Turbo V6 Camaro

[86SS86LS]

That's exactly my line of thinking. Not everyone understands the preference to have less valuable stuff, but to me it's better in a lot of ways. There will always be a place in my heart for the GNs, but their value and desirability have outgrown my hobby. The smiles per dollar and hour of labor just don't add up anymore. Having a car like that in my possession feels like a liability rather than a play toy.

I have a lot of time for my feelings to get the best of me though. The GN has been one of my dream cars since I was a little kid. It may be hard to let those dreams go.........

I hate to be captain obvious here.........but why not sell your GN, pick up a solid roller or NA regal......and build your own 3800 powered turbo buick?

This is what I plan to do as time allows......I bought an 87 Turbo T roller a couple of years ago.....plan is junkyard l67, 4l80e, china turbo, e85......goal is maybe 400whp......just a reliable daily driver.

 

[dezldave961]

That'd pretty much cause him to undo/redo most of this work for no benefit. He's already got a fun turbo 3800 RWD running, so a chassis swap at this point doesn't gain much. Fbody's have a huge aftermarket, as well.

I've seen a few 3800 GN/etc. swaps, and that's also a cool project. 4L60e's can be built to take power, finally, if you want to keep the bellhousing and PCM simple with a 98 Fbody version.

 

[86SS86LS]

That'd pretty much cause him to undo/redo most of this work for no benefit. He's already got a fun turbo 3800 RWD running, so a chassis swap at this point doesn't gain much. Fbody's have a huge aftermarket, as well.

I've seen a few 3800 GN/etc. swaps, and that's also a cool project. 4L60e's can be built to take power, finally, if you want to keep the bellhousing and PCM simple with a 98 Fbody version.

I wouldn't tear apart the f-body either. He could build a 3800 GN/regal in addition to the f-body (I can't be the only one here with multiple projects going on at once?)

 

[dezldave961]

I wouldn't tear apart the f-body either. He could build a 3800 GN/regal in addition to the f-body (I can't be the only one here with multiple projects going on at once?)

Yes? ... (no )

 

[Jon Early]

Haha I tried to talk myself into that for a while, but I think the real issue is having two projects in the first place. I'm having a blast in my beater, and the biggest disappointment about it is needing to waste time time and money maintaining two old daily drivers and a GN that never hits the road. If I can get the car sold for more than I paid and find a good deal on a beater hot-air car or something I might change my mind. A L67 powered GN with a th400, big turbo, and everything else needed to run TSM would be pretty gnarly. I've seen that 3800s are legal in that class. I just don't know what they consider a "stock location exhaust header" when 3800s never came with a turbo. Regardless, I really want to see somebody go be competitive with their worthless production block, stock crank, stock caps, and no girdle. It should be very doable.

I'm dreaming though. I don't have that much time or money, and the cost of beater GNs still aren't exactly cheap. As much as I dislike F-bodies, part of my love for the build is never fearing to mess it up, get a scratch, or "ruin" a "nice car". The Camaro is trash, and I like it that way. I'd rather put the money toward a nice new truck and a vacation. Two garage spaces and three very needy cars isn't very good math anyway. lol

 

[Jon Early]

This is a big "we'll see" deal. I was in a rough mood last week. I probably won't be ready to sell the car in the spring. Who knows. I might even blow up the stock engine and make it worthless.

 

[dezldave961]

Oddly enough, I was looking to see if I could sneak into one of the classes in my 2004 Regal, but I think rulebook pages would catch fire while they flip thru to figure out why I couldn't be in there.

(maybe we both hunt down a chassis someday to play & win in such a tight sandbox... I've already been on a winning snowmobile vintage world championship team with a chassis that got banned ~10yrs ago when the midwest boys hosting the event didn't like us taking trophies home a few times )

 

[Jon Early]

Oddly enough, I was looking to see if I could sneak into one of the classes in my 2004 Regal, but I think rulebook pages would catch fire while they flip thru to figure out why I couldn't be in there.

(maybe we both hunt down a chassis someday to play & win in such a tight sandbox... I've already been on a winning snowmobile vintage world championship team with a chassis that got banned ~10yrs ago when the midwest boys hosting the event didn't like us taking trophies home a few times )

Haha If you find a loophole, I'd love to see it happen! These chassis restrictions are about the only reason I'd want to ditch the F-body. On the other hand, the chances of getting me to race at all are pretty slim. The chances of getting me to race more than one event (GS Nationals) are about 0. lol I love racing and track atmosphere, but I'm more of a spectator and a pleasure cruiser than a racer. Maybe my interests will change as I get more practice with the tree, but building a car for a class instead of my own interests just doesn't make sense right now. I just need to drop one or two of the other three projects!

