Tuning 101 11 sec car

[Razor]

Alrite..lets talk tuning on a turbo 3.8 and get the jist and strategies yall use to achieve the numbers.

First and foremost what are o2 curves your running with minimal detonation and throughout the run.Is it flat through 1st,2nd, 3rd..Or spiked up on first ..then tapers down through second..then finally leans out on the top end.What numbers ya shoot for through the traps. O2 wise and EGT's ?

Second is boost...how much boost ...and when do you know you have run too much ..crank up the boost and fp till it starts retarding or ???? Strategies using stock IC or Stretch IC's or FM's

Third...timing...is it the evil thing to add to a car running high doses of boost.How much do you run and why? And I'm asking this on a car capable of 120+ trap speed as a general...

Fourth..prep to motor for running..what engine temps you like to see while staging in the lights

Fifth..realistic, not hail mary winter pass with outside temps at 40 degrees ..how does your combo run in the summer.

well guys.. I hope this turns out to be informative

My car..23 lbs,18 degree chip,best performance when its under 160 when staging,still working on O2's...stock IC and a lot left in it.

12.059 @ 113.44 1.859 60 foot week ago..in the heat

 

[turbo buicks]

wats up razor. remeber me @ the car show a few weeks ago? i got the rough looking GN LOL fred (my friend w/the t type who runs 11.6) runs 22 psi+alky on his te 44 but im not too sure if he has a stock or upgraded stock location intercooler. he took me for a ride once and after like 20 mins of doing nothing but getting on it he said he was heading back home b/c he was getting some retard. dont know how much but i know the less the better. preferably 0 degrees. gnttype.org says anything under 6 degrees is fine but some other members might have differing opinions. the way i always thought it was done was turn up the boost then add fuel. i wouldnt add timing b/c it seems a lot of guys tend to get more retard w/higher timing chip imo

my "combo" so far has yielded a 15.01@97.1, cool night, 200 degree water temps, 10 psi, and gobs of anti-traction on Sears brand DR's LOL

 

[Razor]

Sears brand drag radials ..you know some folks claim theyre cars run 11.50's but they dont say things like 116 race gas,slicks,no interior,50 degrees outside,and did it once my favorite.

Come out to the track and work on that seat time deal..Let get that car into the 13 sec range pretty quickly..
I'm all about generating real numbers..not hail mary's and claiming the car runs that all day long.My car was running pretty consistent 12.10-12.20's that nite..

Timing isnt a bad deal..but that knock when your blowing 25 plus can be a bad thing..

So how much boost will get 125 mph?

 

[azgn]

it's not boost that determines how fast you will go.......some of the fastest cars run very low boost (Stage motored cars and heavily modified stock blocks) you run whatever boost will work with your combo and how hard you want to push it

the same applies to timing and many of the other tuning elements you mentioned.....for example, my car seems to like egt's in the high 1400 range whereas many cars like much higher temps.....you can debate high timing/high/low boost 'till the cows comw home and doubt you'll get much agreement

bottom line, you have to tune your combo to its optimum and nobody else will be quite the same

I would love to get some of that coastal or midwest racing weather here in Az.......the coolest air we ever race in is prolly in the 60's (in the dead of winter)

 

[turbo buicks]

i agree with you razor if someone asked me what i ran i would tell them both times in street trim and drag trim. b/c on the street you rarely see 50 degree temps (especially here in Tampa), you cant buy race gas here, running slicks is a bitch in the rain (which we have gotten a ton of lately) and a car w/no interior is ugly and uncomfortable. plus when you lose to a faster car in street trim they think they runs 10's when its really low 12's. i cant wait to get alky b/c i will save o2 sensors and its like running race gas. i will go to the track soon but first i got to get new fuel pump, injectors, and FPR and my dad wants to get the suspension checked out b/c things that the guy i bought it from said were new broke recently like the tranny. but i got that fixed but he just wants to make sure my car is safe. i know im somewhere in the 14's b/c i ran the 15.01 on 10 psi and now i run a solid 15 psi. ill keep ya updated on the car if you will do the same. once everything is sqaured away i would be happy to go to the track for some tuning. i hope to see you at the car show more often. feel free to drop me a line anytime

 

[Razor]

AZGN,
Thats the point of this thread..how did you figure what was best for you...hypothetically..lets say 18lbs of boost..all you can do with that number is drop fuel pressure to lean and make more power and play with timing..but truth be said there is only a limited amount of power that can be created at that boost level..or better yet..how did you know with all the variables in you particular case that/what boost number was rite for you.

