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torque drive 700r4 drum

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chris718

Active Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2002
Messages
5,356
there is a listing on my site for a heavy duty input drum for the 700r4 that is made by torque drive engineering.now i am not a distributor for them because i cant purchase/sell 20 units a month.the company i buy them from for resale is a distributor for them.i got a call from torque drive engineering threatening to sue me for a patent infringement because i am stating the drum is reinforced,not claiming to make it or anything else.if a prospective buyer asks where it comes from i state it is from torque drive engineering.i removed it from my 700r4 competition components catalog and from the stage 2 700r4 description on my website.i failed to remove it from the 4l60e competition components and stage 2 catalog and now recieved this email from dan knots of the company stating:...CHRIS

WE HAVE FOUND YET ANOTHER PATEND INFRINGEMENT MATTER. YOUR COMPANY IS HANGING ON A VERY THIN LINE, WE DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS AN OVERSIGHT OR INTENTIONAL .YOU MUST REMOVE ON YOUR SITE UNDER GM4L60E COMPETITON COMPONENTS SUBJECT: THE DRUM IS REINFORCED AT THE INPUT SHAFT SPLINE AREA TO REDUCE CRACKING AND STRIPPING OF THE DRUM . REMOVE IMMEDIATELY !!!!! OR WE WILL BE FORCED TO HAVE THIS MATTER SOLVED IN COURT WHICH WE PROMISE TO BE VERY COSTLY TO YOUR COMPANY.

MR CHRIS IF WE HAVE ANY FUTURE PROBLEMS WITH YOUR COMPANY WE WILL IMMEDIATELY FILE A LAWSUIT AGIANST CK PERFORMANCE FOR PATEND INFRINGEMENT ..............
from torquedriveengin............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................do you believe this crap?i even sent them an email advising them that i would post pictures of the 3 units my customer broke if they didnt stop the bull.anyway here is the truth as i see it .the drum is no better than a new late design stock input shaft and drum assembly when used with a properly calibrated transmission.your money is better off well spent at the local gm dealer to buy the part.they designed it for gm but obviously it wasnt worth anything or general motors would have used it .according to a friend in gm powertrain it was never issued in any gm vehicle including the military or special vehicles programs to his knowledge.he even threatened to buy my parts and get patents and start producing them.i would appreciate all those who read his email to me to send him a message pertaining to this as you view the situation.you can find the info i posted on the drum on the 4l60e competition components and stage 2 pages on my website. this poor soul can be found at torquedriveengin on the web if you care to respond to his babbling.
 
patent infringment

i think that Dan knots been hitting the pipe long and hard. That certainly is no patent infringment i think that its a peep thats pissed off because you found a way around his ludicrous plan of selling 20 a month. You did not copy anyones patent and furthermore its him that will be in trouble for patent infringing on GM. Unfortunately i am one of those noobies that used that design that he so calls has a patent on and it took a crapper. So i really dont know why you would want to sell that piece of ****. all it really is. is a paper weight. Matter of fact calling his shop monday to get my money.
 
You know guys,
This is the main reason I won't build a 700 for anything but a stock/near stock application or a friend that understands that it will not live like other trannies will.

Has ANYONE come up with a REAL solution to the input drum problem of the 700's or is this BAND-AID the only thing going still?
 
Chris

I told you when we talked the other day. They are blowin smoke and I ALSO AGREE with you and your claim that it is no better than a stock one that has all the updates. I would call them on it if push comes to shove. There is no patent that I have been able to research and find so next time ask them for the trademark and/or patent number assigned to the product like what was given to me. I can tell you by the number if they are bull$hiting you or not. Simply ask them for their number given to them from the patent office and we will research it and see if they, in fact, are telling the truth , which I sincerly doubt. I have seen several trans' come in with this particular part and it was broken anyway. Just a crap design to begin with. It is one thing to do surgery and claim success when the patient lives, yet quite another when you put a band aid on the guy and he dies............

Good luck and I personally would ask for their application and acceptance letter and serial number. THAT is the TRUTH.

Ya know...................... ......................................................
............................................................................................?

