Turbo Buick FNG! Oh, Scanmaster data too...

[x96283]

Alright! First time I can make a substantial post!

First off, I'm new to the Turbo Buick world. Bought my car off this board back in March and transported it to Hawaii. There is a shortage of TRs to choose from on Oahu, so I knew I should "import" one. I'm trying to learn as much as I can and have been diving into the forum here almost nightly.

Car currently has 60k miles but don't let that fool ya-- appears to have been raced in a prior life. My overall goal is to establish reliability and safety baseline before performance improvements. I can only get 92 octane and looking down the road at an alky kit... well, the local methanol supplier is $84 per 5 gal can. Not exactly cheap. Denatured alcohol at HD/ Lowe's is $17 per gal too. Shoot, gas is 4.47/gal too!

So, here's a quick snapshot of the car as it is now. I'm ok replacing items with better quality parts (OE or aftermarket) either as preventive maint or during repairs. I can always add something to the shopping list if you see something that should be changed out. Cotton's gave the car a once over and the factory parts are still within spec (new fluids/ filters too). Trans upgrade is probably the largest item looming on the horizon.

Parts recap:
Stockish Engine refresh, 30 over build
204/214 flat tappet
Double roller timing chain
100lb Valvesprings
Basically stock trans, a little more stall I've been told
Garrett old school Stage 2 (58mm wheel) .82 housing
Ported Exhaust Elbow (GBodyParts)
Pypes exhaust with test pipe
Stock MAF/ 3-in Cotton's intake pipe/ K&N
Walboro 340
60lb inj
TT chip (from Cotton's... street #1 8523, v5.7 60#, 20`/18` 16-8psi)
Stock mod adjustable FPR to 43lb vac off as best I can see on the little rail gauge
Scanmaster

So far I've think it's been running ok... but then again, I'm new to turbo Buicks so what do I know?

Some data that I captured (love my phone's dictation app):
12 JUNE, at 2am (figured it would be as cool at it gets around here)
Cruise at 56mph
O2 675, 199, 794, 316, 203
AF 17-20
L8 53, 58, 60
BAT 13.3
INT 127, 135, 126, 134, 120, 133, 132, 125
BL 136
MPH 56
CLT 189
ATS 82
r 1775
TPS .94
IAC 47, 57, 53, 45, 48
cc 150, 186, 214, 240, 08, 31, 65, 81, 115, 132, 146, 161, 184, 209, 227, 242, 09
MAL none

Finished cruising and at hot idle
O2 824 839 835 820 816 835
AF 6
L8 41
BAT 13.4
INT 128
BL 133
MPH 0
CLT 187
ATS 112
r 825ish
TPS .44
IAC 5, 4
cc 91
MAL none

29 MAY, 3pm
cruise 55mph
O2 703
AF 18, 17
L8 41
BAT 13.2
INT 127
BL 134
MPH 55
CLT 184
ATS 93
r 1700
TPS .66 .64
IAC 57
cc 54 156 169 191
MAL none

Hot idle
O2 800
AF 07
L8 44
BAT 13.3
INT 128
BL 129
mph 0
CLT 193
ATS 126
r 825
TPS .40
IAC 25
cc 133
MAL none

I forgot to capture any WOT blasts, but generally speaking they are around 820 and no real KR. I think I need to apply throttle more smoothly. I think I'm seeing false KR (e.g., 0.7, 1.2) on shifts, shakes and bangs. A brief WOT blast on the highway shows no KR. Is it better to mat the pedal and run it from 1st to 3rd, or a smoothly applied rollon in 3rd? How long?

So looking ahead at my to do list...

To install (parts already on hand):
2 5/8 Autometer FP gauge via hood mount
Audible knock detector
Casper's FP hotwire
ACDelco Fuel filter

To buy:
Boost gauge. Been impossible to find a shop with inventory on island so I'll be ordering soon. Got my eye on a Sport Comp vac/ boost combo.

I feel that I'm still too "green" to interpret the data correctly and I don't want to chase numbers. However, BL seems on the high side, yet the O2 seems rich. I've been searching the forum a lot and making a punch list to check for vacuum leaks, but a quick check with carb spray didn't show anything. I hope to get it on a lift this week to poke around and I've also been looking for a shop with a smoke machine. Also, on my next fill up I will calculate some mpg data too.

Any comments? More specific data required?

Thanks much!
--matt

 

[earlbrown]

on your INTs and BLMS 128 means no change at all. You're not that far off. When you start to see them reading 110 or 160 that's when you're in trouble.

