What do I need to know about a 274" build

[troyk]

I've been out of the game for a few years, had motor in a local rebuild shop for a yr now & last weekend I found out TA has a alum block w/4.0" bore, so now now I'm looking into that for my rebuild since I'm still on my mechanics waiting list.

List of parts on the car currently:
PTE 62mm GT 1st, gen, journal bearing
gn1 alum heads
212 cam stock rockers
ATR liq intercooler
ATR full exhaust & headers
BGC intake port matched
trans, Janis build with all hardened parts, shift is set to be 200rmp later than stock
Precision multi clutch converter 405336
FAST ECU
HRpartsNstuff rear suspension

Current list of parts intended toward the rebuild motor(before I found the alum block):
3.625 stroker kit(skat 5.970 h beam rods, and JE pistons) from gn1performance
212 roller cam & 1.65 rockers
PTE ??mm CEA BB turbo, size yet to be determined
alky injection
XFI FAST if I can find the money

I know I need to get new pistons & rings, since the stroker kit is purchased for a 3.8", is there any other mods I should or reccomend to do, to make everything make up?

Hoping for 600 wheel hp. I don't know if the mechanic has bought the cam yet, so this sizing might be change able. I have tried a 218/218 cam previously & though it lacked bottom end for cruising in lockup in 4th. People tease me at work, because I shift my daily driver below 200rpm all time, so I guess bottom end tq or turbo spool at low RPMs will be important to me for turbo/cam selection.

I hope to see TA performance & Champion at the Nats next week, maybe do a motor purchase if they stock any. I know they build in small batches & could be long lead time on blocks, so I don't know if I will wait or not. Off-center is what I want, right? Does Bison have a vendors tent at the Nats? I don't know who he is or if he is a vendor. His profile doesn't list a company name.

 

[DCVING 6]

TA does have an intake to pan longblock ready to go for $16,900

http://taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=260ciV6

 

[troyk]

Yah, I saw that already, a little rich for my blood.

I assume it will be cheaper to use all my existing parts & buy block, piston & rings will be a lot cheaper(maybe $4700 + assembling). Unless I have a lot of parts that won't fit this block or a lot of machining.

 

[charlief1]

Yah, I saw that already, a little rich for my blood..

That's about what it will cost you whether you do it yourself or have someone build it for you. And no, I'm not kidding here. It's not a finished, ready to build block and there's a lot of work that will need to be done.

 

[slamming 6]

The stage ll in my signature is for sale throttle body to oil pan.

 

[rmar]

The math is a Lil different on a aluminum block build also depending on how you are going to push it.
So if your builder is not up on them.. I'd be double checking his credentials.

 

[Stage24u]

Hoping for 600 wheel hp

That's a low goal to justify spending $4k on a block built to handle 1500hp+.

 

[Nick Micale]

Couple of comments, first the off-center blocks are not in stock but will be available early next year.

The TA alum block has 3.90" bore sleeves and it would not be wise to bore it to 4" on the first build?

As was stated, "checking credentials" on the machinist is VERY important as there are crucial differences in machining and building a performance engine with an alum block.

Looking at your choice on some of your parts such as the cam, they will work, but for optimum performance, I feel there are better options for the goals you posted.

 

[troyk]

Does TA build short blocks? Or is it the valve train setup that is different on the alum blocks?

 

[trixdout]

Does TA build short blocks? Or is it the valve train setup that is different on the alum blocks?

The machining of aluminum is the part that is different than an iron block. The thermal expansion of aluminum is different. The thing is the machinist has the marry all the parts together, metals of all different thermal expansion rates. So aluminum is tricky and with that comes cost.


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[troyk]

Stage24u: Not everybody wants a trailer queen. If you look at the stuff that is on the car now, you can tell I don't go the value ended route. I'm looking to have a car to drive home at the end of the day, this option seems to allow me to have 12.5% more cubic inch & maybe 12.5% more hp if no other bottle necks exist. I currently make 440hp & 12.5% more is 495hp & I'm not pushing the boost any higher for this gain in hp. I did mention I like low end tq, when I mean low end tq 2000rpm(cruising speed).

Originally I thought it was going to be a 18% gain when I thought I was getting a 4" bore. That's 520hp. So you don't think 80hp for $4000 is cost effective? I already have all the bolt on options done, except alky, which I don't really like the idea of(what happens when the alky tank goes dry or pump dies & I'm on it?).

Both stage24u & Nick seems to indicate there maybe more hp to be had & still achieve my goals, but can anyone suggest something? I've run out of ideas to make more hp & keep it street able. I seen yesterday that a 6262 turbo looks like a possibility for my goals. A 212 cam that I had in my car was fine on low end power w/my existing turbo, but was thinking with the better turbos that r out today, maybe go to a 214. But I suspect both of these changes won't get me even 40hp, (remember I'm going from hyd cam & stock rocker to 1.65 rockers & roller cam).

I see Mike Licht suggesting on a recent post that there is gains to be had right now in the cam world, but still sounds like yrs out before development is done & product has made for the end user. Maybe I need a custom grind since I'm unusual at sacrificing peak hp for low tq.

 

[20psiofevil]

Troy, I run a 6262 on a 260ci ford v6. All details in my sig. The 218/224 cam I have paired with the turbo and converter the power band comes on similar to a ta49 turbo I had on a 238ci motor with 210/218 cam. Only down side is my motor will pull to 6500rpm and the .63ar doesn't like to rev past 5800rpm with 60lb/min of air. I had bought this turbo for my old combo and feel a 6765 .8xar with h cover would be a much better match for the combo. I plan to stay the course with the 6262 as there is more in it.

 

[ek02]

There may be a rod to cam clearance issue with a 3.625 stroke crank. Forged H-Beam rods have to be ground for clearance, unless the cam has a small base circle. You will need a balancer and flywheel for an internally balanced crank also.

 

[Nick Micale]

The machining of aluminum is the part that is different than an iron block. The thermal expansion of aluminum is different. The thing is the machinist has the marry all the parts together, metals of all different thermal expansion rates. .......

Alum blocks usually have steel cylinder liners which also need to be done different than plain cast iron cylinder heads.

We have learned a few specific items that also need to be done when building and assembling the TA alum blocks.

 

[Nick Micale]

Hoping for 600 wheel hp......

According to the HP calculator, my car running high 9's at ~135 MPH is developing over 700 RWHP with a production 4.1 iron block and this is using e-85, and I "play" HARD with it!

This is my spare engine that is a clone of my TA alum build.
file://localhost/Users/nickmicale/Desktop/IMG_3648.MOV

 

[troyk]

I wouldn't know how to acquire a 4.1 block, since I assume I have to go to the junk yard to get it. And know I got the right one. Sorry I'm not that mechanical.

I would love to go to E85, but the last time I researched it, it didn't sound like anyone made a fuel pump that is E85 compatible & can be mounted in the fuel tank. I think I currently have dual WB 109s & a screw on fuel filter that here was originally on Chevy 350s, looks like a oil filter. And I'm not sure what all else needs to be replaced, I assume the fuel lines. Then the fuel rail on the intake is alum & doesn't alum corrode on E85? I would have to have someone fab up a stainless fuel rail. I think fuel regulator is alum too.

I didn't know E85 made it out to AZ, I thought it was just a mid west thing, which is where I'm at.

Maybe I'll call you tomorrow, if your at work tomorrow.

 

[turboclam]

Racetronix/Full Throttle and I think Arizona GN has drop-in E85 pumps.

 

[696]

X2 on the Racetronix kit. Buy it once and be done, just go bigger than you think on injectors. I'm back up to almost maxing 79's and I have all stock internals...