Very good read "Detonation"

[Dino1]

Ran across this artical and found it very informative, thought I would share it.

Engine Basics: Detonation and Pre-Ignition by Allen W. Cline

Save it in a folder... It may not be their forever.

 

[mike lee]

Engine Detonation

Excellent article a must for the tool box

 

[Nick Micale]

Pre-ignition damage..

For many years I have heard of many owners complain of engine damage like blown head gaskets and more, but state that they never recorded, or did see any knock?

Since pre-ignition will NOT set off the knock sensor, it can give one a false sense of security, but will cause massive damage, much more so than detonation.

This is especially true when using achy with pump gas and relative high boost. My response has been achy is NOT a substitute for race gas, even though some tuners have figured out how to deal with it. They understand it takes 3 time the amount of alcohol to develop the same HP as gasoline.

Pump gas in many areas of the country already is 15% alcohol, and has rapid deterioration of octane starting like 3 weeks after blending. So if it sits underground, or in your fuel tanks for a few weeks, it can be inadequate, especially for boosted application.

When we see spark plug damage like the side electrode gone, or the porcelain tip damaged or broken, or valves "tuliped", this indicates pre-ignition damage and VERY high heat was present in the combustion chamber.

As we build faster GN's and more powerful engines, we experienced some weird and massive damages which caused by pre-ignition due to inadequate octane.

Most we could find found early, but some customer's that did not heed our warnings, and ended up with VERY expensive damage like shown on the block below.

It had definite signs of pre-ignition, like the damage to plugs and valves, but the tuner decided to make another pass - expensive decision.

When the 2 rods failed, it took out the crank, cam, lifters, valves, torque converter, trans case and front pump, flexplate and misc. other parts, and obviously the block.

 

[mike lee]

detonation/pre-ignition

Thats looks like a nice boat anchor! Can any one post some damaged spark plugs and what a plug looks like when the motor is happy would make a great refrence! Thanks Mike:biggrin:

 

[Nick Micale]

Not so quick....

Thats looks like a nice boat anchor! .... Thanks Mike:biggrin:

You and others may think that is a boat anchor, but it will be running at Pinks this weekend in Phoenix.

I purchased the broken block so Mike at TA and I could prove the value of an aluminum block by bringing it back to life.

It already has about a dozen 9 sec. runs.

TA had it welded up, and it went into their CNC for re-machining. All new internals and lots of other work put Humpty-Dumpty back together!

Try that with an iron block.

 

[mike lee]

Boat Anchor

Nice job good luck

 

[HI85WH1]

You and others may think that is a boat anchor, but it will be running at Pinks this weekend in Phoenix.

I purchased the broken block so Mike at TA and I could prove the value of an aluminum block by bringing it back to life.

It already has about a dozen 9 sec. runs.

TA had it welded up, and it went into their CNC for re-machining. All new internals and lots of other work put Humpty-Dumpty back together!

Try that with an iron block.

Good job on the recycling!... and FWIW, Aluminum wouldnt make avery good anchor... too light!

 

[dr_frankenstein]

You and others may think that is a boat anchor, but it will be running at Pinks this weekend in Phoenix.

I purchased the broken block so Mike at TA and I could prove the value of an aluminum block by bringing it back to life.

It already has about a dozen 9 sec. runs.

TA had it welded up, and it went into their CNC for re-machining. All new internals and lots of other work put Humpty-Dumpty back together!

Try that with an iron block.

question is...

what did it cost to revive that damaged block.

is it within the realm of the average hobbiest?

A.j.

 

[Nick Micale]

question is...

what did it cost to revive that damaged block.

is it within the realm of the average hobbiest?

A.j.

It cost about 1/2 the price of a new block.

The weld repair was done by a specialist in alum welding who has repaired many alum blocks damaged worse than this one.

One sleeve was damaged, and all were removed and reset during the machining process at TA. This requires an oven large enough, and hot enough, to heat the block to the proper temp for removal of the sleeves.

I doubt than any auto machine shop could have done the repair properly, or done the finish machine work without a CNC machine and a set of Buick V-6 stage block blueprints.

 

[hesermon]

question is...

what did it cost to revive that damaged block.

is it within the realm of the average hobbiest?

A.j.

I don't know that 9 sec passes with an alum. block and the internal parts he mentioned above would qualify as an "average hobbiest". If so, I'd like to be a little more "average"!

 

[dr_frankenstein]

I don't know that 9 sec passes with an alum. block and the internal parts he mentioned above would qualify as an "average hobbiest". If so, I'd like to be a little more "average"!

it happens, we cant all be winners.

:wink:A.j.

 

[mike lee]

T-A Block

Nick just curious how much are we talking for a TA block soup to nuts crank rods heads machine work etc? Maybe I wont send my daughter to college

 

[Nick Micale]

Call me and I will be glad to discuss this with you. :smile:

 

[Razor]

C12/C16/Q16 wont guarantee that you cant blow your motor up.

That TA block was it on pump gas or race gas when it let go?

What was the failure caused the pre-ignition?