The O2s will be all over the place except for WOT. By design the computer is constantly adding and subtracting fuel to bounce back and forth over 14.7:1 A/F ratio. The CCs are designed to increase to 255 and start over during normal use.

 

[x96283]

Thanks Earl- I feel pretty good about BLMs since I've read that +- 10 off 128 is acceptable. It's the perfectionist side of me that wants to chase numbers and understand exactly what they are doing. The BL educational primer on gnttype has been a big help in understanding. Even with O2 mv... I'm used to watching the pretty lights dance in a narrowband gauge so just tracking numbers now in this car with a SM feels weird.

I listed out some parameters so we could see some of the trends and step increments being captured. I think cc had some good action, going up the scale in decent sized increments.

 

[broke]

You have a 160 degree thermostat in it? . Just seems a little warm.

 

[earlbrown]

the CC reading is how many times the O2 moved the fuel mixture above/below 14.7. The more active the O2 is, the larger the jump on the CC reading. and of course when it gets to 255 it starts over.

There's been many chasing the magic 128 across the board but it's just not possible. If the sun goes behind a cloud the computer will compensate for it a little. Air density can move all over the place depending on the conditions.

 

[x96283]

I've got a stock tstat in place and I've seen coolant in 190-203 range in traffic. I was debating a 160 degree, but had read "why change what the engineers had designed in the first place." Ad there are arguments about getting fluids up to temp to "burn off" impurities and things like that. Shoot, Honolulu's average temp is like 80 degrees so why can't I do a 160? 626GN recommended a coolant flush and some RMI too (but I have to find a source for that).

 

[87-WE2]

I've got a stock tstat in place and I've seen coolant in 190-203 range in traffic. I was debating a 160 degree, but had read "why change what the engineers had designed in the first place." Ad there are arguments about getting fluids up to temp to "burn off" impurities and things like that. Shoot, Honolulu's average temp is like 80 degrees so why can't I do a 160? 626GN recommended a coolant flush and some RMI too (but I have to find a source for that).

I believe arizonagn.com sells it. Nick Micale on the board here. SUPER knowledgeable and extremely helpful. Even patient with us newbies.

Need to pick some up myself.

 

[x96283]

I've been window shopping another goody list... 160 tstat, RJC plate, Accufab FPR, some motor mounts/ brace. The list never stops!

 

[x96283]

I've added some stuff over the past week so here's the running list:

• 204/214 flat tappet/ double roller timing chain
• 100lb Valvesprings
• Stock trans, a little more stall I've been told
• Garrett Stg 2 (58mm wheel) .82 housing (P/N 466748-5005)
• Ported Ex Elbow (GBodyParts)/ stock DP/ Pypes exhaust with test pipe
• RJC Power Plate/ Stock MAF/ 3-in Cotton's intake pipe/ K&N
• Walboro 340/ Casper's Hotwire/ 60lb inj/ GBodyParts Adj FPR @ 43 vac off
• TT chip (Cotton's: street #1 8523, v5.7 60#, 20`/18` 16-18psi)
• Casper's heated O2 and Casper's Volt Booster
• Scanmaster and Boost Gauge

Have swivel fittings for my hood mount FP gauge coming this weekend so soon I'll be able to actively monitor FP vs Boost. And once a spare water outlet comes in at O'Reilly's I'll be changing to 160 tstat along with RMI-25.

Today:
Scanmaster data still looks relatively the same as before. I reset FP, re-adj IAC and TPS. With a boost gauge I can finally see my boost levels and it appears to max out around 10-11psi. This is on 92 octane, stock IC. This afternoon's WOT was 804 mv and 0 KR.

Why am I not seeing any higher boost levels? I was reading about the boost solenoid (it might be in fail safe), going over vac lines (they look pretty intact) but I'm still trying to absorb info. Until today I felt that it wasn't boosting very high. Butt dyno says the cars feels like a low 14-sec ride and I guess 10psi confirms it. Last cars I've owned were a '13 Mustang GT, flashed 07 335i, '08 Cayman and a 450 rwhp 06 Mustang GT. They've all been "quick" cars and this just feels significantly slower... but I'm ok with that, because things will improve over time and we sort out issues.

I moved the actuator rod and it traveled freely back and forth. Do I need to pull the DP and watch the puck/ check for obstructions? I'm attaching a few pics so maybe someone can see something wrong.

I thought the chip would "command" higher boost... so I don't need an adj wastegate actuator right?

Is ambient temp/ heat soak an issue keeping me at 10psi?

Thanks!

