What parts are needed to build a GN clone?

[forcefed88]

Hey guys. I am new to this forum and have some questions that you guys will be able to answer. I spent half of yesterday and today looking at all of the exterior differences between GN's and regals.

I sold my 7 sec turbo drag radial mustang 2 years ago, and want to build a street car now. I have wanted a GN for 14 years. I have been looking at buying something already close to finished or I will build new.

The car will have a turbo V8, so I don't really need a T or a GN, that is why I figured I would save some money and start with a regal.

OK, here are my main questions. What body parts are different between just a run of the mill regal and a GN? Are their certain year regals that would be better to start with?

I know the hood, front and rear bumpers, and rear spoiler. Do I have to buy the front and rear bumper fillers? What do I do about a black grill and headlight bezels? Is the front header panel where the headlights bolt into different than on a regal? What about the spoiler below the front bumper? Are the tail lights different? I see that some of the parts just have chrome instead of being black. I assume it can be sanded and painted???

I have done 50 different searches here and on google, and can't find what I am looking for.

I appreciate anyone's help. I know that lots of guys have done clones, I just want to know what parts I need to be looking at to compare the cost of building new vs. buying a car.

Thanks.

 

[INEEDAGN]

84-87 regals are the same sheetmetal wise. Just paint all the chrome black, add the rear spoiler, add the front chin spoilers, fill in the hood ornament hole, and add the turbo bulge hood. The 87 grille, whether chrome or black, is the only one without the wide bar across the top so if you're cloning an 87 you need an 87 grille. The bumpers are the same just paint them. There's more litle things but my newborn is crying.

Do us all a favor and don't put another SBC in a regal GN clone.

 

[INEEDAGN]

Ok have a little more time now. The healight and taillight bezels can be painted black, may not have the exact correct texture and shape on the rear but no one will know. The fillers are the same, header panel is the same with exception of the hood ornament hole. If you buy a limited with all the extra chrome and a vinyl roof you will have additional work of getting rid of all that trim, and maybe cornering lamps in the front fenders to fill in. Take some paint thinner and rub the white stripe out of the bumper rub strips. Front air dams are available from gm and are cheap enough to just go buy new. I have a new set on the car and two more sets in the closet for when the wife drives it. Of course you will need three GN emblems and two intercooled emblems if you so desire. Also had "3.8 sfi turbo" emblems on the hood but they are a huge pain in the ass so just leave them off. The ONLY chrome on the car will be the wheels, paint everything else semi gloss black unless you are using an 86 or earlier grille then the top strip is supposed to be chrome. Drill holes in the trunk and quarter extensions for the spoiler which you will probably find used but I think repro. is available. If it is going to have an interior that is a whole other can of worms. And I stand by my anti chevy remarks.

 

[forcefed88]

Thanks for the input on the differences. Are the chrome window trim pieces difficult to paint?

So a LS1 with an 88mm in a GN clone would be a bad idea in your opinion??? Why do you think a SBC in a GN clone is a bad idea? You would get a much quicker and reliable car for less money. Having a collectible GN would be nice however.

I would build a real GN, but for the cost of modifying everything to run 10's and 11's I can build a LS1 and easily run 9's.

The look of the GN's are great, LS1's are an oustanding engine. I just finished an install of a 6.0l with L92 heads and a procharger in a camaro. At Fastchip it made 670rwhp with only 9#'s. A similar engine with a small turbo would make a killer street car @ 800rwhp.

If I do a clone, it will be a nice car. Not just a beat up black regal with a 350 and double hump heads. My mustang was a very nice car. I tried to post some pics, but I can't since I only have 2 posts. Anyway, it was a 7sec car that I got runner up at the Hot Rod drag radial race in Memphis. The car was in Hot Rod, fastest street car, race pages, 5.0, on espn, etc... It was the quickest drag radial car on 325's at that race in 2005.

I promise I won't be building some junker that would be a discrace to Grand Nationals. I just want the look of what you guys have, with a powerplant that will be easier to make the power I want to have.

Thanks again for your help

 

[forcefed88]

Ok have a little more time now. The healight and taillight bezels can be painted black, may not have the exact correct texture and shape on the rear but no one will know. The fillers are the same, header panel is the same with exception of the hood ornament hole. If you buy a limited with all the extra chrome and a vinyl roof you will have additional work of getting rid of all that trim, and maybe cornering lamps in the front fenders to fill in. Take some paint thinner and rub the white stripe out of the bumper rub strips. Front air dams are available from gm and are cheap enough to just go buy new. I have a new set on the car and two more sets in the closet for when the wife drives it. Of course you will need three GN emblems and two intercooled emblems if you so desire. Also had "3.8 sfi turbo" emblems on the hood but they are a huge pain in the ass so just leave them off. The ONLY chrome on the car will be the wheels, paint everything else semi gloss black unless you are using an 86 or earlier grille then the top strip is supposed to be chrome. Drill holes in the trunk and quarter extensions for the spoiler which you will probably find used but I think repro. is available. If it is going to have an interior that is a whole other can of worms. And I stand by my anti chevy remarks.

