What Is the Fastest B4 Black car around...

[WkillGS]

When I degreed the cam in, it was off a bit from what the cam card stated.
@ 0.050" lifter rise, actual measurements were:
Intake opens: -6
Intake closes: 35
Exhaust Opens: 39
Exhaust closes: -9

With those points, duration was 209/210
112.5* lobe centers, with intake installed at 113.5*

I did observe another problem when I tore the engine down to inspect a knocking problem.....
with the front cover off, as the engine was rotated, the cam would move slightly forward out of the block, then slap back against the block. I believe that is what was causing my engine noise!
Car always did have erratic timing too....so the cam movement would explain that as well.
Anyone ever see that on a V6?

 

[WarWagon]

What did the engine Idle and sound like with revs Walt?

 

[charlief1]

Found my cam card. It's a Sig Erson 'Turbo 1' cam:
209/210 duration
.491/.466 lift with the 1.66 ratio roller rockers.
112.5 lobe center

I hated this cam! It had poor low-end and only got about 13 mpg in town.
I picked up a milder GSCA cam years ago. Its a 200/200H. I'll give it a try and see if it makes the car more streetable.

Have an 86 GN turbo in stock. I always wanted to try it. Thought about simply putting a thermostat housing on the compressor outlet to adapt it to the intake manifold!

The duration isn't bad but the lifts are backwards from what a turbo cam should be. I can understand why it was a dog. Take a look at the E brock cam and see what I mean. 204-214 for duration and .448 and .474 lifts. It works well as an NA cam and for the turbo cars. If you switch to roller rockers then you get a little more lift to help out. If you go smaller but keep the durations and lifts simular to the E brock cam you'll wake the car up and if you put it in 2 degrees advanced you'll have more bottom end as well.

 

[Pat83t]

I know I already posted this in another thread but here is the cam specs for the Lunati cam I was running. I had ported and polished cast iron heads and was running a 3000 stall 9X11 converter. Was actually more like a 9.5X11 converter.

 

[charlief1]

I know I already posted this in another thread but here is the cam specs for the Lunati cam I was running. I had ported and polished cast iron heads and was running a 3000 stall 9X11 converter. Was actually more like a 9.5X11 converter.

The cam is backwards to the current stuff Pat. You need to load the exhaust side to get better results with a turbo. I'll see if I can find the thread on cam design for the turbo cars. Tech info for all of us whether it's SFI or earlier like we are.:smile:

 

[eastwoodad]

The cam is backwards to the current stuff Pat. You need to load the exhaust side to get better results with a turbo. I'll see if I can find the thread on cam design for the turbo cars. Tech info for all of us whether it's SFI or earlier like we are.:smile:

Charlie,

I would love if you posted some info on that...I might be looking at reconsidering my setup in the future for a blowthru/drawthru setup.

Aaron

 

[WkillGS]

I know I already posted this in another thread but here is the cam specs for the Lunati cam I was running. I had ported and polished cast iron heads and was running a 3000 stall 9X11 converter. Was actually more like a 9.5X11 converter.

Pat, those specs are close to the Erson I was using. How did your car do in the 1/4?
The Erson had a cool idle, and ran great under boost. It's just the around-town cruising felt sluggish.
My Erson specs aren't too radical...maybe my poor low-end was due to the 7.9 compression I had? Or are all stock TR's dogs in the low end?....I should tell you I only drove my 79 TR in STOCK form ONCE!....around the block. Then took it apart for a hipo rebuild.

I had a KB 3000 converter on there for a short time (it got noisy and killed my trans) that made normal driving even worse....every time I hit the gas, it would slip to 3000 rpm.

 

[WkillGS]

Charlie,

I would love if you posted some info on that...I might be looking at reconsidering my setup in the future for a blowthru/drawthru setup.

Aaron

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but has anyone used engine simulation software to sim our turbo v6?
Dyno2003 is currently avail for download here:
video

scroll down to 'software'.
I've been playing with this for the past couple of weeks for my Nailhead builds. fun!

 

[Pat83t]

The cam is backwards to the current stuff Pat. You need to load the exhaust side to get better results with a turbo. I'll see if I can find the thread on cam design for the turbo cars. Tech info for all of us whether it's SFI or earlier like we are.:smile:

It seemed backward to me too, but they sell it as a turbo cam for street/strip. Still sell it today. Street Strip Hyd Cam - Buick 181-252 V6 260/255 - Lunati Power

Pat, those specs are close to the Erson I was using. How did your car do in the 1/4?
The Erson had a cool idle, and ran great under boost. It's just the around-town cruising felt sluggish.
My Erson specs aren't too radical...maybe my poor low-end was due to the 7.9 compression I had? Or are all stock TR's dogs in the low end?....I should tell you I only drove my 79 TR in STOCK form ONCE!....around the block. Then took it apart for a hipo rebuild.

I had a KB 3000 converter on there for a short time (it got noisy and killed my trans) that made normal driving even worse....every time I hit the gas, it would slip to 3000 rpm.

I was running in the 14's but I hadn't ran it at the track since that cam and converter went in. I had alot of tuning to do and never got back to the track before I sold it.

 

[WkillGS]

never got back to the track before I sold it.

Sold it?? bummer.
I never sell anything... I just stick it in the back of the barn for a decade or so until I feel like working on it again.:tongue:
Anyway, our two cars were probably comparable in performance...14's, could've hit 13's if every thing was right. Figure head mods, bigger cam and some tweaking could make a 13 -14 second Regal.