 

[626gn]

The chip will not control boost. You need an adjustable wastegate or boost controller for that. Still, with the non-adjustable wastegate you have on the car now you should be seeing 12-15 psi. Double check your boost gauge hookup. When you say your actuator "traveled freely back and forth" are you saying there was little or no tension?

 

[x96283]

Yep- went out and redid the connection to the plastic tee and made sure there were no kinks. Tapped into the MAP line a few inches away from the hard line coming off the vac block. Ran behind the block for a bit, then entered the cab through the speedo cable grommet.

As for the actuator, there was a good amount of tension required to get it to move, but it does so freely and without any binding.

I just came back from Kapolei and did a few WOT tests. Still only showing 10-11psi in 2nd/ 3rd gear runs. It's pretty cool temps right now and the car was not heat soaked. 796mv and 0KR.

 

[626gn]

Hmmm. Another thing to check is your wastegate hose. If the plastic "y" restrictor isn't oriented correctly and/or if it isn't the right size, this could cause low boost. See attachment. I have the correct size y restrictor and hose if you want to try and swap it.

Could also be a problem with your solenoid. To isolate the problem you could pull the hose off the solenoid. Gotta keep a close eye on the boost gauge though because it can over boost and blow your head gasket! Just let off the gas if you hit 15 psi or so. That's all I can think of for now. Maybe some of the resident experts can chime in.

 

[626gn]

Read this http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com/basics.htm#Wastegate Solenoid

 

[x96283]

Hmmm, need to yank some hoses and see what happens then. I'll do that tomorrow if I can (got to pick wife up from airport).

I think my Y is in the correct orientation and you can kind of trace it in the pics above (grey piece). I will pull a hose and if I see over 12psi, then I know the solenoid is bad.

I'm also going to grab some heater hose as a stethoscope and check the ds header.

 

[TurboDave]

Hmmm. Another thing to check is your wastegate hose. If the plastic "y" restrictor isn't oriented correctly and/or if it isn't the right size, this could cause low boost. See attachment. I have the correct size y restrictor and hose if you want to try and swap it.

Could also be a problem with your solenoid. To isolate the problem you could pull the hose off the solenoid. Gotta keep a close eye on the boost gauge though because it can over boost and blow your head gasket! Just let off the gas if you hit 15 psi or so. That's all I can think of for now. Maybe some of the resident experts can chime in.

Only problem with that PDF form is that it's wrong. In these last 25+ years I've never seen a black T on any GN I've owned or worked on. They all are or have been grey. I've never been close enough to a TTA to tell what color they are, but GN's all have gray.

 

[x96283]

Dang. I had written a reply but I don't know where it went.

Anyway, I have the grey piece as seen in the pics above. I thought that the hose routing might be a possible issue, so I snapped some pics yesterday. I will pull it off and verify that the restrictor is in place.

 

[626gn]

Only problem with that PDF form is that it's wrong. In these last 25+ years I've never seen a black T on any GN I've owned or worked on. They all are or have been grey. I've never been close enough to a TTA to tell what color they are, but GN's all have gray.

Thanks for that clarification TurboDave. I didn't catch that grey/black discrepancy but was more for getting the orientation and size correct

Matt, once you resolve your boost issues and assuming your actuator is operating properly, I have the hardware to turn your non-adjustable rod into an adjustable. You will need a die set to thread the rod though. Best bet is to buy a new adjustable actuator but if you want to tinker with your stock unit you can have it.

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

Only problem with that PDF form is that it's wrong. In these last 25+ years I've never seen a black T on any GN I've owned or worked on. They all are or have been grey. I've never been close enough to a TTA to tell what color they are, but GN's all have gray.

Interesting, because with the GN, a gray one came in a box of parts. I figured that it was from a TTA.

And, I just measured the orifice at 0.023". A 0.0225 wire drill just passes through.

Picture of said Y, note the lack of barbs on the ends (scary):



RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[TurboDave]

Interesting, because with the GN, a gray one came in a box of parts. I figured that it was from a TTA.

And, I just measured the orifice at 0.023". A 0.0225 wire drill just passes through.

Picture of said Y, note the lack of barbs on the ends (scary):

View attachment 193683

Where did you find that one??? Certainly not OEM.

RemoveBeforeFlight

 

[RmvBfrFlght]

Where did you find that one??? Certainly not OEM.

In a box of parts that came with the car. There was an RJC valve for boost control on it when I got it. Maybe from a SY/TY or a turbo Diesel truck?

I've since modified a brass T connector with an 0.021" orifice and installed a GN waste gate solenoid. I want the boost under ECM control. Picture of said T:



RemoveBeforeFlight