What am I working with?

[chris kirk]

IMO, it will be easier just starting over.

 

[T- Type Tim]

One day ...when im retired.... i'd like to have a project like this.

Just step through the problems one at a time, do them right the first time.... and bring the car back to life. When its done, the pride factor will make it worth it ( at least in my humble opinion).

 

[RUQWKNF]

Yes, welcome aboard. You definitely sound like you have the right attitude and desire to tackle this job so here we go.

Get this.
http://www.casperselectronics.com/c...search=engine+wiring+harness&description=true

It will save you a million headaches in the future.

For OEM stuff go here.

https://www.highwaystars.net/

Depending on the condition of your ECM, as was previously stated, pull the ECM out of the plastic carrier, and pull the two connectors off the ECM. The harness has two main plugs with squeeze tabs. Look for signs of corrosion in the ECM and for broken pins. If corrosion or broken pins, replace the ECM. Your pic looks like a stock chip, but without pulling it and seeing if there is something written on the bottom of the chip, we don't know for certain. The small chip is the CALPAK or fail safe chip. The bigger one, is the main E-PROM. Both will need to be transported to a new ECM if needed. Carefully rock the chip side to side to remove them.

You can get other items that are not offered by Hwy Stars from Kirban Performance.
https://www.kirbanperformance.com/

Also, another excellent source for very hard to find items is G-Body Parts. Brian and his crew are excellent to deal with. It might take some time, but they are a stand up company to deal with https://gbodyparts.com/index.php?cPath=46&osCsid=127dac758e6d137e81eb5ae28cb09b91

Take tons of pics, including the SPID label in the trunk, cover up the VIN obviously and folks on here can help decode it for you. One things for certain, if it's a true Limited, it is 1 of 1035 produced in "87 and definitely worth saving.

If you have the patience, and the will to tackle this project, we are all here to help you accomplish your goal.

I commend you for taking on such a challenging project, but just know, this will be the toughest challenge ever. It's not impossible, but on a scale from 1-10, it's a 200.

Don't be afraid of completely replacing the frame if rust is beyond repair able. Both Classic Industries and OPG are getting deep into replacement parts for these cars. Go to their site and sign up for their free catalogs.

https://www.classicindustries.com/r...03950d14|7e220de8-622a-4ed4-b2dd-23a34e84676b

https://www.opgi.com/restoration-parts-catalog-grand-national-regal-t-type.asp

As others have said, take your time, clean everything thoroughly so you can take more pics so everyone can see what your dealing with. Hope some of this helps.

-Patrick-

 

[1986 Buick GX1]

Welcome to the TR world. I'm pretty sure GM chose TR because these cars are Totally Ridiculous to work on and are Terribly Resistive to any progress trying to be made. Lol

This is the factory boost solenoid mounted to the valve cover. I have both ports covered with foam (to look stock) because I'm using a Manual boost controller mounted to the back of the turbo shield. Leaving it plugged in (electrically) eliminates error codes.

the "stock" intercooler is actually one from the '89 turbo trans am - by the tag on top. Cust P/N reads 20TA-10050...

the TTA intercoolers have a greater # of fins per row vs the GN stocker. supposed to have greater thermal efficiency vs GN (lower fin count). however more fins per row on a cooler the same size is also limiting to the volume of airflow passing thru the cooler.

just an observation....no difference in performance vs stock GN or even GNX intercooler which had even more fins per row.

TB vendor here Mark Hueffman at buickgn.com makes replacement tags...see better detail here http://buickgn.com/Intercooler Tags.htm

As Anthony said the I/C tags make any non stock I/C look well, stock.



There are a lot of guys that can provide info on what things were like from the factory since you're building a stockish ride.

Keep posting photos as you progress and we will offer suggestions that you can use or you can tell us to pound sand.

 

[Tizzledizzle]

Thanks everyone. I am cautiously optimistic, sounds like I have a ton of work ahead of me but I'm still excited to tackle the mountain of problems I inherited!

 

[~JM~]

Take a look at these sites also.

http://www.gnttype.org Check out the "Resources" drop down menu at the upper right corner.
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/electrical/wiring.html

http://www.vortexbuicks-etc.com

Those sites along with this one will cover about everything with a search.

 

[rag231]

I don t think that you have a ton of work if you have the means to replace the engine wiring harness back to factory specs. You can normally find those used on the board where some cars are being parted out or turned into racecars and the harness is not needed. There are a ton of splices on your harness that's on an engine that has already been in a very moist environment. My car used to be garaged 24/7 and now that it lives in and out of a garage and carport, strange things started happening. My car wouldnt crank and it turned out that my crank trigger was corroded. Fixed that problem, fired right up. Few weeks go by car wouldnt crank again , ECM corrosion, cleaned those terminals, fired right up. A few weeks later, car wouldnt start again, troubleshot the starter and fusible links, links were good , ordered a new starter, fired right up, took the old starter to Auto Zone, worked like a champ. My car does not like to live outside. I have had my cars for 21 years and I still reference "No Start" conditions on the above mention vortexbuicks site. Those sites are great tools. Print the pages and keep them for a future reference just in case.

