Turbo V6 Camaro

[MCH86GN]

I'm afraid this project has come to a close. I knew this shell was completely roached, but I didn't think it was quite to this extent. After beating on the frame rails with a hammer a little bit....
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That'll do it!

For now I think the plan is to keep all the good parts I made, and scrap the rest. Maybe I'll find a nice roller to swap this unit into, but I think this is the end for the "LAME V6".

I very seriously doubt it the guy still have the 2000 Firebird, but I can check. If he still has it, it is garage kept, never driven in the winter, never driven in the rain unless the weather changed and it had drop top. It had 65k miles the last I looked. He wanted $6k for the car, which everyone told me was a ripoff, but given the condition it probably wasn't. I explained to him though, no matter how well kept the car was they just didn't retain their value.
As a matter of fact, the only way I would've bought the car would have been if I had a place to story it during the winter and rainy weather. Originally I was going to buy it and turbo charge it, but it was in such great shape I didn't want to ruin it.

I can also check around here in SE Michigan, if you'd like. I just got my exhaust fixed and rear window regulators on my 2000 Regal GS. coming home tonight. See how far I can take it with the Gen. V blower and other mods, then rebuilt 3800 goes in with a turbo.

 

[MCH86GN]

I'm afraid this project has come to a close. I knew this shell was completely roached, but I didn't think it was quite to this extent. After beating on the frame rails with a hammer a little bit....
View attachment 350041

View attachment 350042
That'll do it!

For now I think the plan is to keep all the good parts I made, and scrap the rest. Maybe I'll find a nice roller to swap this unit into, but I think this is the end for the "LAME V6".

What a bummer!

 

[Jon Early]

I appreciate the thought, but after some more poking around I decided to keep working on this car.

The thing is that the only reason I built an F-body at all was because of the sentimental attachment I had to THIS Camaro. I actually generally dislike fourth gen F-bodies, so even if swapping the body makes sense from a labor standpoint it would just ruin the whole vibe I had going here.

As corroded as it looks, further inspection with my bore scope revealed very solid mounting points for the K-member. I would also have very easy access to the rotted section if I removed the K-member.... See where I'm going with this yet? I probably won't be driving this car like I stole it this year, but I'm going to finish the floors, reinstall the interior, get my catch can system set-up, and maybe even build an exhaust.

Once I get everything the way I want it, I'll probably buy a tubular K-member and an L32. Then I can disassemble the entire front of the car, restore the engine bay including the rusty frame rail, and reinstall everything with nicer, newer, and stronger parts.

 

[Jon Early]

This picture makes it look like there's a big gap, but the piece isn't exactly where it will be once it's welded in. I'm pretty proud of this fitment for only forming it with a vice, hammer and channel locks!

 

[Jon Early]

I finally got to take a break from my Volvo headaches. I'm back to therapeutic garage activities.

I ran out of gas just before taking this pic. Holy crap though.... Since doing the other side, I have learned a lot. The angle grinder is a game changer, using the correct type of roloc pad instead of a wire wheel is a game changer, and using my step bit for drilling out spot welds is a game changer. Having the right tools for the job is always great. Now I kinda want to go to the other side of the car and correct my mistakes! I might as well. It's better than going back in there and doing it later. If I don't do it now that will be inevitable.

This simple air tool rack is also a game changer.

A lot of people don't understand my love for hanging tools on the wall rather than putting them in drawers. I just find this a lot more convenient. Besides, the walls aren't being used for much else! I'm also much more likely to put things away when I can easily see the open spot on the wall. When you have two 170k+ mile daily drivers a GN and a restoration/racecar project, and only a two-car garage you better have your stuff organized really well. Otherwise, every little job will make you want to rip your hair out! The garage itself is like a whole other hobby in itself. That's a whole other topic though.

Since I ran out of shielding gas and I wasn't tired yet, I decided to start putting the braking system back together.

Lol. Check out this rust hole that saved me from needing to reach my arm around the whole fender! Beaters for the win!

Right about here is where I wish that I had the engine out of the car. That would make the rest of this job sooo much easier. Oh well. I'll figure it out as always. I'm so glad I got all this done last night. I admit that I've been in an awful mood lately, but this small amount of progress turned me around.

 

[MCH86GN]

I finally got to take a break from my Volvo headaches. I'm back to therapeutic garage activities.
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View attachment 350408

I ran out of gas just before taking this pic. Holy crap though.... Since doing the other side, I have learned a lot. The angle grinder is a game changer, using the correct type of roloc pad instead of a wire wheel is a game changer, and using my step bit for drilling out spot welds is a game changer. Having the right tools for the job is always great. Now I kinda want to go to the other side of the car and correct my mistakes! I might as well. It's better than going back in there and doing it later. If I don't do it now that will be inevitable.

