Turbo Suggestion

[marleyskater420]

I agree with this also, but not to many members are familiar with Borg or Work yet,so the go to response is always Pte because they supported our community for so long and have big range of units, I personally don't even run a pte in my cars im partial to turbonetics but id like to try a few BorgWarner units in the future for sure!

I hear ya man.

Not to sound all cocky or whatever, but until we (RPS) came around, there wasn't really any pushing Borg Warner turbos, and definitely no one selling WORK custom units for the Buicks.

Sad part is that Reed, the owner of WORK turbo, has more experience building turbos, designing his own custom billet wheels and housings, and testing these units on Buicks that any other person/company that is offering turbos for the Buicks right now. And I mean any person.

Yet because no one has really heard of WORK turbos in the Buick V6 world, people don't give them a shot. In the turbo V8 world they are all over the place, and you can even see WORK turbos being one of the supporting sponsors at the end of Urban Hillbilly videos on Youtube-just search for "Urban Hillbilly Street Racing" or No Prep, and at the end of the video you will see WORK turbos as one of the sponsors of their videos....I say this to emphasize the point that WORK is out there winning races and kicking ass, but because no one has pushed their stuff until we at RPS came around, people don't realize just how much experience WORK really has.

I mean dude..their custom billet 6465 turbo just made 932awhp horsepower at the wheel...ON AN ALL-WHEEL-DRIVE DYNO!!! That is fucking nuts for a 64mm turbo!!!! If you figure the drivetrain loss for an all-wheel-drive car is between 25% - 30%, that means that the WORK 6465 turbo was pushing between 1,250-1,300hp at the crank on that Evo...that is just ridiculous...

For comparison purposes, Precision rates their Gen 2 CEA 6466 turbo at 900hp at the flywheel.....

Anyway, sorry for my rant...it gets frustrating sometimes because people are so resistant to change, or scared to try something new..but hey, to each their own!

I do hope that if you ever are in need of a Borg Warner, Garrett, or a custom WORK unit, that you hit us up and at least let us throw our hats in the ring and show you just how competitive the WORK turbo pricing is compared to the equivalent turbo from PTE...

Back to the OP's setup...

I still am of the opinion that if all he wants is mid 9s, good street manners, and to not have to push the car past 30psi, his Gen 2 CEA 6870 turbo will give him more flow than he will need.

Unless there is something seriously wrong with the OP's turbo that he hasn't mentioned, or I didn't catch, it makes absolutely zero sense for him to spend $2,600 on a brand new turbo other than him wanting to have the new "flavor of the week" and PTE's latest turbo release.

I see absolutely no reason, based on the parameters he set forth in his original post, that his 6870 will not suffice for his needs.

After re-reading his posts, it NOW makes sense why he is being told to buy the latest and greatest turbo...forget the fact their customer already has a turbo that will be more than sufficient for his needs, let's try to sell him something new at full price and get some more money out of him...

Fucking depressing that people get roped into this type of shit like the OP is going through.

Your money would be better spent getting an excellent aftermarket boost controller like an Eboost 2, Boost Leash, or an AMS 1000 if you can find one for a great deal (I can refer you to a reputable site where there is a barely-used AMS 1000 with wastegate solenoids for $475) than wasting your money on a new turbo. OR convert your turbo to a 4 bolt twin scroll housing, pick up some twin scroll 4 bolt headers, or have some made for you, and use those for your setup. You will see more of a gain in your car from a proper boost controller and a great set of headers that provide minimal backpressure while decrease the spool time so that you reach peak boost quicker.

 

[jmendlik]

You guys don't think the 7275 is too large of a turbo at all?

Maybe I'm crazy, but if you can reach 800whp or more with a smaller turbo that would spool faster...then why not do that?

My WORK 300SXE 69/73 with a 4 bolt twin scroll housing just laid down 950rwhp on a Buick with an engine similar to the OP's, and the turbo still had more room for power in it. Only reason the guys didn't make more power was because they ran out of injector.

Am I wrong to suggest a turbo like that, which costs about $1,600ish...which is over $1,000 LESS than the Precision?!

I know everyone loves PTE, but these Borg Warner/WORK turbos make some serious power for a whole lot LESS than a PTE turbo costs...

He is looking for a street driven turbo with 800+rwhp and the ability to clock off mid-9 second passes without going past 30psi, correct? I don't see how that WORK 69/73 would be a bad choice at all for him, especially with it costing over $1,000 less...