 

[Pronto]

You are going to need a local experienced TB owner to help you sort out this stuff.

 

[Anthony P]

All those butt splices by the wiper motor pictured in post#8 are what used to go to the 3 radiator fan relays mounted to the inner fender - low speed, high speed and time delay. pic below is what is supposed to be there.

 

[Tizzledizzle]

All those butt splices by the wiper motor pictured in post#8 are what used to go to the 3 radiator fan relays mounted to the inner fender - low speed, high speed and time delay. pic below is what is supposed to be there.

View attachment 330993

Thank you. That’s been driving me nuts, but have been out of town and unable to pull a schematic and figure it out. I can recereate that without issue.

I should also mention my partner in crime on this build is my dad, and engineer and long time wrench turner (his project is a 32 Buick). Where I get stuck he almost always has a solution.

 

[Anthony P]

It's wonderful to be able to do this project with your Dad.

@Phoff (Pete Hoffman) on this forum compiled an informative book for the 86-87 turbo buick engine. photos of stock engine compartment and components, some wiring diagrams like for the cooling fan relays, fastener sizes, torque specs, etc. This book may compliment the tech resources already mentioned - gnttype.org, vortex buicks, searching this forum, etc. Look up Pete's profile via member search and text him about the book. # is on postings.

As you begin to compile a parts list, just know that part pricing can vary dramatically among the vendors as can shipping and handling charges. Sometimes it is not clear what brand item you are purchasing let alone regular product or a value series product. For example, Standard Motor Products has their regular product line with lifetime guarantee or 3 or 5 yr warranty and their T-series value line of parts carrying a 12 months warranty.

I like to use Rock Auto for research - multiple brands of same part with pictures. Once you have pictures and part #'s you can determine what stuff is best sourced locally from Advance Auto, AutoZone, O'Reilly's, etc OR from Kirban's and Highway Stars OR from Summit Racing and Jegs OR from RockAuto OR from ebay. Mike's Montes in OH is a good vendor as well. With your Dad's '32 project, I'm sure you get what I'm saying.

The best pricing on the radiator fan relays is from Rock Auto. some parts do not come up when searching by year, make, model. search via part # and you will find the fan delay relay. All standard motor products...

high and low speed fan relay - SMP RY145 as OEM here for $14.75 each, need 2

time delay relay - SMP RY427 as OEM here for $69.99

You have a large project ahead of you. When I sourced the stainless steel fuel lines, brake lines, and trans lines by Classic Tube, Kirban's had the best pricing from some things while Summit had the best for others.

create accounts (sign up with email address, etc) with Summit, Jegs, Classic Industries, Original Parts group - there are some nice discount codes sent via email. Sign up for Kirban's InnerCircle weekly email - on his website homepage, left side under the ZDDP box. his used parts may be of interest to you. he's probably going to be stripping an '86 GN soon.

 

[Anthony P]

Another example is the varying prices for the GoodMark brand of flexible bumper fillers. If you want flexible ones like OEM, the Goodmarks are the best and all the vendors sell them. But there is a $200 difference for the set of front and rear among the vendors.

If you'd prefer the fiberglass fillers, the ones Mike @ Spoolfool made are the best hard fillers anywhere - fiberglass or ABS plastic. His gelcoat pieces can be installed without painting if you prefer - they are that good.

So you have to do your homework with parts sourcing. see the current bumper filler vendor thread below.

https://turbobuick.com/threads/bumper-fillers.461087/#post-3843786

 

[Tizzledizzle]

Thanks @Anthony P Just pinged Phoff to get a copy of his book. I've already been digging through all of those sights to get a feel for the market. Pretty sure I've viewed every single product Kirban sells at least twice before my car ever showed up. I enjoy the research and learning aspect of the journey. Phoff's book sounds like a major missing piece I need to help figure this mess out.

 

[Anthony P]

When you get to radiator and heater hoses, Dayco and Gates make all the hoses, HOWEVER, their electronic catalogs the brick and mortar stores and RockAuto use don't list all the hoses if searching by year, make, model.

I did a list of the hoses for another member. just have to find the thread, cut and paste. don't fall for buying the $30 S-shaped water pump bypass hose or believe it is a hard to find item. they are all nickel and dime items available anywhere once you know the Dayco or Gates #.

