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foxbody95

New Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2024
Messages
25
Hello, first time gn owner looking for some tuning help or a shop to go through some tuning on my new car. It’s a mild build on E85 and after driving the car for a few days I’m seeing a lot of kr?
Thank you in advance
 
Post the PL log and your SM numbers with the engine at operating temperature in Park.
 
Is this a V-sicks in your Moosetang, or?
A total lack of info on the vehicle won't promote responses.
 
Post the PL log and your SM numbers with the engine at operating temperature in Park.
I do not have a power logger but the sm data is
Maf 5
Lv8 39
Volts 13.4
Int 128
Blm 120
Coolant 163
Air temp 98.1
Rpm 860
TPS .46
Iac 12
O2 cc 120
 
Car info
 

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Where are you seeing KR in regard to RPM? At the shift points? I'm not an E85 guy but the 340 pump may not be enough as E85 requires more volume and possibly larger fuel lines. Something like the downpipe could be hitting the frame setting the knock gauge off. An E85 guy needs to step in here to inform you of your fueling requirements.
 
With a nice engine like that, it's an investment to get a power logger and a pressure transducer to monitor fuel pressure and a 3 bar MAP, a wideband isn't nessessary but is well worth it. A power logger setup like this takes so much guessing out of it, well worth the $$ and time.

I'm no E85 expert, but have been running it for a few years in my 86GN. I'd question that pumps ability to support anything north of 20 psi on E85 on a heads/cam engine. That single 340 would support a stock intrrnal engine on E85 to a certain point, but not a heads/cam engine, especially if your trying to make any decent power.

At what boost levels are you seeing knock?

I no longer run the stock fuel lines with E85, only because the stock lines in my car were in very rough shape. I believe the stock lines can feed the engine just fine on E85, but its the return line that becomes the issue when running fuel pumps large enough to support E85 and overwhelming the return line, not allowing pressure to drop to the desired base setting.

Id suggest staying out of the boost until you get the knock figured out, maybe its false knock, but if its not your going to damage that engine quick.
 
Fuel lines are GTG @ 8/6. The pump, maybe not so much.
Should have at least a 30% added flow capacity to cover the added fuel when on E85.
 
I have installed a wideband and the afr drops down in the 10’s -11 so I don’t believe it’s a lean condition. I have -8 -6 fuel lines already. I removed the knock sensor cleaned and retorqued to 14 ft lbs. replaced the plugs with Ngk ur6’s and am going to install a gauge on the windshield to watch fp. Nothing is hitting anywhere that I can see and I’ll start getting kr at around 10 psi just easing into it, a lot more if I stab it. I will order the power logger today if it’s beneficial
 
What is the history of the car and the engine? Did you recently acquire this car as it is, or did you build it? Was there always a knock issue or did it just start happening recently?

If your going to go through with the power logger, make sure to get a fuel pressure transducer and a 3 bar MAP sensor if you already don't have one. This will allow you to see/log boost and AFR which will provide far more info than watching gauges while driving. For example, you may have a lean spike, which is really hard to see when watching gauges, but very easy to see when logging. If your not familiar with these things, learning will take some time, but will result in a very good running car and learning a lot about your car along the way.

If your getting knock at 10 psi at a 10-11 AFR, it's probably not a fuel delivery issue from the pump. It could be false knock or knock caused by something else. The 50-60 degree air in the Midwest we have right now is great for these cars, you should not be seeing KR at a 10.6-11.0 AFR. On the street I target 10.5-10.8 AFR to keep it safe.

Who's chip is in the ECU? Have you tried to remove timing from the chip to see if the KR is reduced or goes away? Try this, it's an easy test.

How is your transmission? A weak and or slipping trans can cause false knock.

One poorly flowing (possibly plugged) injector can cause knock because one cylinder could be lean and your wideband is measuring the average AFR across all 6 cylinders. It only takes one lean cylinder to create knock.

How do the plugs look? Do they all appear even in color?

You mentioned UR6 plugs. What are they gapped at? If your on the stock ignition, you may need to gap them much tighter then what they come out of the box.

I have struggled with the stock ignition when pushing boost above 20 psi. I know stock ignition was great back in the day when real OEM parts were available, but now the aftermarket replacement coils and ignition modules for the OEM system seem to be mediocre at best. Finding a quality OEM AC Delco setup is difficult and expensive. I was getting a lot of KR that I couldn't track down and when I switched to a TR6 ignition it went away and the car ran much smoother and picked up top end power. Not saying this is your issue, but something to keep in the back of your mind down the road if you start to push the car harder.

Also, in my opinion, you will reach the limit of the 80 pound injectors and that single 340 pump on E85 way before you reach the potential of that head/cam/turbo combo. The amount of boost you can safely run will be limited until you have the fuel to feed that engine combination..... just something to keep in mind.