This simple air tool rack is also a game changer.
View attachment 350407
A lot of people don't understand my love for hanging tools on the wall rather than putting them in drawers. I just find this a lot more convenient. Besides, the walls aren't being used for much else! I'm also much more likely to put things away when I can easily see the open spot on the wall. When you have two 170k+ mile daily drivers a GN and a restoration/racecar project, and only a two-car garage you better have your stuff organized really well. Otherwise, every little job will make you want to rip your hair out! The garage itself is like a whole other hobby in itself. That's a whole other topic though.

Since I ran out of shielding gas and I wasn't tired yet, I decided to start putting the braking system back together.
View attachment 350410

View attachment 350411

Lol. Check out this rust hole that saved me from needing to reach my arm around the whole fender! Beaters for the win!
View attachment 350412

View attachment 350413

View attachment 350414
Right about here is where I wish that I had the engine out of the car. That would make the rest of this job sooo much easier. Oh well. I'll figure it out as always. I'm so glad I got all this done last night. I admit that I've been in an awful mood lately, but this small amount of progress turned me around.

I appreciate the thought, but after some more poking around I decided to keep working on this car.

The thing is that the only reason I built an F-body at all was because of the sentimental attachment I had to THIS Camaro. I actually generally dislike fourth gen F-bodies, so even if swapping the body makes sense from a labor standpoint it would just ruin the whole vibe I had going here.

As corroded as it looks, further inspection with my bore scope revealed very solid mounting points for the K-member. I would also have very easy access to the rotted section if I removed the K-member.... See where I'm going with this yet? I probably won't be driving this car like I stole it this year, but I'm going to finish the floors, reinstall the interior, get my catch can system set-up, and maybe even build an exhaust.

Once I get everything the way I want it, I'll probably buy a tubular K-member and an L32. Then I can disassemble the entire front of the car, restore the engine bay including the rusty frame rail, and reinstall everything with nicer, newer, and stronger parts.

I hear ya.
Interestingly enough, when I had my exhaust fixed there was a guy who wanted to buy my car and I could've made about $2000 off it, but I got it and decided to keep it. Believe it or not, I had a chance to sale I didn't and now issues are cropping up. The power steering went out on it, whether the issue was there or not before I got the car the rear defrost doesn't work. All 4 tires are dry rotted. Now my wife is beating me over the head, but it's will be a labor of love for me. I can actually drive it back and forth to work. There is only so much I can do with my GN, because I'm afraid of damaging and it stays in the garage 8 months out of the year. Overall the car is nice and the work it needs for the most part I can do. When I decide to go to a turbo setup, I want to find a low mileage L32 block. I'm not sure how much difference it makes if you're going to be replacing the internals, if I even need to look for a low mileage block. I already have an L67 machined with ARP main studs just waiting to be built. The block did have 262k miles on it though.

 

[Jon Early]

Somebody gets it!

I love my GN the same way, but I need something that I can beat on without remorse! Unfortunately, that does sometimes come at the cost of other headaches. I'm good with it though. I've learned so much along the way, and I still have a lot left to do.

Rust patching gets old quick when you have as many issue areas as I do, so I took a brake from the car for a bit. I'm back now though! The passenger side of the car is done, but before continuing on to another section of the car I decided to take care of the brakes. Having a roller with no brakes is very inconvenient with my lack of space and sloped driveway!

It's not pretty, but it will do.

I'm amazed at how easily the brake lines came apart from the hoses considering the amount of rust there is everywhere else. lol

Here's an expensive tool I got years ago and never had a chance to use until last night. Is it worth the money? Probably not to most hobbyists. However, I must say that it made straightening this coil extremely easy.

I removed all the old lines, wire wheeled and encapsulated the rusty hose brackets, and ordered new hoses. The SJM line lock kit is nice, and I'm sure it would be really simple to install as is. However, I can't get myself to follow directions. lol

The system is already open and I know that the front lines are rusty enough to give me issues in the near future. The line lock kit uses compression unions and tees to tie everything together under the hood. I don't necessarily have a problem with that, but I see unions as an opportunity for leaks. I might as well bend extend the line I already need to make in a way that I won't need a union. Then I can take this another step further... Why put the tee under the hood when it would be better suited under the floor? Again, the system is open and I'm already bending custom lines. Let's make this kit better than it was ever intended to be!

