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Understanding the Wastegate Solenoid

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S10xGN

RETIRED!
Joined
May 26, 2001
Messages
2,563
Hi Guys!

Been thinking about the ol' WG sol lately... I'm not understanding how it lessens boost. The way I'm thinking, most street chips allow [say] 18# in 1st and 2nd gear, then scale back boost to [say] 16# in 3rd and 4th gear. If this is correct, then whenever the ECM pulses the WG sol, it will BLEED OFF some of the boost signal (at least the way our cars are plumbed), thereby raising the boost instead of lowering it. So how does activating the WG sol lower the boost in higher gears?

TIA!
 
first of all there is no "boost signal" from the solenoid....all chips do is vary the pulse rate at a certain rpm, gear.......the pressure allowed thru the solenoid which will push the wastegate open is a function of this pulsing....the chip does not know what the boost level is

so, in first gear, some chips will pulse the solenoid less, thus allowing less pressure into the wastegate, keeping it closed more and voila(!) more boost!

clear as mud?
 
Saying it another way. The solenoid is an electric bleed valve. When it is closed, that will be the minimum possible boost and will reflect the spring tension of the actuator.

When it is pulsed at a rapid rate, it will, in essence, be held open, and that will bleed off a lot of the boost from the compressor housing that would normally be trying to push the diaphram in the actuator to open the wastegate. Therefore, it will take more boost pressure to not only bleed off but, to overrun the solenoid and activate the actuator.

More mud for the fire. :)
 
Even more mud :-):

Remember the restrictor in the y-hose? It goes closest to the compressor outlet, and the solenoid and wastegate actuator are on the other two legs of the tee. When the solenoid is closed (and the actuator isn't leaking :-)) there is no flow once the tubing is pressurized and thus no pressure drop and so the actuator gets the full compressor outlet pressure. When the solenoid opens it lets air bleed out, and now there is flow and a pressure drop across the restrictor so the actuator gets less pressure and closes up some. Another way to look at is that it takes more compressor outlet pressure to get the same actuator pressure as before. This is how the solenoid raises the boost over the mechanical setting of the wastegate. The ecm doesn't measure boost, it just has a table of duty cycles for the solenoid valve (the higher the duty cycle the more air the valve bleeds off and so the greater the pressure drop across the restrictor) vs. rpm, another table vs. tps that is all 1's in the stock chip, and then a multiplier to reduce the duty cycle for 3rd gear and another multiplier for 4th gear. The ecm leaves the solenoid turned off until the maf pass a threshold, 76 gps stock.

If you put the restrictor in the y-hose in wrong, so the restrictor is closest to the solenoid, then the actuator is getting its pressure before the restrictor (directly from the compressor outlet) and so the boost is about what the mechanical setting gives. That's why you see 12-14 psi boost if you get the hose on wrong. The other way to get the restrictor in wrong is to put it closest to the actuator. In this case there is no flow through the restrictor and so no pressure drop there, and even when the solenoid valve is open since there is no restriction in the supply line from the compressor outlet there is basically no pressure drop and so again, the actuator sees the full compressor outlet pressure and the boost is low.

Finally, you might say, well, why not make the restrictor hole very, very small. When I said that there was no flow to the actuator earlier, I meant in the steady state once the actuator was holding the flap valve open at some position. To get to that position the diaphragm has to move and some air has to flow to make that happen. The smaller the restrictor the slower this will be, and eventually you will see a boost spike (the boost will overshoot the setpoint by a few psi then come back down to the setpoint) because the actuator isn't able to bleed off exhaust flow fast enough. Flow is also required to pressurize all the tubing leading to the solenoid valve, which is pretty close, but if you replace it with a manual bleed valve and put that inside the car you now have many more feet of tubing to pressurize and sometimes this will also cause a boost spike. Going bigger than necessary on the restrictor makes the controls work really fast but wastes some of your boost. Also, the internal orifice in the solenoid valve is calibrated for the size of the orifice in the restrictor, and when GM had that batch several years ago with smaller holes in them the solenoid was bleeding off more air that expected and the final boost was too high.
 
Woody - I know there's no signal from the solenoid. I was having trouble seeing how the WG sol would REDUCE boost when pulsed open. Seemed to me to that the opposite would happen. Until reading Carl's statement on how the hose "Y" installs. Therein lies the problem: I had the restrictor going to the WG actuator, not the sol. After "revisualizing" things, I now have it working correctly, at least in my mind!

Carl - Thanks for the detailed explanation of the hose "Y" and restrictor. I not only had it wrong in my mind, but on the car too! :eek: After drawing it out on paper the right way, I see how pulsing the sol open will in fact, reduce boost.

Steve - Hi! :D (couldn't NOT say hello to my mentor!)
 
It doesn't reduce boost when pulsed open. It increases boost. The higher the duty cycle, the more time the solenoid is open and the more boost.

Your boost is lower in 3/4 not because the solenoid is decreasing it, but because it isn't increasing it as much as it did in 1/2. It's not just semantics, it is a matter of relating the measurements to the proper control (boost level with solenoid closed all of the time).

If the solenoid wasn't activating then the boost level would be very low all of the time. Much less than the 3/4 level. I like to call that the "natural" boost level. It varies based on the length of the actuator rod or strength of any added springs. The ecm/eprom/solenoid can only increase boost from there, never decrease it.

HTH,
Tom
 
Russ, pulsing the solenoid open will reduce the pressure signal to the wastegate actuator, which raises the boost. I guess I wasn't clear enough, sigh.
 
d@mn! and I thought I had it figured out... So you're saying the solenoid is pulsing (to some degree) almost all the time, just more so in the lower gears?
 
Originally posted by S10xGN
d@mn! and I thought I had it figured out... So you're saying the solenoid is pulsing (to some degree) almost all the time, just more so in the lower gears?


Yes, it's a pulsing device, when activated. As Carl said, when activated it's pulsing bleeds "some" air sorta like an "electronic grainger" valve. If more boost is commanded, then the pulse frequency is increased, to bleed more air, thus increasing boost. If the solenoid were completely out of the picture, you would only get as much boost as the spring in your actuator allowed (about 12psi stock), nothing could change that, unless you had an adjustable rod and could shorten it.
 
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