Has a consensus ever been reached on exactly what mods are necessary to get to a certain level of performance?
In other words, what is the best 1/4 time that could be reached with stock heads/cam/turbo? (15's?)
Ditto with a combo including cam, head work and rear gears.... (13's?)
And at what point would a larger turbo be needed? (12's?).

From scanning thru 15 pages of archives last night, it sounds like the stock intake is one of the things hindering serious performance gains...

 

[charlief1]

This may not look like a thread about cams but read it all. There's some good info in it about cam design. It explains a great deal about how to make a cam and turbo set up work better.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbos-turbo-related-parts/144094-boost-vs-back-pressure.html

 

[mikemcvaney]

camshafts

The cam in my regal has more intake than exhaust lift and this is not the only turbo cams ihave seen like that.Iwould not run more exhaust lift than intake on a turbo car but thats just my opinion Mike

 

[charlief1]

The cam in my regal has more intake than exhaust lift and this is not the only turbo cams ihave seen like that.Iwould not run more exhaust lift than intake on a turbo car but thats just my opinion Mike

The big diff is that you need to load the exhaust Mike. That's why the best design for a turbo is to have more duration and lift on the exhaust side.:biggrin:

 

[dr_frankenstein]

I actually dont think this way in terms of cam dynamics.

to me it depends on how my engine is built, its purpose and its parts

not keying into too much on how it works, i will hint.

I will be using a rather large turbine, that dumps directly from housing, and a set of 86/87 headers so I would say my exhaust flow is rather decent.

now on the intake side, things are a little different. the flow paths are good, but not quite the greatest. My intake is a great improvement over stock, as well as port/valve size but the stock plenum under carb has a few flow issues, it kinda has little eddie currents in strange spots because of its shape, im sure you have flowed yours and noticed it already charlie, but right in the neck due to an exsisting vacuum port. Then compressor has that stupid 90* foot. I hate it... but im giving the it benifit of the doubt for now - thats the single biggest bottle neck in this entire chain. so port port port port port and f ucking port some more right there. is should look like a mirror.


anyways, because I feel the engine has a slightly harder time breathing in, than breathing out so I have chosen my cam to be much heavier on the intake side in duration. however my LSA stays fairly W I D E, which brings my rpm point back in perspective with the range of the turbo. My cam being choosen on a function of volume and not pressure. However, in order for this to be a resonable engine on the street, changes to the engine must be made. hint hint.... think dynamic compression... and its effect on power, and heat... now add the function of flow.

A.j.

 

[charlief1]

I actually dont think this way in terms of cam dynamics.

to me it depends on how my engine is built, its purpose and its parts

not keying into too much on how it works, i will hint.

I will be using a rather large turbine, that dumps directly from housing, and a set of 86/87 headers so I would say my exhaust flow is rather decent.

now on the intake side, things are a little different. the flow paths are good, but not quite the greatest. My intake is a great improvement over stock, as well as port/valve size but the stock plenum under carb has a few flow issues, it kinda has little eddie currents in strange spots because of its shape, im sure you have flowed yours and noticed it already charlie, but right in the neck due to an exsisting vacuum port. Then compressor has that stupid 90* foot. I hate it... but im giving the it benifit of the doubt for now - thats the single biggest bottle neck in this entire chain. so port port port port port and f ucking port some more right there. is should look like a mirror.


anyways, because I feel the engine has a slightly harder time breathing in, than breathing out so I have chosen my cam to be much heavier on the intake side in duration. however my LSA stays fairly W I D E, which brings my rpm point back in perspective with the range of the turbo. My cam being choosen on a function of volume and not pressure. However, in order for this to be a resonable engine on the street, changes to the engine must be made. hint hint.... think dynamic compression... and its effect on power, and heat... now add the function of flow.

A.j.

Well the big thing is getting some sort of ALS effect Aj. You really need to red more about DonWG's post in the alky section. He's acheived an amazing thing. His back pressure is lower than his intake pressure with the ALS effect. He loads the exhaust to do this. You really need to keep up with what he's dong.:biggrin: He tells you all so you know how to do something simular.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Well the big thing is getting some sort of ALS effect Aj. You really need to red more about DonWG's post in the alky section. He's acheived an amazing thing. His back pressure is lower than his intake pressure with the ALS effect. He loads the exhaust to do this. You really need to keep up with what he's dong.:biggrin: He tells you all so you know how to do something simular.

oh trust me, me and Donnie are on the same page... just a little differently.

A.j.

 

[charlief1]

As long as you don't do it in high heels and a mini we're fine Aj.:biggrin: LOL I know how different you like to be sometimes. This is my revenge for last week.:biggrin::tongue: LOL

 

[dr_frankenstein]

As long as you don't do it in high heels and a mini we're fine Aj.:biggrin: LOL I know how different you like to be sometimes. This is my revenge for last week.:biggrin::tongue: LOL

lol I prefer a pink bunny suit

but the heels isnt a bad idea.... I bet I have a great ass in a nice set of pumps.

A.j.

 

[charlief1]

lol I prefer a pink bunny suit

but the heels isnt a bad idea.... I bet I have a great ass in a nice set of pumps.

A.j.

Now that my friend is disturbing, to say the least. LOL

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Now that my friend is disturbing, to say the least. LOL

yea im hard to get. ive heard it all being a squid.

back on track!



A.j.