How much boost and what RPM was that 950HP made at??

 

[marleyskater420]

How much boost and what RPM was that 950HP made at??

I'll ask Reed on Monday for you.

Just to be clear, you are referring to the 932awhp that the Evo made, not the 950rwhp that was made on the Buick that the turbo still had another 6-8psi left in it?

 

[jmendlik]

I'll ask Reed on Monday for you.

Just to be clear, you are referring to the 932awhp that the Evo made, not the 950rwhp that was made on the Buick that the turbo still had another 6-8psi left in it?

This one: My WORK 300SXE 69/73 with a 4 bolt twin scroll housing just laid down 950rwhp on a Buick with an engine similar to the OP's, and the turbo still had more room for power in it. Only reason the guys didn't make more power was because they ran out of injector.

 

[marleyskater420]

This one: My WORK 300SXE 69/73 with a 4 bolt twin scroll housing just laid down 950rwhp on a Buick with an engine similar to the OP's, and the turbo still had more room for power in it. Only reason the guys didn't make more power was because they ran out of injector.

No problem my man! I have to call Reed on Monday to go over some turbo details for a customer, and I added your question to my list of stuff to ask Reed.

Once I get the answer I will post back for ya!

 

[forcefed3.8's]

There is more to it than the turbo. Without knowing the full cam specs, it is hard to say what it will make with a smaller turbine. The 70 turbine has a lot of back pressure in a 3 bolt application anyway and the wrong cam will not allow it to make power.
Dyno numbers mean little. Has this 950rwhp Buick with the 6973 ever been to the track? With that power, it should be in the 8.5@159 range.

 

[marleyskater420]

There is more to it than the turbo. Without knowing the full cam specs, it is hard to say what it will make with a smaller turbine. The 70 turbine has a lot of back pressure in a 3 bolt application anyway and the wrong cam will not allow it to make power.
Dyno numbers mean little. Has this 950rwhp Buick with the 6973 ever been to the track? With that power, it should be in the 8.5@159 range.

Even with the 70 turbine having a lot of back pressure, wouldn't some well flowing headers with an external wastegate aid in reducing the backpressure to the turbo? With the external gate that would alleviate the issue of the internal wastegate puck not flowing enough air to properly control the boost, and potentially help with reducing the backpressure by removing that potential bottleneck at the puck hole.

I agree dyno numbers mean very little. Just as cylinder head flow numbers mean very little, dyno numbers are merely there to give us a guideline to work against for tuning and a tool to measure any progress or regression with parts/tune/etc. Although I would say that cylinder head numbers would be fairly beneficial if they also included the port velocity as well...knowing the intake runner velocity coupled with the flow capabilities would be a helpful tool to use for porting/head work.

I will ask about the 6973 if they have been to the track/when they intend to go/etc when I ask Reed about the rpm and boost pressure as well. Once I find that out I'll also post it in here to let you guys know. I know I am curious, now that you have brought it up, as to what they have run at the track!

 

[Mr.Spool]

Even with the 70 turbine having a lot of back pressure, wouldn't some well flowing headers with an external wastegate aid in reducing the backpressure to the turbo? With the external gate that would alleviate the issue of the internal wastegate puck not flowing enough air to properly control the boost, and potentially help with reducing the backpressure by removing that potential bottleneck at the puck hole.

I agree dyno numbers mean very little. Just as cylinder head flow numbers mean very little, dyno numbers are merely there to give us a guideline to work against for tuning and a tool to measure any progress or regression with parts/tune/etc. Although I would say that cylinder head numbers would be fairly beneficial if they also included the port velocity as well...knowing the intake runner velocity coupled with the flow capabilities would be a helpful tool to use for porting/head work.

I will ask about the 6973 if they have been to the track/when they intend to go/etc when I ask Reed about the rpm and boost pressure as well. Once I find that out I'll also post it in here to let you guys know. I know I am curious, now that you have brought it up, as to what they have run at the track!

Most guys don't have their combo optimized to use these high flowing turbine wheels.this is why many chase their tail swapping parts and why some guys go faster on certain parts than others.what a turbo does or can really depends on the supporting mods and the tune.the 3 bolt is a great housing if your going to have the rpm range on the lower side anyone starts to spin their motors up and up like an import and you will hit component limitation fast.this is also the reason why rob is talking about the cam.to me building a high dollar motor that you don't need to run in a class should look to spin the rpm and have the components to support then people would see it's not their turbos but their approach to making power that holds them back.