If there is so much demand for this part and it is so expensive to redevelop, maybe WE (CK & PTS) should get together and split the cost and just do it right!!!!!!! SCREW THEM!!!! (Bet that statement just shocked the $hit out of some people) It is an idea to be pondered...:D

Later
Bruce
WE4
PTS XTREME
 
My 2 brother in laws are both patent lawyers in big firms in Chicago, If you get the patent #, Im pretty sure i can get the info.
Otto
 
we already have cnc programs for most of the 700r4 parts including an alloy drum with stock input shaft,drive tube ,etc.the problem has been lack of interest in an overgeared trans imo.my beef is threats about patent infringement when im selling their product,although buying thru an approved distributor.they have a listing for a patent pending etc if you go to their web site,but no specifics.if they were smart they would have been asking me how to improve sales instead of saying what they did.the guy made a mistake by picking on someone who has documented thru photographs 3 broken drums .this was to assure our money was refunded.not a pre cursor to a game we wanted to play,but seemed to be a smart move.as of 2 am last night i still was recieving e mails from the guy and i told him if i was him i would back up before i use my freedom of expression and put his broken part into a human aquarium for the whole internet world to view.
 
Emails were sent to my brothers in law ( no pun intended)
Otto
 
How's this:

Hello,
Wanted to ask a few questions about your patented drum assemblies.

I am contemplating building a 700-r4 for my 640 lb ft 500+ cubic inch 3900 lb daily driver.

You say you drum is good for over 600 lb ft of torque?

Also can you name vendors who use your parts in their builds.

Art Carr?
The "REAL" Art Carr of California Performance transmisions, not the junk in TX.

Bowtie Overdrives?

Performance Transmission Specialties ?

Century Trans (Mike Kurtz)?


If I use your drum in my build and it breaks what kind of warranty do you offer?
Do you replace any other damaged parts?
Pay to have my converter cut apart and cleaned?
Flush my cooler?
Tow bill?

Trying to determine if your drum is what it is advertised to be and if you will stand behind it.

I build performance GM automatics on a frequent basis although not professionally and am concerned about my rides reliability (80 miles one way to the local track) as well as my reputation with my "customers".

How does your sun shell compare to the "Beast shell" that is currently sold?

If it is proven stronger do you have lab results to verify this that I may view?

What labratory tested the torque capacity of the stock parts and were these used stock units or new GM parts?

Thanks in advance

Jake


This is what I emailed to ask about his drums...

We'll see what the answer is, if I get one.

Poor guy might be swimming in emails by now.
 
Hey Chris,

Tell this "bully" if he has a problem with you using his parts with you crediting them with building the part, that he has a problem with free enterprise period. If you use his parts, you can advise your customers that you are using those parts. Where is the patent enfringement there?
Before he sues you for something, he first has to inform you of such a violation. Has he yet to give you the patent numbers for which you are supposed to be breaking? If he had a true problem with you, the lawyer would have contacted you first, and I wouldn't even take the lawyer serious until he files papers.
This guy has no patent on this part period. You can't patent an existing patented part (GM holds the patents on all their parts designs) and he improved said part with an existing technology. This guy has done nothing to patent. If anything, GM could blow him out of the water for making false statements about holding patent on one of their parts.
It's all BS Chris, relax, have a beer, and chuckle loudly. Sounds like this guy is trying to shoot his own foot off. He doesn't want to have the free advertizing you give him on your website? What a knucklehead.
Hang in there Chris, you doing things right. Let this guy waste his money on making a fool of himself. Any judge in the country would laugh this guy out the door.



Mark :D :D :D :D :D
 
On a secondary note here,

To Chris, Bruce, Lonnie or others.

What is the approximate maximum torque capacity of one of your professionally built, best parts avaialble 700?

I rarely build these things because of the need to replace what seems like every piece in one, then the weak input, and the too low 1sr gear, as well as all the install changes necessary.]

I feel like I would be doing a guy a disservice for a car making real power and being driven hard (slicks).

I would rather tell him to use a 400 and a Gear vendors and NEVER worry about reliability.

Next option being a 4L80 and a stand alone puter, then a 200-4r with all the pieces.

All cost about the same.
Each with certain advantages,
200 being lighter, less power used, full auto with a brake possible, ease of install, etc..

But the question is,
where would you tell a guy you would not recommend a 700,
what HP/TQ, car weight?

I believe (if going in a car that will see the strip and slicks) about 450 honest lb ft, and 3200-3400 lbs...
So the typical small block powered smaller car (1st gen camaro, chevy II, lightened later model cars...) would be fine but a real heavy ride with slicks or a torquey BB...

What do the top builders in the country say?

Not the ones on Ebay that build ONLY 700's... and sell to whoever comes along..
 
I will not build a 700 thats tied to a strong mill. I shoe horn the little 2004R in the 700s place. Now the 4L60E I am not afraid of. I have them out there in 700 RWHP cars. I do use the Torque drive with good results in the 98 up 4L60E but I also agree a stock new drum is the best in the pre 98 4L60s and 700s.
 
Originally posted by chris718
how does by transbrake work in that th400?

Dont know. Finished it and put on a skid and sent down the road. No feed back yet.
 
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