workingdan
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- Jan 2, 2007
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looking to get a new turbo and ic. Im thinking bbturbo and a front mount. looking at my signature what should I buy?
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workingdan
Member
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- Jan 2, 2007
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No body has an opionion on what turbo I should go with??
- Joined
- May 26, 2001
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This might get long winded, but here goes.
Honestly, it really depends on what your goals are. There are so many choices out there today, and sure, we can see your combo, but in order to really narrow down the choices we need to know your goals with the car.
Here are a few that I like and why.
TA-49:
Stock appearing turbo that is capable of pushing a full weight car into the mid 11's, but the boost will have to be turned up to get there. Works with injectors sized from 36# Blue tops, all the way up to 60# Mototrons. Will work with a stock torque converter, but really likes a converter that will stall to 3000 at zero psi. Stock or heavy duty wastegate actuator with no special bracket required will bolt on. From Precision, it comes with a .63 A/R PTE turbine housing. From Limit Engineering it typically comes with a .63 A/R Garrett turbine housing and from T-netics it comes with a .63 A/R T-netics turbine housing. Factory heat shield and oil lines are bolt on. Can support 545 flywheel hp when maxed out. (28-29psi) But the heat created by the compressor wheel and compressor cover combo when run that high is tremendous.
TE-44:
Has a non stock appearing TO4E style compressor cover. Meaning it has an integral inlet bell. Same compressor wheel and turbine wheel as the TA-49 but can support about 15 more flywheel hp than the 49 can because of the more efficient compressor cover.From Limit Engineering it typically comes with a .63 A/R Garrett turbine housing and from T-netics it comes with a .63 A/R T-netics turbine housing. Same torque converter requirements, same fuel injector requirements. Will need a special bracket welded to either a standard or heavy duty actuator for proper orientation and operation. 560 flywheel hp capability at 28-29psi.
TE-60:
A true work horse of a turbo. Looks identical to a TE-44 from all outward appearances. Only difference is the compressor wheel, which is the old T series 60-1 compressor wheel. This turbo is available in journal bearing or dual ball bearing cartridges in Garrett form. (Precision & Limit Engineering) and single ball bearing from T-netics. From Precision it comes with a PTE .63 A/R turbine hosuing, from Limit Engineering it comes with a .63 A/R Garrett turbine housing and from T-netics it comes with a .63 A/R T-netics turbine housing. Must run a converter that will stall to 3000 at zero psi to properly spool it up. Same wastegate actuator requirements as the TE-44, and for that matter, any turbo that uses the TO4E style compressor cover. (3" inlet, 2" discharge compressor cover with a .60 A/R) 580 flywheel hp capability and has pushed full weight cars into the low 11's with high boost levels. Recommend 42.5# to 60# injectors for this turbo.
Precision PT61 family: (aka GT6131, GT6152E, GT6131BB)
This turbo was specifically made for cars wanting to run mid to low 11s without having to max the boost out. All of the 61mm turbos from PTE and Limit Engineering feature the Garrett GT series 61mm compressor wheel that is used in the GT35R turbo.
TurboByGarrett.com - Catalog
Depending on turbine wheel, it has a hp rating of 600 - 680. It is available with 3 different compressor covers (TO4E, TO4S and Ported shroud TO4S covers) and 3 different turbine wheels. (T31, T350 and P-trim) As well as being available in either journal bearing or dual ball bearing center cartridges.
PT6131E(GT6131E) is a journal bearing 6131E turbo. It has the 61mm compressor wheel and the T31 Stage 3 turbine wheel. Comes with the TO4E compressor cover and typically comes with a Precision .63 A/R turbine housing with an option for a .85 A/R turbine housing. (Note: .85 A/R not recommended on stock cars unless you are running a very loose converter.) Same wastegate actuator requirements as the TE-44. Although a stock D5 torque converter will spool it up, it really responds best to a converter that will stall to 3200 at zero psi. It has a 600 flywheel hp capability and is best suited for 12.00 - 11.50 cars. Recommend 42.5# to 60# injectors for this turbo.