 

[007gn]

I liked my 6766cea journal bearing Turbo better than the 6870cea S cover Turbo. The 6870 only made a little more power at 27 psi and above . I have since sold that Turbo & downpipe. I’m looking for real world Buick results. My car has 3:23 gears in the rear also right now on 275/60/15 pro drag radials . I really do push my car . I race my car foreal. Forcefed races so I gotta take his advice. The car 1.5s 60 ft ON THE STREET Rightnow off the footbrake. Now I need it to hit 145+ mph in 1/4 . So I need a Turbo to fit those needs & be fun driving around also. It’s not impossible bcoz my buddy’s 71 hpq runs low & mid 9s easily at 26 psi in 3bolt and still is capable of going faster. I know I’ll be running over 30 psi . Not a problem. And I don’t care about NAME BRANDS . I asked Mike at full throttle to look at everything available and he recommended the 7275 gen2 cea. I personally was scared of it thinking that it’ll be tooo big & spool slow . I was just gonna convert the 6870 to a 4bolt or Vband housing. So I’m gonna be pissed at Mike & all of you guys if my car isn’t fast as it should be. Thanks guys for all of your help & advice.

 

[marleyskater420]

I liked my 6766cea journal bearing Turbo better than the 6870cea S cover Turbo. The 6870 only made a little more power at 27 psi and above . I have since sold that Turbo & downpipe. I’m looking for real world Buick results. My car has 3:23 gears in the rear also right now on 275/60/15 pro drag radials . I really do push my car . I race my car foreal. Forcefed races so I gotta take his advice. The car 1.5s 60 ft ON THE STREET Rightnow off the footbrake. Now I need it to hit 145+ mph in 1/4 . So I need a Turbo to fit those needs & be fun driving around also. It’s not impossible bcoz my buddy’s 71 hpq runs low & mid 9s easily at 26 psi in 3bolt and still is capable of going faster. I know I’ll be running over 30 psi . Not a problem. And I don’t care about NAME BRANDS . I asked Mike at full throttle to look at everything available and he recommended the 7275 gen2 cea. I personally was scared of it thinking that it’ll be tooo big & spool slow . I was just gonna convert the 6870 to a 4bolt or Vband housing. So I’m gonna be pissed at Mike & all of you guys if my car isn’t fast as it should be. Thanks guys for all of your help & advice.

So you asked a guy that sells 1 brand of turbocharger, what type of turbocharger he recommends?



Yea that sounds like an honest opinion.

 

[broke]

.

 

[007gn]

So you asked a guy that sells 1 brand of turbocharger, what type of turbocharger he recommends?



Yea that sounds like an honest opinion.

Oh yeah I also forgot to mention that whatever Turbo I decide to get, that I’ll be getting the TURBO AT COST. I’m the person who decided to sale my 6870 S cover 3 bolt Turbo for $ 2000 bucks. And that Turbo was also sold to me AT COST. I don’t intentionally make jack-ass deals or hustle backwards. Again I’m not biased to any name brand. I just want the best Turbo for my car / application: Quickest thru the 1/4. Hopefully I’m not talking in circles & have a clear understanding with everyone. Thanks guys. I wander what BISON would recommend...

 

[marleyskater420]

Oh yeah I also forgot to mention that whatever Turbo I decide to get, that I’ll be getting the TURBO AT COST. I’m the person who decided to sale my 6870 S cover 3 bolt Turbo for $ 2000 bucks. And that Turbo was also sold to me AT COST. I don’t intentionally make jack-ass deals or hustle backwards. Again I’m not biased to any name brand. I just want the best Turbo for my car / application: Quickest thru the 1/4. Hopefully I’m not talking in circles & have a clear understanding with everyone. Thanks guys. I wander what BISON would recommend...

Just so I am understanding this correctly, you are saying that Full Throttle is selling you that PTE 7275 AT COST? Have you called around to verify that it is actually at dealer cost?

OR are you saying that whatever turbo you buy, you want the dealer to sell it to you at cost?

Either way, more power to you dude for being able to hustle and save yourself some serious cash!

I think most people in this thread already commented that your 6870 would have gotten the job done. Since that turbo is sold, I would think going with the smallest size turbo that would suit your needs would be the ideal candidate to help with spoolup while still providing you with the power you need.

