What the hell happened to my motor.

evil666

Active Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2004
Last year I got a new 109 motor built and after 500 miles the main bearings were finished. Got the same block recheck from a different machine shop, since the first machine shop sayed they did nothing wrong. According to this other machine shop they said everthing was fine and that the linebore was staight, and that everything was ok. So since I didn't want to put the motor back without making any changes at all I decided get the 2 center main oil passages on the block drill out to 3/8 of an inch (bearings 1/4 inch and 19/64 inch). I use a speedpro high volume pump with the timing chain cover modifications and a deep oil pan from RJC. The specks on the main bearings were all .0015 which is suppose to be good. Since I put an f body rad and the RJC oil pan I have no more oil cooler which I was told by many people it wouldn't affect anything. I posted a few pictures of the main bearings, so maybe some of you guys on this board could tell me what might have gone wrong.

Oh ya, the machine shop thinks that my bearings let go because I used ZDDP. I use a flat tappet cam.

Thanks,
Marco

This is my new set-up: T-Top 86 Grand Nationals 109 block with weisco forged pistons and 2 billet center main caps, M&A aluminum heads, roller rockers, port match lower intake ,te63 a.r .82, erson 214/214 cam, razor alky injection, 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, kenne bell headers, 60 lbs injectors, extender alky chip with 23/21 timing, with a gen 2 with a LS1 maf,thdp, mease 24 row IC, PTC 3200 stall 9 1/2 convertor, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/60/15) , rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms, Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filt

T-Top 86 Grand National 62000 km)
stock long block, stock suspension, 12 inch red stripe convertor (2800stall), te44, smc alk injection (95 % etanol), 25.5lbs boost,( boost spike 28 psi in 1st gear), 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, 42 ½ lbs 009 injectors, turbotweak alky chip with 23/21 timing, thdp, mease 24 row IC, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/50/15) 3720lbs race weight with driver. (Torque convertor locked only after car shifted in third), rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, comp cam 980 valve springs. Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust cut-out.
BEST E/T
60FT=1.53
1/8= 7.25
1/4= 11.48
MPH=120.82
BEST 60FT=1.52

I have a gen 2 with an extender chip and LS1 maf, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms. MT 275/60/15 drag radials. Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filter. The times above were done with out these parts
 

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what brand/ part number are those?

The brand is clevite. The part# from left to right is:

MB2491P lower clevite 77 b-1
MB2433P upper clevite 77 b-1

MB2433P lower clevite 77 b-1
MB2433P upper clevite 77 b-1

MB2434P lower clevite 77 a-1
MB2434P upper clevite 77 a-2

MB2491P upper clevite 77 a-1
MB2433P lower clevite 77 b-1

Thanks,
Marco

This is my new set-up: T-Top 86 Grand Nationals 109 block with weisco forged pistons and 2 billet center main caps, M&A aluminum heads, roller rockers, port match lower intake ,te63 a.r .82, erson 214/214 cam, razor alky injection, 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, kenne bell headers, 60 lbs injectors, extender alky chip with 23/21 timing, with a gen 2 with a LS1 maf,thdp, mease 24 row IC, PTC 3200 stall 9 1/2 convertor, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/60/15) , rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms, Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filt

T-Top 86 Grand National 62000 km)
stock long block, stock suspension, 12 inch red stripe convertor (2800stall), te44, smc alk injection (95 % etanol), 25.5lbs boost,( boost spike 28 psi in 1st gear), 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, 42 ½ lbs 009 injectors, turbotweak alky chip with 23/21 timing, thdp, mease 24 row IC, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/50/15) 3720lbs race weight with driver. (Torque convertor locked only after car shifted in third), rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, comp cam 980 valve springs. Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust cut-out.
BEST E/T
60FT=1.53
1/8= 7.25
1/4= 11.48
MPH=120.82
BEST 60FT=1.52

I have a gen 2 with an extender chip and LS1 maf, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms. MT 275/60/15 drag radials. Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filter. The times above were done with out these parts
 
if i'm not mistaken, i've heard of a few motors with bad or even spun mains using the "P" bearings.
 
I wouldn't put the blame on the bearings just yet, from the pictures it sure looks as if you've had some kind of contamination going on, it sure looks as though the lead has been attacked by an acid effect, I'd go as far to look at your alky setup, bad switch? causing alky to load pan? something deffinately doesen't like the lead in the bearings. Good luck.


Kevin.
 
#1 main looks to have been worn on the edge. Bad line bore? crank journal tapered?
#2 main and the thrust main looks to have been run tight at the parting lines. Could be a sign of excessive crush, or the bores are out of round. It's the area @ the parting lines that should have the added clearance so the edges of the brg shells don't scrape the oil film off the crank.
"2 billet center main caps".. could have been improperly installed.
If the guy that told you the tale about ZDDP, is the same guy that installed the caps...SLAP HIM, and find another shop.
What do the parting lines on the caps/block look like?
Kevin's comment on alky contamination could also add to lack of lube film strength by diluting the oil. Oil sample test time??
 