I just got done typing a response and then read yours. I understand your anti chevy stand. You feel like the cars should be left what they are. Turbo Buicks right?

Ok, on the trim. I looked at what pics I could find of std regals. Some have chrome trim that is around the quarter glass. Is that black on a GN or just non-existent?

 

[notacarlo]

Do a Turbocharged BUICK 455.

And thanks for not cutting up a TR for your project.

 

[notacarlo]

The 1/4 window trim on a GN is blacked out.

 

[forcefed88]

Do a Turbocharged BUICK 455.

And thanks for not cutting up a TR for your project.

That might be a good route to go. I know nothing about the Buick 455's. My father is a huge pontiac guy. I built a 455 for one of his GTO's. I will have to do some research on heads and blocks.

You're right about not cutting up a TR for what I want to do. It will definitely have a full cage, and obviously the different engine/trans. I don't think it is right to start with a GN when my intentions are just to have the look of the GN with a different powerplant.


Here are the pics of my old car that I raced.
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BTW I am in the car in this pic, not the guy pushing it. :biggrin: There are quite a few pics on his site. It is one of my friend's. I am in no way bragging about what I had, just using it to illustrate that I will be building a nice car, not a pile.

 

[jasjamz]

Go Right Ahead!!

Put your LSX and turbo set up in it!! I think your idea is great, I thought about the same thing. Your right about the price thing and I will have no problem saying GN parts(performance) are overpriced. Hope you get to post pics of the stang. If its turbocharged or supercharged... I like it!

Welcome to the board and keep us posted on your progress.

 

[notacarlo]

I mentioned the 455 so we can have it compete in the Ford/Buick events.

Please go to Welcome To TA Performance

Look at their catalog...there's some good ideas waiting around in there.


Welcome to the forum!

 

[forcefed88]

Put your LSX and turbo set up in it!! I think your idea is great, I thought about the same thing. Your right about the price thing and I will have no problem saying GN parts(performance) are overpriced. Hope you get to post pics of the stang. If its turbocharged or supercharged... I like it!

Welcome to the board and keep us posted on your progress.

I know that I won't be the first or only guy with a LSX in a GN or clone, but it is what I thinking about doing. I was sitting at Thanksgiving dinner with my family thinking about how I used to be so involved with racing and building stuff and now I just work.

So I starting thinking that I wanted a GN (just because I have always loved them) but I wanted an engine that would be easier to make the power that I want. I came home Thursday and got on the computer and came across your guy's site. I had a fairly built Syclone 7 years ago. It was a pain in the ass. I don't want to buy a GN and replace half of the car to run 10's. 10's and 11's are very quick, especially with a V6. I just want more since I am starting from scratch. I know that most of you would do things differently with your car if you had it to do over again. My green mustang started out as a 11 sec street car. It worked it's way to a 9sec street/strip car, then 8's and would get driven to car shows, to 7's and being worked on 2-3 hours for every 45 secs of run time. Over the course of the 9 years that I had that car I built 12 engines, upgraded basically everything on the car 5 or 6 times, 8 different trans, paxton's, 4 different Prochargers when I worked there, and 3 different turbos. I know now that I want to pretty much plan and build once, then have fun with it.

 

[budget_crx]

I had a fairly built Syclone 7 years ago. It was a pain in the ass. I don't want to buy a GN and replace half of the car to run 10's.

Syclones and Buicks: HUGE difference. Don't assume the 3.8s are as "reliable" as the 4.3s :biggrin:

 

[forcefed88]

I mentioned the 455 so we can have it compete in the Ford/Buick events.

Please go to Welcome To TA Performance

Look at their catalog...there's some good ideas waiting around in there.


Welcome to the forum!

Man guys, I really appreciate the advice, input and welcoming me to your site. I hate being the new guy asking questions that are obvious to probably everyone on here, but hey I have to start somewhere.

I didn't even think about the buick engine so it would fit in Buick events. I really got burned out traveling with my mustang and wasn't really building a car to race. I want another street car that is really too fast to even do anything with on the street.

I do like the idea of having all buick though. The Stage 2 TE heads on the TA Perf site look pretty good. I can't find their data on the stage 4 heads. Are there any Buick heads that compare to BBC heads??? I guess that the intake and exhaust pattern limits what they can do with them.

Thanks again for everything guys.

 

[INEEDAGN]

Forgot to mention that the bumpers are gloss black. Rear window trim is there but painted semi gloss.

I am one of those guys that hates seeing sbcs stuffed into everything. An LS motor is better than some old POS but not by enough to see it in everything. The GN is cool because of the V6. It can make incredible power and get 20's mpg with A/C and cruise. At the power level you are talking it probably is cheaper to go LS but when it gets attention people will think you yanked out the 6 because they can't make power. For what it's worth I would hate it stuffed in an olds or pontiac too, and would hate to see an olds or pontiac in a chevy, or a regal, you get the picture. If you want chevy build a monte carlo because everyone's going to think it's a monte anyway, LOL.

