TSM / Stroker Fuel System Build

[streetwavesauto]

Hey Everyone,

My car should be back from paint in the next 2 weeks or so. What are you guys doing for fuel? I few folks have mentioned going to a single high volume pump with larger lines going to the fuel rail. I have a new stock tank and would like to use it. I have seen the aeromotive kits and was wondering if anyone used them and liked em?

My motor is a Weber built 250ci and has a 236/236 cam. I plan to run a FAST XFI and would also like injector size recommendations.

Kind Regards,
Scott

 

[Eticket]

Scott,

This all depends on how fast you really want to go. Double pumpers can take you a long way and in many ways is much simpler (as you can buy a kit and don't have to replace any lines).

if you're shooting for 140mph trap speeds, than 83's and a DP system will be just fine. Believe Disco Stu had this setup.

More than that: 120lb injectors. I personally like the Magnafuel pumps. The "cheaper" inline series worked great in my car, was quieter than aeromotives' and didn't vapor lock on the road.

-8an (or -10an) to the rail and -6 return.

 

[forcefed3.8's]

A DP and 95lbs injectors have gone 150mph with stock fuel rails. At any level lower than that, I see no need to go through the trouble of new lines and an external pump. Stock fuel lines and a DP have gone 160mph. Keep it simple, and have less problems.

 

[streetwavesauto]

I have a Red's Double Pumper that came from James's car. It works and is in good shape. I got a set of 83lb injectors with it too that I was going to run. I just want to make sure that it is enough and is reliable. Is there any risk associated with the double pumper setup on a high hp application?

 

[Rell87]

I have the Magnafuel pumps... I like them. Haven't been to the track yet though.

 

[Eticket]

Scott,

The only "Risk" that you really have is that if one/both of the pumps gets weak or if the second pump doesn't come on - Either of which can cause a lean condition under power.

I wouldn't worry about it too much - except to make sure your wiring is spot on. Maybe have a way to jumper the second pump on - like a simple mytivac to the boost switch- before track sessions to make sure you have dual pump power.

If you're using James' old pumps - if they are old.. you might consider replacing them for peace of mind.

 

[KevinB]

Last year I ran both pumps at the same time all the time. I have a -8 feed and a -6 return. Don't know if that would work with the stock return line.

 

[streetwavesauto]

I like the idea of replacing both pumps for piece of mind and wiring them up to both run. I am going to do some more research and will let you all know what I decide to do.

 

[S2V6RACER]

Many have hurt motors running the double pumper setup. None of the faster cars out there run double pumpers. It's a problem waiting to happen. I would invest in a good street/race pump and deal with the noise. I have seen many melt down pistons scratching their head not knowing if the double pumper malfunctioned or other fueling issues cost them thousands.......

 

[SGRIM]

Many have hurt motors running the double pumper setup. None of the faster cars out there run double pumpers. It's a problem waiting to happen. I would invest in a good street/race pump and deal with the noise. I have seen many melt down pistons scratching their head not knowing if the double pumper malfunctioned or other fueling issues cost them thousands.......

+1

Go ahead and get a proper setup to start off with. If you are running doubles how do you know if one quits? Answer, you usually don't until it is too late:frown:

 

[jasjamz]

Many have hurt motors running the double pumper setup. None of the faster cars out there run double pumpers. It's a problem waiting to happen. I would invest in a good street/race pump and deal with the noise. I have seen many melt down pistons scratching their head not knowing if the double pumper malfunctioned or other fueling issues cost them thousands.......

Did you see the times in Kevinb's sig? Many have used the double pumpers with success. It was designed for those who wanted to use the stock lines and still be able to make serious power without sumps, loud external pumps, and larger lines. Most of the fastest cars use a ECU that will load the car with fuel if it goes lean. If you limit the amout of correction the ECU can do, it won't matter what pump you use since they all can fail.

 

[SGRIM]

I understand why using it, as for the reasons you stated... Especially if you want stock appearing...

However, if building a car for straight up race purpose it would be a little cheaper and safer IMO to go with an external pump. You can get them to work easily with an ecu setup.

My main concern has always been one of the two pumps failing. You can have a false reading all the way to WOT...