I did sell my Pro5.0 short shifter for the T5 last night. $120 closer to that $2800 transmission! Baby steps!

 

[dezldave961]

True, I'd have to "downgrade" back to an A2A intercooler (should be great for hot-lapping runs on street/track) and hold back from some other upgrades I may go for.

Just go to some Test-n-Tunes and get on the track whenever you have a chance next season. I did that all the time in my GTP and had a blast, while also getting tons of experience with how it behaved, launched, benefitted from upgrades/tuning tweaks/etc. You also learn exactly how fast (or not) many common "sports cars" are in stock and bolt-on form, so you can confidently line-up while driving around town.

 

[Jon Early]

True, I'd have to "downgrade" back to an A2A intercooler (should be great for hot-lapping runs on street/track) and hold back from some other upgrades I may go for.

Just go to some Test-n-Tunes and get on the track whenever you have a chance next season. I did that all the time in my GTP and had a blast, while also getting tons of experience with how it behaved, launched, benefitted from upgrades/tuning tweaks/etc. You also learn exactly how fast (or not) many common "sports cars" are in stock and bolt-on form, so you can confidently line-up while driving around town.

I definitely need to find a better place to go. I usually go up to the Wednesday night test and tune at Lucas Oil Raceway, but it's so packed that I only get one or two passes in. In order to make two passes, you need to sacrifice the time to see any other car go down the track which sucks. There is a SUPER sketchy track a bit closer though. None of my friends ever want to go with me though. There are no guard rails, there's a river lining the outside of the right lane, the lanes are separated by a strip of grass (why though?), and of course there's no shutdown. 1320 made a video there once purely for the sketch factor... it didn't go well.

 

[dezldave961]

Sucks to hear. I had similar experiences at Milan near Detroit when I lived up there, but at least had some time cuz they took forever to get 500+ cars cycled thru. There was a decent backwoods track near Saginaw, but only went 1-2x.

We had a blast going to the Waterloo, IA track as the best option for Minneapolis-area folks and running nonstop, including my minibike for a hilarious 35mph pass.

Norwalk, OH was always a bit better, at least in '03-'06, at being a top tier track that kept things rolling. The Quad Cities track (Moline?) that hosted the last Grand Prix Gathering in '05 was crap, too (event where ZZP car was screwed with by a drunk MN clown, delaying their 1st 9sec pass a month and not for a crowd).

 

[Jon Early]

I never heard the story about the ZZP car. That sounds awful.

 

[dezldave961]

Check out ZZP's podcasts on YouTube, because they told the story in one of them. Only watch the ones where Matt & Zoom are on & actually talk 3800's, the rest of that crew is mostly unbearable cake-eaters ('Mighty Ducks' reference). They're already on their 2nd "host" in 2 years of trying to sink hooks in the new wave of 20-something clueless bolt-on buyers. Granted many of us in the early L67 crowd were kinda that way, but willingness to wrench and innovate was why we had so much variety in build options.

Edited.

 

[Jon Early]

Check out ZZP's podcasts on YouTube, because they told the story in one of them (only the ones where Matt & Zoom are on, the rest of that crew is mostly unbearable cake-eaters... Mighty Ducks reference... They're already on their 2nd "host" in 2 years of trying to sink hooks in the new wave of 20-something clueless bolt-on buyers).

hahaha! I have only ever seen one video with Zoom so I'll have to do some searching, but their videos about which cam, best mods for NA 3800s, which size exhaust and all that were pretty painful to watch. On the other hand, I'm sure they're sick and tired of answering those questions over and over again. If you want to get new customers you'll have to deal with noobs on the regular. Now they can just send a link. lol

 

[dezldave961]

True, but the way that Ryan dude delivers the info in such a condescending way does nothing to help their "We're here to help you spend money and get faster" image. It makes you ask who he is, then see he's just the guy who showed up in the last decade-ish when they chased the Cobalt crowd, and stuck around for a job (I'm sure the details are less interesting than that, even).

 

[Jon Early]

I got a sweet new bluetooth adapter for Christmas which makes my garage stereo worth using again. Therefore, motivation to keep working is back up. I cleaned the garage a little too which helped, but I don't want to do a deep clean until this particular job is finished. What job would that be?

...remember all that floor replacement I did a couple years ago? I never really finished. I got very tired of messing with it and didn't fix the sub-frame extensions. Now that I've built up my skills and patience a little, I decided to take another stab at it.
View attachment
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I'm finally ready to stop talking about (and tripping over) sub-frame connectors! Sadly this was as far as I could get before I ran out of gas. Before calling it quits, I shot the inside of the floor where I made a few plug welds with some paint. I'll probably finish this side tomorrow, but I think the difficult side is going to be the driver side. I have to remove the brake and fuel lines again. I have no regrets about putting this off. My welding was not too good when I did the floors. They still aren't great now, but they are much improved. I'd say there's a lot more at stake here too.