PT6131RE (GT6131BB) Same specs as it's 6131E cousin but features the Garrett dual ball bearing cartridge. No stall upgrade needed. Same wastegate actuator requirements as the TE-44. It has a 600 flywheel hp capability and is best suited for 12.00 - 11.50 cars. Recommend 42.5# to 60# injectors for this turbo.
PT6152E (GT6152E) is a journal bearing 6152E turbo. It has the 61mm compressor wheel and a T350 Stage 5 turbine wheel. Comes with the TO4E compressor cover and typically comes with a Precision .63 A/R turbine housing with an option for a .85 A/R turbine housing. (Note: .85 A/R not recommended on stock cars unless you are running a very loose converter.) Same wastegate actuator requirements as the TE-44. It requires a 3200 at zero psi stall converter to spool it quickly. And has a 630 flywheel hp rating. Best suited for 11.80 - 11.20 cars.
PT6152S This is a journal bearing 6152 turbo with the larger TO4S series compressor cover. (4" inlet, 2.5" discharge) It has the 61mm compressor wheel and a T350 Stage 5 turbine wheel. It comes with a Precision .63 A/R turbine housing with an option for a .85 A/R turbine housing. (Note: .85 A/R not recommended on stock cars unless you are running a very loose converter.) It requires a special adapter bracket to be used with either a stock spring wastegate actuator or a heavy duty wastegate actuator to bolt up properly. Precision custom makes a CNC adapter bracket for this and other turbos that come with the TO4S cover. It also requires a 3200 at zero psi stall converter to spool it quickly and will support up to 650 flywheel hp when maxed out. The high hp rating comes from running a larger compressor cover. The charge temps at high boost levels are also lower with this compressor cover than the standard E cover. Best suited for 11.50 - 11 teen cars. 50# - 60# injectors are recommended.
PT6152SP Same specs as above PT6152S, but it features the Ported Shroud option on the TO4S compressor cover. Slightly lower hp rating of 640-645 because of the ported shroud option.
PT6176E Journal bearing turbo, with the 61mm compressor wheel, and the P-trim turbine wheel. Comes with the TO4E compressor cover and typically comes with a Precision .63 A/R turbine housing with an option for a .85 A/R turbine housing. (Note: .85 A/R not recommended on stock cars unless you are running a very loose converter.) Same wastegate actuator requirements as the TE-44. It requires a 3400-3500 at zero psi converter to spool it quickly. Best suited for 11.30 - 10.90 cars. 60# injectors are recommended. Very few in existence for Buick applications. Typically on used on small V8 applications. Fully built motor is also recommended to really utilize the flow capabilities of the P-trim turbine wheel. No downsides other than torque converter requirements, if run on a stock motor. 665-670 flywheel hp capability when maxed out.
PT6176S Journal bearing turbo, with the 61mm compressor wheel, and the P-trim turbine wheel. Comes with the TO4S compressor cover and typically comes with a Precision .63 A/R turbine housing with an option for a .85 A/R turbine housing. (Note: .85 A/R not recommended on stock cars unless you are running a very loose converter.) It requires a special adapter bracket to be used with either a stock spring wastegate actuator or a heavy duty spring wastegate actuator, in order to bolt up properly. Precision custom makes a CNC adapter bracket for this and other turbos that come with the TO4S cover. It requires a 3400-3500 at zero psi converter to spool it quickly. Best suited for 11.30 - 10.90 cars. 60# injectors are recommended. Very few have been built for Buick applications. Typically on used on small V8 applications. Fully built motor is also recommended to really utilize the flow capabilities of the P-trim turbine wheel. No downsides other than torque converter requirements, if run on a stock motor. 680 flywheel hp capability when maxed out.
PT6176SP Journal bearing turbo, with the 61mm compressor wheel, and the P-trim turbine wheel. Comes with the TO4S compressor cover that has a ported shroud and typically comes with a Precision .63 A/R turbine housing with an option for a .85 A/R turbine housing. (Note: .85 A/R not recommended on stock cars unless you are running a very loose converter.) It requires a special adapter bracket to be used with either a stock spring wastegate actuator or a heavy duty spring wastegate actuator, in order to bolt up properly. Precision custom makes a CNC adapter bracket for this and other turbos that come with the TO4S cover. It requires a 3400-3500 at zero psi converter to spool it quickly. Best suited for 11.30 - 10.90 cars. 60# injectors are recommended. Very few have been built for Buick applications. Typically on used on small V8 applications. Fully built motor is also recommended to really utilize the flow capabilities of the P-trim turbine wheel. No downsides other than torque converter requirements, if run on a stock motor. 670 flywheel hp capability when maxed out due to the ported shroud option.