All BS aside it's your project and you can do whatever, this is just my opinion and I'm sure at least some others would agree. If I really hated you for it I wouldn't have replied, because I knew before you told me what you meant by a turbo v8. Maybe I'm being a dick but at least you know what I really think.

Hope this helps.

bob

 

[INEEDAGN]

Just noticed that you worked for procharger. Still in the KC area? Probably saw your mustang at the last fun ford weekend at heartland park. What issue of hot rod was it in?

 

[kraus]

1st off that mustang you had WOW.If you put as much time in this REGAL as you did in that stang I don't give to craps if its a chevy or buick motor it will plan and simply be COOL. I HAD A 84 REGAL that had a 302 DZ chevy motor in it,it was painted bright yellow had all the trim blacked out. But always fell into the its not a GN, when people looked at it.Which at that time i didn't care cuz it was mine and it was different.I waited 10 years to buy my 87 and now it's how fast is ,or i remember when these cars came out.Or the vette guys i get my butt kicked by these cars.Anyways no matter what you do it will be yours and i'm glad your not cutting up a GN to do it.Good luck and so far bumpers,trim and all other stuff they said have ya covered.I have a couple extra parts laying around if ya need em let me know.

 

[forcefed88]

Just noticed that you worked for procharger. Still in the KC area? Probably saw your mustang at the last fun ford weekend at heartland park. What issue of hot rod was it in?

Yep, still in KC. I didn't run at the FFW. I don't remember why though. I ran there several times when they had a drag radial race. I ran at 2 of the NMRA races at KCIR. It was in Dec '06 of Hot Rod. It was in the drag radial shootout even coverage.

I understand your reasoning behind not wanting to see a SBC in every type of car. Obviously the LS1 is a completely different family, but still a SBC.

You know I may just buy a GN and keep the V6. I don't know enough about them to make an educated opinion. It just seems like everything has to be built and replaced to run reliable 10's. Like I said, that is just my quick observation. I have had several friends with TR's and they seemed pretty temperamental. I am going to do a lot of research on here about keeping the V6. I don't want to start a thread with something like "what does it take to run 10's". I know all the info is here already.

1st off that mustang you had WOW.If you put as much time in this REGAL as you did in that stang I don't give to craps if its a chevy or buick motor it will plan and simply be COOL. I HAD A 84 REGAL that had a 302 DZ chevy motor in it,it was painted bright yellow had all the trim blacked out. But always fell into the its not a GN, when people looked at it.Which at that time i didn't care cuz it was mine and it was different.I waited 10 years to buy my 87 and now it's how fast is ,or i remember when these cars came out.Or the vette guys i get my butt kicked by these cars.Anyways no matter what you do it will be yours and i'm glad your not cutting up a GN to do it.Good luck and so far bumpers,trim and all other stuff they said have ya covered.I have a couple extra parts laying around if ya need em let me know.

Thanks a lot for the compliments. It was a great car. I had a great time racing it, but the budget for a car like that is out of control. I maxxed out too many credit cards just so I could be at the top. You are right, no matter what I do I will like it because it will be mine. I won't buy a TR and cut it up. I will either build a clone or a TR with the 6.

 

[kraus]

ive had just 6 clinder regals they where junk,but add this lil turbo and holy crude different animal.My wife has driven my gn 2 or three times and wishes here lil 3800 gt grand prix had a Turbo.I personally would stay with the 6 and add the turbo.I have only owned my gn 6 months and in that time I have learned alot and continue to learn more.Thes guys are great for info and helping ya out,plus there is plenty to read in old material.So good luck in whatever you do and hope to see some progress pics when you get it all straightened away.

 

[notacarlo]

Buick Stage heads for the 455 are the bar as far as all developed SBC and BBC motors - meaning most of those heads used the Buick engineering in one way or another. Part for part, they out perform ANY cylinder head for a SBC/BBC.

Yes, I am biased.

 

[Kevin87TurboT]

First off, Jeremy, Welcome to the TB website. I remember your car from the '05 Drag Radial shootout at Memphis. Even though Wade is a friend of mine and I was cheering for him, I remember thinking that he was going to have his hands full with that very clean Mustang. You almost pulled it off. But then the track went away for the finals. If memory serves correct, you had gone a 7.84 at during TNT just before the event. Very Impressive!!!

I'm working on an '86 T-type w/ 6.0L and soon to be twin 66s. I also have 2 turbo V6 Buicks and one non-turbo (VIN A) Buick. If you had said that you wanted a 10 second car, I'd say stay with the V6...maybe even for a 9.9x car, but much quicker than that, you'll have reliability issues.

If you do decide to go the V6 route, here are a few threads to read.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/time-slip-combo-database/232586-10-16-132-21-a.html#post1705045
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/233136-9-95-finally-wow.html
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/ge...230961-melissas-secret-9-94-138-17-combo.html
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/alcohol-nitrous-propane-tech/218090-congrats-jc.html

Here's some good reading if you go the LS route.
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-v8-conversions/225042-cals-turbo-lsx-gn.html

Good Luck!!!!