. Seems to me there is more at work here than MATs but everyone only wants to look at that 1 specific aspect so I am out of it.

S.

The one only aspect that is undesputable is the difference in the MAT graph on the unit 1st tested vs. the BA unit. Any monkey with a banana in his hand could see that there is a different reaction to the 1 specific part resposible for removing charge air temperature. This was a same day same car test and enough data is derived to make a informed decision, which these guys have contributed more than some on the subject.

Sorry you can't see through the obvious.

 

[baadgn]

Are you trying to say the wind has no effect on cooling?
I have valid questions dont attack when you dont like what being asked.
i am a consumer in the buick communit and want to spend
my hard earned tsm dollars wisely.

Bill,

Wind does but not (wind chill) the intercooler will not get colder because of wind chill if its 50 out the surface temp of the intercooler will never see anything below 50 I don't care how fast your going. I don't think anybody is attacking you, you have a cottons intercooler and are asking if there is a better cooler out there I think otto tried to anwser that for you you have to admit those temps do sound good and its on a 10.00 car so your set up would work the same or better

 

[Otto J]

To answer you not needing to add fuel with cooler temps,The fast system does compensates for outside air temp.Go unplug your mat sensor and see what you a/f ratio does.Your temp reading goes to -5 degrees and the a/f gos straight to 9.5-1.Also there is no pissing match here Sully,This post was started about Th BA intercooler and nothing else. You were asked to post the logs from the BA.Nothing else.
Bill,I have not attacked you.I am answering your question to the best of my ability.

 

[JRSGN]

Sorry I have re-considered and decided to stay out of this pissing match. You can host them on your site if you want. Seems to me there is more at work here than MATs but everyone only wants to look at that 1 specific aspect so I am out of it.

S.

>>>Sup Sully,
I understand your point. But comparing these coolers WAS & IS NOT what we are doing. The BA I/C is thicker,Bigger & not TSM legal. I DO NOT WANT THIS TO TAKE A LEFT TURN.
I hope that everyone gets that. I also hope that anyone that knows me, knows my character & I do not lie to better myself or have a "AGENDA" I tell it like it is & will admit when I'm wrong. I may bust balls & make light of things but thats it.

I hope that all understand that.

Jim

 

[Otto J]

Bill please read this

The wind chill factor is the method used by weather forecasters to tell us how much colder the wind makes unprotected skin feel. So why do meteorologists say it's ‑10 with a wind chill factor that will make it feel more like ‑18? Why don't they just say it's ‑18?

The wind doesn't actually change the temperature outside, but the temperature we feel is not the air temperature but our skin temperature. A person will sense that it's colder because the wind steals body heat by blowing away warm air that surrounds the skin. This means the wind chill factor is not a factor for inanimate objects like rocks, cars and snow – they will all maintain the same temperatures no matter how strongly the winds blow.

 

[HighPSI]

Are you trying to say the wind has no effect on cooling?
I have valid questions dont attack when you dont like what being asked.
i am a consumer in the buick communit and want to spend
my hard earned tsm dollars wisely.

Bill,
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking. Yes, air across the intercooler will increase its cooling efficiency (that's why we made FRONT mounts).
I understand your hard earned TSM dollars don't come easy. That's why I suggested you keep the cooler you already have. If someone didn't currently have a intercooler, I would definitly consider a B/A unit. They have gone above and beyond to let people "try out' their intercooler.

 

[cdsttype]

lets ask the hard questions now.
If i dont pick up a tenth will they buy it back?
Dave b is so far ahead of the class we need
all the buy backs we can get.

 

[V6 Beast]

The one only aspect that is undesputable is the difference in the MAT graph on the unit 1st tested vs. the BA unit. Any monkey with a banana in his hand could see that there is a different reaction to the 1 specific part resposible for removing charge air temperature. This was a same day same car test and enough data is derived to make a informed decision, which these guys have contributed more than some on the subject.

Sorry you can't see through the obvious.

I try to stay out and you just won't let me. Yes the MATs were lower with this much larger, heavier IC. I am not disputing that fact. But I can tell you this for an absolute fact. When I run my car on a 90º degree day and then run the exact same setup on a 40º day, I get more than a .02 increase, fast changes the amount of fuel correction, Injector duty cycle changes considerably, and many other things happen. None of this happened on these runs and there has to be a reason why. So what may be obvious to someone narrow-minded and trying to prove a point about 1 specfic aspect of a car's tune, is not so obvious to someone that is looking at the big picture and doesn't have a personal agenda. :biggrin:

Sully


(Personally I would bet money that you couldn't take the car with either IC and make 3 runs that are less that .02 different)

 

[HighPSI]

Would any other vendor buy back their intercooler if it didn't meet their expectations? As for your question, that's up to B/A to answer. Everyone that I know of who has gotten one is quite happy with it.

 

[HighPSI]

Sully PM