Note: I also believe that the 6176E and the 6176S turbos are available from Precision with the dual ball bearing cartridge as well.
From here, if you are building your car to run in the 10's or faster, you have 7 more turbo models to choose from. Starting with the T63E (TE45) all the way up to the PT7076H. One of the most popular turbos for the 11.teen to low 10 second cars has been the PT67 series of turbos. There are tons of posts about it tho, so I won't go into it here. As you can see, with the endless array of turbos too choose from, it can get very perplexing trying to figure out which one will work best. This above info comes from not only my personal first hand experience with my own cars and while being a Territory Sales Rep at Precision, but also from close friends' own personal experiences with all of these turbos.
My best advice, if you know you have a set ET/MPH goal with the car, and don't want to run super high boost numbers (25-30 psi) in order to reach the goal, then get the largest turbo that will work and a properly matched torque converter. This way you will have decent charge temps and plenty of CFM flow at mid level boost numbers. (Typically 20-25 psi range.)
If you want very quick spool up and don't mind running the boost really high, (25-30 psi) then get the smallest turbo you can get, that will support your goals and a properly matched torque converter.
Small turbo = quick response but high boost levels to make the hp. And with high boost levels, comes very hot charge air temps, requiring an intercooler upgrade.
Large turbo = more dependent on higher stall converter but mid boost levels to make the hp. Mid boost levels and a more efficient compressor, equal moderate charge air temps.
There are more newer models coming from the big 3 (PTE, T-netics and Borg Warner) as I write this, but there have not been any real world back to back test results published as of yet. But I'm sure you will be hearing about them soon.
Hope some of this helps and sorry it was so long.
Patrick
Honestly, it really depends on what your goals are. There are so many choices out there today, and sure, we can see your combo, but in order to really narrow down the choices we need to know your goals with the car.
Here are a few that I like and why.
TA-49:
Stock appearing turbo that is capable of pushing a full weight car into the mid 11's, but the boost will have to be turned up to get there. Works with injectors sized from 36# Blue tops, all the way up to 60# Mototrons. Will work with a stock torque converter, but really likes a converter that will stall to 3000 at zero psi. Stock or heavy duty wastegate actuator with no special bracket required will bolt on. From Precision, it comes with a .63 A/R PTE turbine housing. From Limit Engineering it typically comes with a .63 A/R Garrett turbine housing and from T-netics it comes with a .63 A/R T-netics turbine housing. Factory heat shield and oil lines are bolt on. Can support 545 flywheel hp when maxed out. (28-29psi) But the heat created by the compressor wheel and compressor cover combo when run that high is tremendous.
TE-44:
Has a non stock appearing TO4E style compressor cover. Meaning it has an integral inlet bell. Same compressor wheel and turbine wheel as the TA-49 but can support about 15 more flywheel hp than the 49 can because of the more efficient compressor cover.From Limit Engineering it typically comes with a .63 A/R Garrett turbine housing and from T-netics it comes with a .63 A/R T-netics turbine housing. Same torque converter requirements, same fuel injector requirements. Will need a special bracket welded to either a standard or heavy duty actuator for proper orientation and operation. 560 flywheel hp capability at 28-29psi.
TE-60:
A true work horse of a turbo. Looks identical to a TE-44 from all outward appearances. Only difference is the compressor wheel, which is the old T series 60-1 compressor wheel. This turbo is available in journal bearing or dual ball bearing cartridges in Garrett form. (Precision & Limit Engineering) and single ball bearing from T-netics. From Precision it comes with a PTE .63 A/R turbine hosuing, from Limit Engineering it comes with a .63 A/R Garrett turbine housing and from T-netics it comes with a .63 A/R T-netics turbine housing. Must run a converter that will stall to 3000 at zero psi to properly spool it up. Same wastegate actuator requirements as the TE-44, and for that matter, any turbo that uses the TO4E style compressor cover. (3" inlet, 2" discharge compressor cover with a .60 A/R) 580 flywheel hp capability and has pushed full weight cars into the low 11's with high boost levels. Recommend 42.5# to 60# injectors for this turbo.