Once I'm done welding this side, I want to poke a drain hole in the new extension. With any hope it will let junk fall out instead of sitting there and rotting the car out again. Then I'll spray some Eastwood internal frame coating in the cavity and Rustoleum rubberized undercoating on the outside.

 

[Jon Early]

Sorry for neglecting this thread. I'm not about to to update it with every single little thing I've done since December, but I'll give you the cliff notes.

-Floors, lower front frame channels, and subframe connectors are all welded and DONE. I'm not touching the body on this for a long time.
-LS6 valve springs and YT 1.9:1 roller rockers. Roller rocker stands are made very poorly. Mine also squeak really bad. I don't recommend it, and I'll probably be going back to stock or modified stock rockers before driving the car again..
View attachment LogFile 7.dat
-Front and rear cover gaskets replaced, and realigned to hopefully fix coolant and oil leaks.

-New -12 drain bung and partial hard line for better drainage. The old one was very long and floppy with a questionable downward slope.

-Return of the GN style CAI
View attachment LogFile 4.dat
-Flywheel bolts upgraded to SR20 ARP stuff. I got tired of replacing the tiny TTY bolts.

-Custom made eccentric dowel pins for centering the 3rd gen bell housing.
View attachment Packaging_Standards_and_Requirements_May_2018_English.pdf

 

[Jon Early]

Best of all, I got this on Friday.

...and immediately modified it. lol

View attachment LogFile 4.dat

 

[Jon Early]

It turns out that the LS/LT HTOB kit is the way to go for a 3800/TKX conversion and not the SBC/BBC kit. Oh well. I made it work with Tilton's universal sleeve, a 1/4" -20 bolt, and a 1/4" - 20 union welded to one of my original flywheel bolts.

The TKX is only about 1/2" shorter than the T5, but the new yoke doesn't have a damper on it like the original. While I bought a yoke that's about 1/2" longer, the driveshaft looks mighty short. Here it is with the axle at full droop and fully rotated due to not having the torque arm installed. I hope it works well enough to blow up a 10 bolt first. lol

The fancy new crossmember needed an extension

Torque arm installed

Hydraulic bulkhead

Fourth gen flywheel cover modified for the third gen bell.

More to come

 

[Jon Early]

The shifter handle needed to be relocated to fit the console so I made a simple bracket for a cheap handle. The boot is a bit "custom" as well. This picture was actually taken after the first test drive. I was in the middle of rewiring a big portion of the dash which is a long story that I'll get to in a minute.

Ta da!

The only wiring that was necessary was making a conversion pigtail for the reverse lights. The GM style TKX is made with a GM style VSS, but a Ford style reverse switch. I don't understand that, but using the reverse switch from the T5 was not going to work either. Oh well. A Ford T5 reverse pigtail and a 2-pin female weather pack connector was easy to combine. I don't like cutting up original harnesses when I don't have to.

Besides a custom -4 hose and a speed bleeder for the slave, that's pretty much the conversion in a nutshell. It did take several ins and outs of the transmission to take care of some tweaks and issues, but I think it's ready for bang shifting.

Sadly, the engine was not. I started it up for the first time in months, and it ran pretty lean. I tried logging this with HP which greeted me with the same ground issue I had been battling on and off for months. Instead of trying to band aid it again, I decided to redo all that garbage.

so here's this picture again. The ground bus bar is super nice. By the time I finished wiring, it was full.

No, I didn't add nitrous, but nobody seems to make a decent blank switch panel for F-bodies. Right now the "arm" switch is for line lock, and the "heater" switch is for scramble....

Yes, scramble. I finally ditched the Autometer boost gauge and installed an AEM X-series boost controller to match my wide band. I'm excited to play with it, but for now it will only be used as a gauge until I get the bugs worked out under the hood. Having that scramble and over boost warning will be nice eventually though. I hated the Autometer's crappy nylon tube anyway. AEM just needs a traditional vacuum hose.

Before I even tried testing the HP Pro Link for functionality, I acted on a hunch. The car had been sitting with a vented tank for about 8 months. I think that's plenty of time for E85 to cause some trouble. As it turns out....

The ethanol caused hell on my rubber parts. I replaced the gooy rubber with viton for the MAP sensor pedestal, and I have some ethanol safe orings coming from Fuel Injection Connection. Meanwhile, my injectors were mailed to buddy who has an injector flow bench/cleaning station. I should be getting those back and doing burnouts next week.