Id have another shop check that line bore.
 
Personally I would not run Mains that tight, .0020 if you are beating on it. jmo.
 
Mine looked just like that at 2000 miles when I had 0 psi at idle. My shop believed oil starvation and the fact that the stock crank was .0001 too tight according to their measurements was the reason.
 
Mine looked just like that at 2000 miles when I had 0 psi at idle. My shop believed oil starvation and the fact that the stock crank was .0001 too tight according to their measurements was the reason.

.001 or .0001?
 
I would avoid 28lbs in first gear when you get it all back together.
 
Thats the funniest thing i have heard in sometime. :eek:[/QUOTE

Well to be honest the machine shop said that he thinks an oil additif caused the failure to the bearings, but he doesn't know I used ZDDP.

if i'm not mistaken, i've heard of a few motors with bad or even spun mains using the "P" bearings.

Could anybody else confirm this?

I wouldn't put the blame on the bearings just yet, from the pictures it sure looks as if you've had some kind of contamination going on, it sure looks as though the lead has been attacked by an acid effect, I'd go as far to look at your alky setup, bad switch? causing alky to load pan? something deffinately doesen't like the lead in the bearings. Good luck.

I really don't think so, but if that was the case I sold my old smc and bought a razor.

#1 main looks to have been worn on the edge. Bad line bore? crank journal tapered?
#2 main and the thrust main looks to have been run tight at the parting lines. Could be a sign of excessive crush, or the bores are out of round. It's the area @ the parting lines that should have the added clearance so the edges of the brg shells don't scrape the oil film off the crank.
"2 billet center main caps".. could have been improperly installed.
If the guy that told you the tale about ZDDP, is the same guy that installed the caps...SLAP HIM, and find another shop.
What do the parting lines on the caps/block look like?
Kevin's comment on alky contamination could also add to lack of lube film strength by diluting the oil. Oil sample test time??

I am not sure what you really mean by the parting lines on the cap or block, but if you are trying to say how the block and caps looked without the bearing, well they looked fine. I can't take a picture of this because the short block is rebuilt already.

Id have another shop check that line bore.

Yes that is what I did because the first shop didn't want to take any responsability about what happened. The new shop I got said that the line bore was staight and that they couldn't see anything wrong with the motor apart from the contamination of the oil caused by an additif. The machine shops and the engine builder are not the same peolpe working on the motor. The engine builder is a member on this forum (JB Racing) which has built alot of motors with good success. His car runs great, 109 block with alky 10.20 at 136.

The specks on the main bearings were all .0015 which is suppose to be good.

maybe a little "tight" with your new set up :confused: thats good on a stocker.. your new set up isn't near that..

These are the specks to my new block:
Here are the numbers again for the mains and the Rods.
MAINS
1 - .0015
2 - .0018
3 - .0015
4 - .002

RODS
1- .0016
2 - .0015
3 - .0017
4 - .0016
5 - .0015
6 - .0015

drilled Holes in the Main # 2 ( 1/4" ) and # 3 ( 19/64 ) the #1 and # 4 were big already.


Thanks that is a nice guide.

I would avoid 28lbs in first gear when you get it all back together.[/QUOTE

Yes I will really try to avoid that, but the only problem is that I can't get less than 20 lbs of boost on a warm day with my new set up.

Thanks everyone for your help and advice.
Marco

This is my new set-up: T-Top 86 Grand Nationals 109 block with weisco forged pistons and 2 billet center main caps, M&A aluminum heads, roller rockers, port match lower intake ,te63 a.r .82, erson 214/214 cam, razor alky injection, 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, kenne bell headers, 60 lbs injectors, extender alky chip with 23/21 timing, with a gen 2 with a LS1 maf,thdp, mease 24 row IC, PTC 3200 stall 9 1/2 convertor, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/60/15) , rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms, Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filt

T-Top 86 Grand National 62000 km)
stock long block, stock suspension, 12 inch red stripe convertor (2800stall), te44, smc alk injection (95 % etanol), 25.5lbs boost,( boost spike 28 psi in 1st gear), 94 octane, hooker cat back with dyno max ultra flow muffers, 42 ½ lbs 009 injectors, turbotweak alky chip with 23/21 timing, thdp, mease 24 row IC, Ron Custom max boost brake module, MT drag radials (275/50/15) 3720lbs race weight with driver. (Torque convertor locked only after car shifted in third), rjc power plate, rjc boost controller, zeitronix wideband, HR motor mounts, comp cam 980 valve springs. Weld Drag Lites with skinnies up front, electric exhaust cut-out.
BEST E/T
60FT=1.53
1/8= 7.25
1/4= 11.48
MPH=120.82
BEST 60FT=1.52

I have a gen 2 with an extender chip and LS1 maf, hr rear sway bar, no front sway bar, 90/10 lakewood in the front and 50/50 lakewood shocks in the rear with energy suspension poly bushings all over, boxed rear lower control arms. MT 275/60/15 drag radials. Big mouth cold air with an AFE air filter. The times above were done with out these parts
 
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