Precision PT61 family: (aka GT6131, GT6152E, GT6131BB)
This turbo was specifically made for cars wanting to run mid to low 11s without having to max the boost out. All of the 61mm turbos from PTE and Limit Engineering feature the Garrett GT series 61mm compressor wheel that is used in the GT35R turbo.
TurboByGarrett.com - Catalog
Depending on turbine wheel, it has a hp rating of 600 - 680. It is available with 3 different compressor covers (TO4E, TO4S and Ported shroud TO4S covers) and 3 different turbine wheels. (T31, T350 and P-trim) As well as being available in either journal bearing or dual ball bearing center cartridges.
PT6131E(GT6131E) is a journal bearing 6131E turbo. It has the 61mm compressor wheel and the T31 Stage 3 turbine wheel. Comes with the TO4E compressor cover and typically comes with a Precision .63 A/R turbine housing with an option for a .85 A/R turbine housing. (Note: .85 A/R not recommended on stock cars unless you are running a very loose converter.) Same wastegate actuator requirements as the TE-44. Although a stock D5 torque converter will spool it up, it really responds best to a converter that will stall to 3200 at zero psi. It has a 600 flywheel hp capability and is best suited for 12.00 - 11.50 cars. Recommend 42.5# to 60# injectors for this turbo.
PT6131RE (GT6131BB) Same specs as it's 6131E cousin but features the Garrett dual ball bearing cartridge. No stall upgrade needed. Same wastegate actuator requirements as the TE-44. It has a 600 flywheel hp capability and is best suited for 12.00 - 11.50 cars. Recommend 42.5# to 60# injectors for this turbo.
PT6152E (GT6152E) is a journal bearing 6152E turbo. It has the 61mm compressor wheel and a T350 Stage 5 turbine wheel. Comes with the TO4E compressor cover and typically comes with a Precision .63 A/R turbine housing with an option for a .85 A/R turbine housing. (Note: .85 A/R not recommended on stock cars unless you are running a very loose converter.) Same wastegate actuator requirements as the TE-44. It requires a 3200 at zero psi stall converter to spool it quickly. And has a 630 flywheel hp rating. Best suited for 11.80 - 11.20 cars.
PT6152S This is a journal bearing 6152 turbo with the larger TO4S series compressor cover. (4" inlet, 2.5" discharge) It has the 61mm compressor wheel and a T350 Stage 5 turbine wheel. It comes with a Precision .63 A/R turbine housing with an option for a .85 A/R turbine housing. (Note: .85 A/R not recommended on stock cars unless you are running a very loose converter.) It requires a special adapter bracket to be used with either a stock spring wastegate actuator or a heavy duty wastegate actuator to bolt up properly. Precision custom makes a CNC adapter bracket for this and other turbos that come with the TO4S cover. It also requires a 3200 at zero psi stall converter to spool it quickly and will support up to 650 flywheel hp when maxed out. The high hp rating comes from running a larger compressor cover. The charge temps at high boost levels are also lower with this compressor cover than the standard E cover. Best suited for 11.50 - 11 teen cars. 50# - 60# injectors are recommended.
PT6152SP Same specs as above PT6152S, but it features the Ported Shroud option on the TO4S compressor cover. Slightly lower hp rating of 640-645 because of the ported shroud option.
PT6176E Journal bearing turbo, with the 61mm compressor wheel, and the P-trim turbine wheel. Comes with the TO4E compressor cover and typically comes with a Precision .63 A/R turbine housing with an option for a .85 A/R turbine housing. (Note: .85 A/R not recommended on stock cars unless you are running a very loose converter.) Same wastegate actuator requirements as the TE-44. It requires a 3400-3500 at zero psi converter to spool it quickly. Best suited for 11.30 - 10.90 cars. 60# injectors are recommended. Very few in existence for Buick applications. Typically on used on small V8 applications. Fully built motor is also recommended to really utilize the flow capabilities of the P-trim turbine wheel. No downsides other than torque converter requirements, if run on a stock motor. 665-670 flywheel hp capability when maxed out.