I worked with a Dayco tech rep and engineer to correct their e-catalog listing. Tried to help the vendors here but some did not want to listen at first. It's sad that someone trying to help them improve their product offerings gets rebuked. But the vendors eventually came around to correct their product offering on the radiator hoses. Gates tech support did not want to listen.

I add all the coolant hose info this weekend.

 

[TurboTGuy]

I sure hope that critter that ate all those pecans didn't eat up your wiring, too...

If your ECM is FUBAR, I have a known good one I will happily donate to you. Welcome aboard and good luck!

 

[Pronto]

I'd skip that time delay relay. Nothing but trouble there.

 

[gsgnnut]

Do yourself a favor and plan on replacing the power master with either hydroboost or vacuum. The power master is a nightmare and if it even works will eventually die when you least expect it. Trade it in for a credit

 

[Tizzledizzle]

Do yourself a favor and plan on replacing the power master with either hydroboost or vacuum. The power master is a nightmare and if it even works will eventually die when you least expect it. Trade it in for a credit

Definitely on the list. Never had any intentions of getting behind the wheel with the power master still in place.

 

[earlbrown]

I can help you out with the vacuum conversion when the time comes. I wrote a step by step how-to in the technical section too if you want to take a look at it.

Since you're deep off in wiring hell, I've also got a set of factory GM shop books. These are the ones that GM techs used back in the 80's when these cars has to be fixed under warranty. The second book is pretty much all wiring stuff. They cover EVERYTHING with these cars.

 

[Anthony P]

That's some really nice offerings from @TurboTGuy and @earlbrown.

What @Pronto is referring to in post #36 wrt the fan delay relay is:
The fan delay relay is not a sealed relay, so it can be adversely affected by constant exposure to moisture/water. A new relay, as shown in the RockAuto link above, has the terminals coated in bulb grease/dielectric grease for a reason. The 3 relays on the driver's side did not have a GM factory covering like the MAP sensor, A/C compressor relay, fuel pump relay and Electronic Spark Control (ESC) module did on the passenger side. So if the car is left outside in the elements, gets soaked from precipitation and driving in it and you wash the engine bay with a garden hose, over time that relay's internals will fail due to moisture. A failure sign is that your battery is dead because the internally corroded fan delay relay turned on the radiator fan and that fan operated unnoticed until the battery was drained. Kirban's listing for the fan delay relay, part # 7310 here has pics of that water damage over time.

If you keep the car out of the elements and periodically apply new bulb grease there should be no problems with a new relay. In addition, Kirban's made a relay cover for the driver's side - part #6684 here - a nice piece for $20 to mirror the passenger side.

Here is the info on radiator hoses and the heater hoses:

Coolant hoses:
Last year I did an extensive project noting the fitment problems with the aftermarket radiator hoses and lack of choices. The lower radiator hose is not the same for the 84-85 hot air engines and the 86-87 intercooled engines. And the upper hose has fitment issues with some brands. The real problem is that the correct hoses are made, however the manufacturers make it nearly impossible to find the correct hose as their e-catalogs were so lacking. not to detract from the OP's thread, but for additional knowledge, completeness and transparency to my conclusions, that thread can be read here.

Now we all know that Dayco is the only company that makes a correct upper AND lower radiator hose for the 86-87 TB's.
Upper radiator hose = Dayco 71755
Lower = Dayco 71756

Waterpump bypass hose or "S" hose = Gates 19598. When searched by year, make, model, engine, this hose is listed ONLY for the non-turbo 3.8 V6. Dayco does not make an alternate. tired of vendors listing this Gates hose as something that they specifically had made and sell it for $25+ when it is just a $6 hose made by Gates.

Heater hoses:

Waterpump to pipe 1 (3/4 inch hardpipe from heater core) = Gates 19603. Shape is correct, have to cut off a little from the ends.

Heater core outlet to pipe 1 = Gates 28474 OR Dayco 80411. Both are cut to fit.

Pipe 2 (5/8 inch hardpipe from manifold) to heater valve = Gates 28466 OR Dayco 80400. Both are cut to fit.

Heater valve to heater core inlet = Gates 28466 OR Dayco 80400. Both are cut to fit.

For these heater hoses, I am favorable to Gates. The spec is slightly higher temp than the Dayco and Dayco only makes some of the hoses. So I'd prefer to keep all these heater hoses Gates like the "S" hose. There are some Continental heater hoses that will work as well. Check out the Rock Auto page listing here. Again, I like the pics and part # cross references when I'm researching stuff. All the small hoses totaled $35 in mid-2017. you can pick up the radiator hoses locally at brick and mortar parts stores. Advance can't get Gates hoses so RockAuto was my solution for them.