Sorry to get personal ..just trying to learn from someone already there

So how did you figure your cars sweet spot for MPH..At what point did you say..this is starting to work.Did your car MPH 123 at high 1400's for egt's.I'm just trying to get some numbers from folks that been there done that

And depending on how well the engine breathes will determine how efficiently it makes power.So cam and heads will let ya run lower boost and make the same power cuase the engine has become more efficient.

Turbo buicks..come out to the track thursday nite..Bradenton Motorsport Park..I'll be there playing with boost

 

[turbo buicks]

ill see if i have to work but i dont think i do. what time? i cant run but i can watch b/c of what my dad said. he might want to go w/me. he told me about some vettes that were supposed to go on sunday but got rained out so they are going in august. he asked me if i wanted to go and i said "can i run" and he says no so i was like "no i dont want to go" but i would go to see you smoke some vettes. ill find out when in august they are going. ill let ya know if im going for sure by tomorrow probably.

 

[Razor]

Screw vettes..vipers are way more fun....

The vette event was last saturday.

If ya can make it great..if not no worries..

 

[azgn]

ok.....well, I tune using egt & knock (or lack thereof)

my chip tells me where to set my fuel pressure, and I don't vary from the recommended pressure

understand I run in open loop with a ME chip, so my setup is very much race oriented

I can vary the WOT fuel curve and boost.....so, I make a baseline run and determine where my egt is.....too hot, richen the fuel curve or lower boost...too cold, lean the fuel or raise boost

the better an engine breathes, generally the less boost you will need to make a given amount of power....my car makes right at 600 hp (flywheel) at 22-3 lbs boost and 1490 egt....it would make more power at higher boost & hotter egt, but I am not interested in joining the DOTC Club

I have two timing curves I can work with....I can set my 0-4000 (launch) fuel......I leave off a trans brake at 4000 rpm

does this help you any? I doubt it....you have to learn how to tune your car using some method, be it egt, WB 02, 02, knock, or what ever........what works for my car isn't gonna work for you

in simplest terms, using 02's, a correct WOT a/f ratio seems to be around the 750-780 mv 02....with no knock ......lots of things will affect this...boost, octane, timing, fuel pressure, cam, heads.....different on every car

you asked!

 

[Razor]

Thats more of what i'm talking about.Does it help..yes it does

See the only way info can be shared is if its asked for.My car when its at 1490 for egts usually puts my o2's in the lower 800 range and its "safe" cuase it doesnt knock.I find that egt's in the 1620 range yield about a 760 for O2's.And the car feels stronger at these numbers.But do understand when making a tremendous amount of power..you have to run safer numbers.Like the 1490 for egt's

And I think running 1490 the car being that rich will less likely detonate. 5 degrees of knock on a 300 hp motor is way different than 5 degrees when your at the 600 threshold.

I for one am glad to see someone making the bigger numbers running theyre combo safe..it gives something to look forward too.

Heres the real question AZGN,why did you stop at 22-23 lbs..was it your were happy at that level or was it fear of the DOTC .I guess you reached what you felt was your blocks limit and no need to go any further.Even tho that 45 could go to 30 psi easily.

 

[azgn]

the answer to your question is, a stock block (even with steel caps, which mine has) starts to be highly stressed at right around 600 hp

of course, my TE-45 could run 30 lbs boost and prolly make 700 hp......I just want my motor to last a bit longer........propelling a 3700 lb car to 125 mph in the 1/4 takes a lot of HP......it would prolly go 130, but not very many times with our air and altitude....

my car has 54,000 miles and all accesories work...it is still is "reasonably" streetable (ignoring things like a harsh ride, noisy multi clutch converter, 1,000 rpm idle, hard shifts, bad gas mileage, and an unuseable back seat because of the roll bar)

and you wanna run 30 psi??

(without the heads and cam, I prolly would run 30 psi and make the same power.....)

you get the picture

 

[turbo buicks]

i can go to Bradenton Thurs. my dad is going too and maybe a friend. what time are you going. want to meet up before and drive up or just meet up there @ a designated spot? my dad said the guys on www.corvetteforum.com told him the vette event last Sat. got rained out and they rescheduled. email me w/details. thanks,
Cory