I love opening big cans of worms, don't i?

 

[Jon Early]

I'm back at it! After finding out that I had to have an unexpected mouth surgery, I took a little break from the car to sort out more important things. I planned on having this entire weekend for recovery. Nonetheless, I got all the brake plumbing done!

I wish I could be jumping for joy, and moving on to other things, but cars don't usually go THAT smoothly.

This sucker is leaky! Part of the problem is that SJM uses double flare components in their line lock kit which is to be expected. I'm not blaming them for the leaks. It's my own fault, but I hate double flares and their ridiculously tiny 3/16" flare nuts. Sure you can get them tight, but how on earth are you supposed to crack them loose again after years or driving? Whatever. I got everything much tighter than I like, but its sealed now. Time to bleed.

SIKE!

Sorry it's out of focus, but you can probably see that there's brake fluid running down my booster despite installing a NEW not remanned AC Delco master cylinder. I was fuming because this is not the first time that this has happened to me. My new vacuum master leaked when I converted my GN too. Remembering this made me start to believe that nobody knows how to build a master cylinder even though our lives depend on it when we get behind the wheel. Therefore, I decided to throw the original back on. Why not? It worked fine. I bench bled it, threw it back on, and started bleeding the system again. Guess what?

Same problem. I've heard of this happening on old master cylinders. They only use such a short part of the travel when they're in use, so when you go to bench bleed them again the seals get torn. I'm not happy about it, but I'm not surprised either. I'm going to Napa today since they have an "Ultra Gold" in stock. Hopefully I'll be able to put this behind me tonight!

 

[Jon Early]

I've been neglecting TurboBuick. Sorry! I'm bummed about not being able to go to a GS Nationals this year, but what makes me even more upset is that I will not be able to go to the event in 2021 either.... my sister's wedding is that weekend. This isn't going to stop me from building this car up as tough as I can.

Brakes are done, and dual catch cans are in place.

Most people can't even tell that a passenger side can is in there. I hid it pretty well behind the ECM.

I also found and repaired an issue I didn't know I had. Although I had the PCV valve sealed shut, there is apparently another completely separate passage that goes from the throttle body, to the intake, and down to the crankcase. Not only is this a massive vacuum leak (when my valve cover breather was installed) it was a huge boost leak and seal blower as well! I guess I didn't need two massive catch cans afterall.

I just put a little pipe plug in there and called it good.

Done with this rust repair nonsense!

I haven't seen the car with the carpet installed in about two years!

Oil contamination and driving on an improperly bled clutch master for a couple weeks resulted in wasting my clutch in just 3000 miles.

I don't think that clutch was adequate anyway. Time to upgrade.

 

[Jon Early]

This big turd is ready to roll!

https://imgur.com/FJKf6JZ

I have not put any parts on this car that would make it go faster other than fixing the PCV system, but the quality of everything has improved drastically! It's so much nicer drive without exhaust and oil vapors coming through rust holes. The interior dampened a lot of the noise as well. Even though the car still has an open downpipe, a conversation between driver and passenger is actually possible now.

 

[fast86gn]

Very nice Jon! Sounds good just get Ray Regal on FB to make you some Camaro Power 6 logo's for the fenders that will confuse the hell out of everyone. lol

 

[Jon Early]

Haha I actually have my Aeroforce gauge displaying the tri-shields as soon as it turns on. Sure, it's still a Chevy. It has the heart and soul of a much nicer car though!

 

[MCH86GN]

Very nice Jon! Sounds good just get Ray Regal on FB to make you some Camaro Power 6 logo's for the fenders that will confuse the hell out of everyone. lol

That's pretty damn funny. I've driving my Regal GS a some here lately. I'm trying to wait out the current situation before I get the hood painted or clear coated. Damn the engine is do smooth to have 178k miles.

Not to hijack Jon's thread, but my GN engine builder said maybe next fall I can take my car to his pole barn and he'll fabricate the parts to turbo charge the engine. The supercharger is nice but I want more power. My engine builder can also build my trans stronger, but I read I could swap in a Volkswagon FWD transmission and it can handle the additional hp and torque. If there are guys running 8.5x I should be able to get down to the 10s, but I don't know if the stock trans no matter how well built, will allow that kind of power. The power steering pump was fine, the f'ng idiot that checked it, didn't check the correct fluid.

Stay healthy guys.

