What is the fastest pass for a TSE car?

[86brick]

Topic pretty much says it all..... I'm just curious cause it seems like the fastest TSM cars (Dave and Roy) are now just as fast or possibly faster than the fastest TSE car That really makes no sense to me considering they (the TSE guys) can run a Stage block and a 3-bolt 76 turbo at close to the same weight (3600lbs)..........

 

[86brick]

^

 

[strikeeagle]

The block doesn't add any power...

 

[TS6]

Sure it does. It adds an extra 30 to 40 cubic inches, which means more power. Not to mention the bigger turbos and stuff they are allowed to run.

 

[strikeeagle]

1. A block OF THE SAME DISPLACEMENT doesn't add any power. Oh, the stage block may make 2 mouse farts more HP due to rigidity, improved oiling, etc.

2. I didn't say anything about turbos.

3. Saying a stage block is faster than a 109 block is just like saying a 9" is faster that a 10 bolt. Actually, it's slower, because it weighs more, and has more mechanical loss. But after the 10 bolt grenades...

 

[86brick]

Originally posted by strikeeagle
1. A block OF THE SAME DISPLACEMENT doesn't add any power. Oh, the stage block may make 2 mouse farts more HP due to rigidity, improved oiling, etc.

2. I didn't say anything about turbos.

3. Saying a stage block is faster than a 109 block is just like saying a 9" is faster that a 10 bolt. Actually, it's slower, because it weighs more, and has more mechanical loss. But after the 10 bolt grenades...

Strike, it is easier to keep the heads on with 14 bolts compared to 8 or did you forget that?! This is a clear advantage and if you don't think so ask many of the faster guys running stock blocks

 

[strikeeagle]

Hey brick,

I'm just givin' ya crap...

Besides, I thought all the really fast 8 bolt guys welded the heads on and brought a half dozen or so spare bullets to the track - cost be damned???

 

[86brick]

Originally posted by strikeeagle
Hey brick,

I'm just givin' ya crap...

Besides, I thought all the really fast 8 bolt guys welded the heads on and brought a half dozen or so spare bullets to the track - cost be damned???

Hehe yeah I honestly don't know how some of these stock block guys keep the heads from lifting (guess good tuning plays a major role in that)....... My whole thinking is if the TSM boys can run in the mid 9's with a 3-bolt 70 turbo and a stock 8-bolt block the TSE boys should at least be bottom 9's (9.teens 9.0hs) with the beefier 14 bolt Stage block and a 3-bolt 76 turbo...... Maybe the TSE boys haven't turned the wick up all the way yet I sure hope they do though cause next year I wouldn't be surprised if we see a TSM car run 9.30's or at least 9.40's

 

[Scott231]

Originally posted by 86brick
My whole thinking is if the TSM boys can run in the mid 9's with a 3-bolt 70 turbo and a stock 8-bolt block the TSE boys should at least be bottom 9's (9.teens 9.0hs) with the beefier 14 bolt Stage block and a 3-bolt 76 turbo.

I agree. There is a 50# weight increase for the Stage motor cars, but with a bigger turbo and the extra head bolts, yes, they should be running faster than TSM. I know of at least one guy that is somewhat walking away from the old addage of how to make a motor go fast since his TSE car "only" runs low-mid 10s.

I sure hope they do though cause next year I wouldn't be surprised if we see a TSM car run 9.30's or at least 9.40's.

Uh, no. Dave or Roy may make it into the low 9.50s, possily a high 9.40 if the weather is even better at Reynolds next year. But I am of the opinion that these guys are at the point of running out of motor.

 

[10SV6]

We might just be seeing the limits of a stock intake manifold with these results.

 

[86brick]

Originally posted by Scott231
Uh, no. Dave or Roy may make it into the low 9.50s, possily a high 9.40 if the weather is even better at Reynolds next year. But I am of the opinion that these guys are at the point of running out of motor. [/B]

Scott, never say never! Plenty of guys thought running 9.60's and 9.50's was not possible, however, Dave and Roy proved them wrong........ I think it's going to be interesting to say the least next year in TSM with all these 9 second cars! It will also be interesting to see if Dave and Roy run their cars in the 109 Outlaw class at the Bradenton event with a bigger turbo (Dave mentioned a 76 GTQ)..... Guess we'll just have to wait and see if they can push the limits any further

 

[86brick]

Originally posted by 10SV6
We might just be seeing the limits of a stock intake manifold with these results.

True.... I wonder if they would really go any faster from swapping over to a BGC intake or a sheetmetal intake??

 

[Foolis]

Intake

Originally posted by 10SV6
We might just be seeing the limits of a stock intake manifold with these results.

I believe the Gallinas ran 8.xx with a stock intake and M+A's.


Foolis

 

[86brick]

Okay does anybody know the answer to my original question.....
"What is the fastest pass for a TSE car?"

I know Willard Brown had run 9.64 @141mph at the '03 BG Nats, but has anybody gone faster than him?? Think somebody may have mentioned to me that Willard has run 9.40's @145mph in TSE trim, but it wasn't at an official TSE race

Oh well I guess the bottom line is the fastest TSM guys (Roy and Dave) are right there with the fastest TSE guys (Willard and Bruce) with a smaller turbo and a stock 8 bolt block!

 

[Buick From Hell]

Originally posted by Scott231
I am of the opinion that these guys are at the point of running out of motor.

Exactly what "they" said in the late 80's about top fuel being able to attain 300 mph!

(just givin' ya a little crap of my own!)

 

[10SV6]

Re: Intake

Originally posted by Foolis
I believe the Gallinas ran 8.xx with a stock intake and M+A's.


Foolis

If you're willing to put the pressure to it, anything's possible. The deal here is the efficency of the 76 turbo. You'll need to get the boost well over 30 psi to cram enough air in. Was that at the 3100 lbs they're at now ?

 

[Nick Micale]

Re: Intake

Originally posted by Foolis
I believe the Gallinas ran 8.xx with a stock intake and M+A's.
Foolis

NOT true!

 

[750H.P.V6]

Nick,

Actually I think the intake/head combo being spoken about was on the 252"engine I bought from Duttweiler that belonged to John Gallina prior to his SSDX configuration. I'm not sure what his best pass was but I do believe it was in the high 8 second range and it did have a stock intake manifold which was heavily re-worked as you might imagine.

Neal

 

[Nick Micale]

Could be Neal, will ask John when I talk with him. I do not think he ran 8's with it, but it could have been another "first" for him!

 

[HighPSI]

IMO, the block isn't the limiting factor, the turbo is. I don't know of any TSE cars with a GT style 76 turbo. They all have the "old school" 76. I wonder how far apart the airflow ratings of both turbos are. Years ago, we found that the 247 ci TSE cars were able to get close to 30 psi out of the 76 while the 274 ci engine could only get around 24. The turbo was more of an equalizer for the class (much like the PT-88 was for TSO). The extra head bolts aren't that great of an advantage when you can't turn the wick up real high and with the invention of head clamps.

Just my .02