 

[KevinB]

Did you see the times in Kevinb's sig? Many have used the double pumpers with success. It was designed for those who wanted to use the stock lines and still be able to make serious power without sumps, loud external pumps, and larger lines. Most of the fastest cars use a ECU that will load the car with fuel if it goes lean. If you limit the amout of correction the ECU can do, it won't matter what pump you use since they all can fail.

I changed my setup for this year however. There is a local TSM car that went 150mph last year with a double pumper also...but he is changing his stuff this year too.
Last year I used a big Weldon for a little bit of time. My injector pw was in the mid-70's. Same setup, same tune, I went back to the double pumpers and the pw went to the low 90's. The Weldon I was using was an awesome pump but it was not meant for street driving. The double pumper worked great for both track and street. In fact, ran my best ET (in sig) with the double pumper. This year I upgraded to an Aeromotive Eliminator pump. Have not got the car running yet...hopefully in the next few weeks. After I bought the Eliminator, I found some info on it that scares me though. Looks like when it gets to 80psi (which I plan to only get to 74 or so), the flow really goes down. It goes down even more when the voltage drops. I'll start out slow at the track and slowly turn it up to make sure it's good enough. I just want a freaking pump that is rated for continual use and will supply 1000hp at 80psi safely. I have an older inline pump that I may use as a double with my new setup if the eliminator doesn't work.

 

[V8Assassin]

Many have hurt motors running the double pumper setup. None of the faster cars out there run double pumpers. It's a problem waiting to happen. I would invest in a good street/race pump and deal with the noise. I have seen many melt down pistons scratching their head not knowing if the double pumper malfunctioned or other fueling issues cost them thousands.......

Weldon 2015, -12 supply out of cell to pump, -10 to engine bay, split to two -8 to each rail and a -6 return. Not sure about the -6 return, may change just for peace of mind. Champion rails, 95lbers, and a weldon reg mounted where coil pack used to be. :biggrin:

If I lose power to the pump or something goes wrong, car shuts down!

 

[KevinB]

Weldon 2015, -12 supply out of cell to pump, -10 to engine bay, split to two -8 to each rail and a -6 return. Not sure about the -6 return, may change just for peace of mind. Champion rails, 95lbers, and a weldon reg mounted where coil pack used to be. :biggrin:

If I lose power to the pump or something goes wrong, car shuts down!

How did you set that up?

 

[V8Assassin]

How did you set that up?

No power to the pump, the car won't start or run. Relay in the trunk hooked to fast system.

 

[KevinB]

No power to the pump, the car won't start or run. Relay in the trunk hooked to fast system.

Oh, I thought you had it setup that if the fuel pressure goes down it will shut the car off.

 

[V8Assassin]

Oh, I thought you had it setup that if the fuel pressure goes down it will shut the car off.

No but that would be very cool, maybe one of our resident pine tree posse geniuses will figure that out. Obviously won't be me!! :biggrin:

 

[SGRIM]

No but that would be very cool, maybe one of our resident pine tree posse geniuses will figure that out. Obviously won't be me!! :biggrin:

You could do it with something to shut down at at certain #'s for sure...

 

[V8Assassin]

I changed my setup for this year however. There is a local TSM car that went 150mph last year with a double pumper also...but he is changing his stuff this year too.
Last year I used a big Weldon for a little bit of time. My injector pw was in the mid-70's. Same setup, same tune, I went back to the double pumpers and the pw went to the low 90's. The Weldon I was using was an awesome pump but it was not meant for street driving. The double pumper worked great for both track and street. In fact, ran my best ET (in sig) with the double pumper. This year I upgraded to an Aeromotive Eliminator pump. Have not got the car running yet...hopefully in the next few weeks. After I bought the Eliminator, I found some info on it that scares me though. Looks like when it gets to 80psi (which I plan to only get to 74 or so), the flow really goes down. It goes down even more when the voltage drops. I'll start out slow at the track and slowly turn it up to make sure it's good enough. I just want a freaking pump that is rated for continual use and will supply 1000hp at 80psi safely. I have an older inline pump that I may use as a double with my new setup if the eliminator doesn't work.

I've got a weldon controller that is supposed to let you run on the street with the 2015, basically cuts voltage on a volume control to keep the pump cool while street driving. We never hooked it up cause that would just be one more thing to go wrong while trying to compete in TSM this year!! Kev, you are welcome to try it out, I won't be using it till I build another car!!!