I still say for mid-9's on a street car, any of these would work:
PTE GEN 2 CEA 6870
BW 69/68
BW 69/73
Garrett GTW 67/65
WORK 67/66
WORK 67/68
PTE 7275 CEA
PTE 7675 CEA regular or GT42 style

 

[Mr.Spool]

I liked my 6766cea journal bearing Turbo better than the 6870cea S cover Turbo. The 6870 only made a little more power at 27 psi and above . I have since sold that Turbo & downpipe. I’m looking for real world Buick results. My car has 3:23 gears in the rear also right now on 275/60/15 pro drag radials . I really do push my car . I race my car foreal. Forcefed races so I gotta take his advice. The car 1.5s 60 ft ON THE STREET Rightnow off the footbrake. Now I need it to hit 145+ mph in 1/4 . So I need a Turbo to fit those needs & be fun driving around also. It’s not impossible bcoz my buddy’s 71 hpq runs low & mid 9s easily at 26 psi in 3bolt and still is capable of going faster. I know I’ll be running over 30 psi . Not a problem. And I don’t care about NAME BRANDS . I asked Mike at full throttle to look at everything available and he recommended the 7275 gen2 cea. I personally was scared of it thinking that it’ll be tooo big & spool slow . I was just gonna convert the 6870 to a 4bolt or Vband housing. So I’m gonna be pissed at Mike & all of you guys if my car isn’t fast as it should be. Thanks guys for all of your help & advice.

Turbonetics hpc billet 69mm bb. I can spool it to 37psi in .5 sec off the footbrake no spray.it will and has hit that number and faster on the right combo.but I do feel there are several options from a lot of company's that will do what your wanting to do with the right setup.

 

[Mike Licht]

So you asked a guy that sells 1 brand of turbocharger, what type of turbocharger he recommends?



Yea that sounds like an honest opinion.

Wow Tyler I think you might be talking shit about me? Instead of the lies you are spreading and your obvious lack of knowledge. Let's set the record straight here - Work Turbo, I have known Reed for many years all the way back to when he was working for another turbo company that I worked with to bring a new turbo to the Buick World. Guess what I'm a dealer of his too, for a long time now in fact i just got some turbos he makes for us on a regular basis. Ever heard of Borg Warner? I'm a dealer. Ever heard of Jose at Forced inductions? Just got a couple 88's delivered and working with him on a new Buick deal too since he has a GN. Who was the first to put a 69SXE on a Buick? Me, I know what it will make, the 7275 will make more. Don't see the stuff on the website? I have hundreds of items not on there so save that argument. Before you make comments I suggest you get your FACTS correct and stop misleading the community.

 

[John Wilde]

So you asked a guy that sells 1 brand of turbocharger, what type of turbocharger he recommends?



Yea that sounds like an honest opinion.

I think our community is small enough that we don't have to slander each other.

 

[Kendall1214]

If you go with twin scroll headers and a 69/73 work turbo that thing will spool great! It’s based off the borg Warner 300sxe line which spool super fast and flow great numbers! PTE is a good brand but ya usually pay for the name! Lots of custom turbo sizes from work turbochargers! Although it’d cost a bit to change over to twin scroll! But the choices for a 4 bolt flange is excellent and usually cost less than the 3 bolt buick housing! If you’d like more info you could contact Tyler or myself, on one of works custom turbos!

 

[007gn]

Purchased/Ordered 7275 GEN2 CEA ball bearing .96 V band housing . I Hope it’ spools easily & is fun & responsive when driving .

 

[Mr.Spool]

Purchased/Ordered 7275 GEN2 CEA ball bearing .96 V band housing . I Hope it’ spools easily & is fun & responsive when driving .

If your unhappy with the spool of the 6870 why do you think going way bigger with a 72/75 is the way to go?i know that turbo really well and fun to drive is far from what I would call it.its not a very responsive turbo even on a v8.im not trying to be negative nor do I make any money with this post.

 

[007gn]

Well I have a 270ish motor now with a lot of compression & a camshaft with a lot of valve action goin on & I’m gonna try & run about 23-25 degrees of timing in 1st & 2nd gear & keep a/f at 11:1-11:4 in 1st & 2nd gear & I hope it’s fast & fun . Worse case Scenario I’m not afraid of using a 50 shot of oxide to get the party going wish me well and happy spoolong. Thanks