 

[fast86gn]

So Charles I guess you and Jon will be out terrorizing the neighborhoods now? LOL

I have been wanting to get my GN out the last few weekends and it has been nothing but rain.

 

[Jon Early]

So Charles I guess you and Jon will be out terrorizing the neighborhoods now? LOL

I have been wanting to get my GN out the last few weekends and it has been nothing but rain.

Maybe terrorizing the streets with L36 shrapnel! I'm still scared to push it. The car is running strong. However, I've yet to give it the beans, and I've seen as high as 5 degrees of KR in 3rd. I've never tuned anything, but this stimulus check allowed me to spring for HP Tuners Pro! I'm either going to go fast, or throw a rod into the Gulf of Mexico.

 

[Jon Early]

That's pretty damn funny. I've driving my Regal GS a some here lately. I'm trying to wait out the current situation before I get the hood painted or clear coated. Damn the engine is do smooth to have 178k miles.

Not to hijack Jon's thread, but my GN engine builder said maybe next fall I can take my car to his pole barn and he'll fabricate the parts to turbo charge the engine. The supercharger is nice but I want more power. My engine builder can also build my trans stronger, but I read I could swap in a Volkswagon FWD transmission and it can handle the additional hp and torque. If there are guys running 8.5x I should be able to get down to the 10s, but I don't know if the stock trans no matter how well built, will allow that kind of power. The power steering pump was fine, the f'ng idiot that checked it, didn't check the correct fluid.

Stay healthy guys.

Hold up.... VW trans? How? That sounds extremely involved, but these cars certainly need stronger automatic solutions that are better than the 4T80e.

 

[dezldave961]

Hold up.... VW trans? How? That sounds extremely involved, but these cars certainly need stronger automatic solutions that are better than the 4T80e.

The GM Racing chain/diff and 300m/etc. shafts in my 4T65e were an absolute must, among anybody running stronger than 12's and not wanting issues in the long-run.

Good luck with the VW parts, but it's all theoretical until it gets in a 2x heavier car with power & torque those cars don't need for single-digits. The guys running 8's are purely vendor-built, gutted, max-effort racecars from the prime era these cars had 15-20yrs ago. Personal cars with strong turbo setups (or the very rare supercharger) take alot of unadvertised extras to get into 10's and make it home regularly (heads/cam/valvetrain, fueling/tuning, traction tweaks/launching practice, etc.). Anybody can get there with the effort and time, just as people do with other platforms, it just takes learning the in's & out's of these things as you start maxxing out OEM parts and electronics.

Jon, feel free to share the "joys" of tuning as you get going there. Let me know if there's anything you want to bounce off myself and the other Series 2/3 folks. I'll be re-installing my DHP PowrTuner software on this newer laptop so I can use my offline programmer cable to get my file ready, too.

 

[Jon Early]

Well said. There really is no transmission made to hold all this power and lug the mammoth W/H-bodies by the front wheels. I often forget how heavy those suckers are. As much as I dig a well done and high powered L67 car, I never wanted to deal with all the issues surrounding the the amazing engine. lol I actually dislike F-bodies quite a bit, but they're much easier to get the most out of the engine inside.

Thanks for offering the tuning advise. I'm going to have to hold off on trying anything for a bit though. ZZP accidentally sent me the regular HP kit instead of the Pro. That's a $250 option, so I will absolutely be sending this back.

 

[Jon Early]

This stay-at-home stuff has given me nothing but time, so I decided to try something fancy for the roll control wiring. The kit by SJM is pretty crappy anyways. Vampire crimps are unacceptable. Plus, my car having so few options opened up a lot of free space in the fuse block. Why add separate holders?

I got a GM specific depinning tool.

but first had to remove the terminal keys.

Removed the partially unused power strip...

...and found a suitible terminal from ebay to add to the fuse block. It is a Metri-Pack 280 series PN: 12129493.

This is my poorly drawn plan.

These crimpers are expensive but they are a must for making connections like these. It's worth every penny!

Then just shove those terminals up where they need to go until they lock into place!

Put the keys back in place as an extra measure for keeping those terminals in place, drop the fuse block back into place, run your wires, and you have a very factory looking electrical job.

 

[Jon Early]

I needed to drill another hole for these wires, since the driver side pass through is filled with some sort of weather tight resin. I'm adventurous to tap into the fuse block, but I'm not pulling the entire wire harness just to avoid drilling a tiny hole!

I'd like to make some nicer labels eventually, but this will do for now.

On to the inside! I'll update as soon as I get my parts from Summit.