Also, here are a few things I have found that have caused me to see KR.
-Slipping trans
-Up/down shifts under heavy throttle can cause some KR.
-Cracked Spark Plug. (this could be real KR)
-A bad plug wire. (this could be real KR)
-Spinning of the rear tires. I see false a little knock when my drag radials get towards the end of their life from the tires spinning and me not realizing they are spinning. A fresh set of tires and that small amour of KR goes away.

As you can see the solution may take some testing to figure out.
 
What is the history of the car and the engine? Did you recently acquire this car as it is, or did you build it? Was there always a knock issue or did it just start happening recently?

If your going to go through with the power logger, make sure to get a fuel pressure transducer and a 3 bar MAP sensor if you already don't have one. This will allow you to see/log boost and AFR which will provide far more info than watching gauges while driving. For example, you may have a lean spike, which is really hard to see when watching gauges, but very easy to see when logging. If your not familiar with these things, learning will take some time, but will result in a very good running car and learning a lot about your car along the way.

If your getting knock at 10 psi at a 10-11 AFR, it's probably not a fuel delivery issue from the pump. It could be false knock or knock caused by something else. The 50-60 degree air in the Midwest we have right now is great for these cars, you should not be seeing KR at a 10.6-11.0 AFR. On the street I target 10.5-10.8 AFR to keep it safe.

Who's chip is in the ECU? Have you tried to remove timing from the chip to see if the KR is reduced or goes away? Try this, it's an easy test.

How is your transmission? A weak and or slipping trans can cause false knock.

One poorly flowing (possibly plugged) injector can cause knock because one cylinder could be lean and your wideband is measuring the average AFR across all 6 cylinders. It only takes one lean cylinder to create knock.

How do the plugs look? Do they all appear even in color?

You mentioned UR6 plugs. What are they gapped at? If your on the stock ignition, you may need to gap them much tighter then what they come out of the box.

I have struggled with the stock ignition when pushing boost above 20 psi. I know stock ignition was great back in the day when real OEM parts were available, but now the aftermarket replacement coils and ignition modules for the OEM system seem to be mediocre at best. Finding a quality OEM AC Delco setup is difficult and expensive. I was getting a lot of KR that I couldn't track down and when I switched to a TR6 ignition it went away and the car ran much smoother and picked up top end power. Not saying this is your issue, but something to keep in the back of your mind down the road if you start to push the car harder.

Also, in my opinion, you will reach the limit of the 80 pound injectors and that single 340 pump on E85 way before you reach the potential of that head/cam/turbo combo. The amount of boost you can safely run will be limited until you have the fuel to feed that engine combination..... just something to keep in mind.

Also, here are a few things I have found that have caused me to see KR.
-Slipping trans
-Up/down shifts under heavy throttle can cause some KR.
-Cracked Spark Plug. (this could be real KR)
-A bad plug wire. (this could be real KR)
-Spinning of the rear tires. I see false a little knock when my drag radials get towards the end of their life from the tires spinning and me not realizing they are spinning. A fresh set of tires and that small amour of KR goes away.

As you can see the solution may take some testing to figure out.
Bought the car last weekend as is, I drove it about 100 miles and ran great with no kr making 23 psi of boost. Then just started getting it. It has a turbo tweaks chip matched to e85 with the 80 pound injectors.

As far as removing timing I’m still learning the sm but went into lv8 - 3/4 settings and dropped the blm down to 110 that’s timing for all gears correct? Well it made no differences.

Transmission is built and shifts firm

I gapped the plugs to .026 and the previous owner suggested the coil is original I should try a new one so I ordered the factory ac delco.
 
Doesn’t E85 vary in percentage? Could you have put in less alcohol mix that's more prone for detonation?
 
Doesn’t E85 vary in percentage? Could you have put in less alcohol mix that's more prone for detonation?
I actually did notice it almost immediately after I filled up for the first time, but I tested the e85 and it came out at around e83
 
Doesn’t E85 vary in percentage? Could you have put in less alcohol mix that's more prone for detonation?
Some of our gas stations run E70 year around and still keep the E85 sticker on the pump. I try to avoid those and know where the gas stations are that run E85 that measures 85%. Even the ones that run true E85 switch to the winter blend of E70 starting December 1st and back to E85 April 1st.
 
The 2nd plug from the right looks to have some oil contamination on it. Do you know which cylinder that one came out of?

Keep an eye on that cylinder, the plugs should look very consistent and clean on E85.

You might have to remove the cover on the ECU to see which type of TurboTweak chip is in it. Eric offers a few different options like a 5.7, 6.1, ect.

If I remember right the adjustments between those two chips might be slightly different.
 
I’m pulling the new plugs out and doing a compression test on all the cylinders to see where I’m at
 

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Compression test came out at 145 for ever cylinder, the plugs all look consistent except for the bottom middle one on the ground strap a little bit
 

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