PT6176S Journal bearing turbo, with the 61mm compressor wheel, and the P-trim turbine wheel. Comes with the TO4S compressor cover and typically comes with a Precision .63 A/R turbine housing with an option for a .85 A/R turbine housing. (Note: .85 A/R not recommended on stock cars unless you are running a very loose converter.) It requires a special adapter bracket to be used with either a stock spring wastegate actuator or a heavy duty spring wastegate actuator, in order to bolt up properly. Precision custom makes a CNC adapter bracket for this and other turbos that come with the TO4S cover. It requires a 3400-3500 at zero psi converter to spool it quickly. Best suited for 11.30 - 10.90 cars. 60# injectors are recommended. Very few have been built for Buick applications. Typically on used on small V8 applications. Fully built motor is also recommended to really utilize the flow capabilities of the P-trim turbine wheel. No downsides other than torque converter requirements, if run on a stock motor. 680 flywheel hp capability when maxed out.
PT6176SP Journal bearing turbo, with the 61mm compressor wheel, and the P-trim turbine wheel. Comes with the TO4S compressor cover that has a ported shroud and typically comes with a Precision .63 A/R turbine housing with an option for a .85 A/R turbine housing. (Note: .85 A/R not recommended on stock cars unless you are running a very loose converter.) It requires a special adapter bracket to be used with either a stock spring wastegate actuator or a heavy duty spring wastegate actuator, in order to bolt up properly. Precision custom makes a CNC adapter bracket for this and other turbos that come with the TO4S cover. It requires a 3400-3500 at zero psi converter to spool it quickly. Best suited for 11.30 - 10.90 cars. 60# injectors are recommended. Very few have been built for Buick applications. Typically on used on small V8 applications. Fully built motor is also recommended to really utilize the flow capabilities of the P-trim turbine wheel. No downsides other than torque converter requirements, if run on a stock motor. 670 flywheel hp capability when maxed out due to the ported shroud option.
Note: I also believe that the 6176E and the 6176S turbos are available from Precision with the dual ball bearing cartridge as well.
From here, if you are building your car to run in the 10's or faster, you have 7 more turbo models to choose from. Starting with the T63E (TE45) all the way up to the PT7076H. One of the most popular turbos for the 11.teen to low 10 second cars has been the PT67 series of turbos. There are tons of posts about it tho, so I won't go into it here. As you can see, with the endless array of turbos too choose from, it can get very perplexing trying to figure out which one will work best. This above info comes from not only my personal first hand experience with my own cars and while being a Territory Sales Rep at Precision, but also from close friends' own personal experiences with all of these turbos.
My best advice, if you know you have a set ET/MPH goal with the car, and don't want to run super high boost numbers (25-30 psi) in order to reach the goal, then get the largest turbo that will work and a properly matched torque converter. This way you will have decent charge temps and plenty of CFM flow at mid level boost numbers. (Typically 20-25 psi range.)
If you want very quick spool up and don't mind running the boost really high, (25-30 psi) then get the smallest turbo you can get, that will support your goals and a properly matched torque converter.
Small turbo = quick response but high boost levels to make the hp. And with high boost levels, comes very hot charge air temps, requiring an intercooler upgrade.
Large turbo = more dependent on higher stall converter but mid boost levels to make the hp. Mid boost levels and a more efficient compressor, equal moderate charge air temps.
There are more newer models coming from the big 3 (PTE, T-netics and Borg Warner) as I write this, but there have not been any real world back to back test results published as of yet. But I'm sure you will be hearing about them soon.
Hope some of this helps and sorry it was so long.
Patrick
workingdan
Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2007
- Messages
- 207
Thanks ruqwknf the was the info I was looking for. My goals are for a 11.50 street car that I can drive anywere. I am also looking to do a stock location i.c. at the same time. I also was going to do a turbo saver, march pulleys,and a rjc power plate at the same time. I am hopeing that that will saticefy me for a while.
