what the hell is wrong with people?!
- Thread starter Vendor Defendor
- Start date
Originally posted by GRAYGHOST
I'd be interested in finding out more about your studies, and how I can study them myself.
I really just studied on my own. I must admit that MY TIME has became more of planning, teaching and directing the children's ministry.
After learning more about the Bible, there are questions that are hard to answer. Don't get me wrong, I believe in God, and that Jesus died for our sins, and the Bible. But after living in this world for 31 years and trying to raise 3 children and marraige, etc., etc.. I come up with questions that are really hard to answer according to the Christian beliefs.
Give me a example of one of the questions.
I'd be interested in finding out more about your studies, and how I can study them myself.
I really just studied on my own. I must admit that MY TIME has became more of planning, teaching and directing the children's ministry.
After learning more about the Bible, there are questions that are hard to answer. Don't get me wrong, I believe in God, and that Jesus died for our sins, and the Bible. But after living in this world for 31 years and trying to raise 3 children and marraige, etc., etc.. I come up with questions that are really hard to answer according to the Christian beliefs.
Give me a example of one of the questions.
MissingMyBuick
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2002
I think TurboMike covered most of what I was going to get into, and he did a great job. I, personally have not studied apologetics. My father has done much studying of it though. I should see if I can get him on here.
I found this on a website. This is regarding evolution.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics -- This is my all-time favorite. To refute this law, you either have to be a liar or ignorant of science totally. This law tells us that anything which is organized , tends with time, to become disorganized. Any physical system left to itself will decay, or , lose energy and organization within the system. Instead of being highly organized like our earth's system, everything tends to become gradually disorganized. Chemical processes will reach equilibrium then become inert. In other words, this law says the increase of information required for a life form to evolve could not happen as this increase in information by itself violates the law. Evolutionists would have you believe in a constant increase in order strictly by chance millions of times. Not possible!! In fact, evolutionists have cited ice cubes and bridges as an example of this law being violated. Absurd! Both of these things reach a peak of "order", but from then on are degrading. Besides, these things are "created", so of course they would tend to start off "ordered". Neither of these things, or anything else, can assemble itself from raw materials.
ASIDE: Evolutionists commonly object that the Second Law applies to closed, or isolated systems, and that the Earth is certainly not a closed system (it gets lots of raw energy from the Sun, for example). However, all systems, whether open or closed, tend to deteriorate. For example, living organisms are open systems but they all decay and die. Also, the universe in total is a closed system. To say that the chaos of the big bang has transformed itself into the human brain with its 120 trillion connections is a clear violation of the Second Law.
It was found on this website.
http://evolutionlie.faithweb.com/
Also, if evolution truly happened why are there no missing links. Wouldn't we have millions of them?
And, I am sure a lot of you have heard this before, but humans only give birth to humans; dogs give birth to dogs; bald eagles give birth to bald eagles; Leopard geckos only give birth to leopard geckos. Do you see where I am getting at here?
I found this on a website. This is regarding evolution.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics -- This is my all-time favorite. To refute this law, you either have to be a liar or ignorant of science totally. This law tells us that anything which is organized , tends with time, to become disorganized. Any physical system left to itself will decay, or , lose energy and organization within the system. Instead of being highly organized like our earth's system, everything tends to become gradually disorganized. Chemical processes will reach equilibrium then become inert. In other words, this law says the increase of information required for a life form to evolve could not happen as this increase in information by itself violates the law. Evolutionists would have you believe in a constant increase in order strictly by chance millions of times. Not possible!! In fact, evolutionists have cited ice cubes and bridges as an example of this law being violated. Absurd! Both of these things reach a peak of "order", but from then on are degrading. Besides, these things are "created", so of course they would tend to start off "ordered". Neither of these things, or anything else, can assemble itself from raw materials.
ASIDE: Evolutionists commonly object that the Second Law applies to closed, or isolated systems, and that the Earth is certainly not a closed system (it gets lots of raw energy from the Sun, for example). However, all systems, whether open or closed, tend to deteriorate. For example, living organisms are open systems but they all decay and die. Also, the universe in total is a closed system. To say that the chaos of the big bang has transformed itself into the human brain with its 120 trillion connections is a clear violation of the Second Law.
It was found on this website.
http://evolutionlie.faithweb.com/
Also, if evolution truly happened why are there no missing links. Wouldn't we have millions of them?
And, I am sure a lot of you have heard this before, but humans only give birth to humans; dogs give birth to dogs; bald eagles give birth to bald eagles; Leopard geckos only give birth to leopard geckos. Do you see where I am getting at here?
Admittedly, thats a little hard to follow. So basically it says that evolution is impossible because nothing advances, it just deteriorates? How then does it explain the very obvious signs of evolution, like animals with specific features for hunting, and what about dinosaurs and the link to current dinosaur like creatures, like komodo dragons, and crocodiles? A very simple example would be the newer breeds of dogs. Cross breeding dogs has produced new breeds, that did not exist before. God did not create them, they did. Look at seeing eye dogs and police dogs. You don't think that if we trained every dog like this, that in 1000 years all dogs would not be superior? Dogs are nothing but domesticated wolves, and look what weve made of them. They are barely wolf like any more. Many things have changed to accomodate their surroundings, that is evolution. We as people have evolved. Look at cavemen, they were stone simple. Now look at us. I'd say weve advanced pretty far, wouldn't you? If evolution is not real, how do you explain the beings that are unearthed, that look human but have very different builds and bone structures?
MissingMyBuick
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2002
What you are talking about is called micro evolution. This is when there are changes within the species, but that species does not become another species. Macroevolution is when a species becomes a completely different species ( this is the one I don't agree with). Maybe someone else a little more knowledgeable will chime in on this. Also, What cavemen? I have never seen any true evidence that they ever existed. Wouldn't there be millions of them? How come scientists have a hard time even coming up with one. They have turned out to be a hoax. Do some research, why are there only a few candidates for any of the "early men".
MissingMyBuick
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2002
Very funny!!! 
It is necessary to have a sense of humor, even when dealing with topics like this where a lot of people get all worked up, including myself.
It is necessary to have a sense of humor, even when dealing with topics like this where a lot of people get all worked up, including myself.MissingMyBuick
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2002
If there isn't, then oh well. But like what was said earlier, what if you live your life not believing in Heaven or Hell, and it turns out that it really is there? My opinion is that it is more logical to believe just in case.
Maybe I just get a special news channel, but didn't they unearth some body reported to be extremely old, like thousands of years? They were frozen in ice. Someone had to draw all those pictures on the cave walls, didn't they? Cavemen are a hoax? You believe in a ficticious being (God) and worship him and cavemen are a hoax? We didn't just sprout up in 1950 dude, we've been around for awhile. The concept of human life dating back to then is far more realistic than the idea of god.
I think people are hung up on the idea that there has to be more to life than this. Face it, probably not. The logical thing to believe is we just stop being. No more. The end. Maybe its just because the world sucks so bad, and people are so disappointed with their lives, it gives them hope or at least something to look forward to. Better make the most of your life here, cuz when you die, theres a good chance you just die.
Your opinion is more logical to believe? Its your opinion, yes, but logical, I don't think so. So if I say I'm god, you should worship me, and of course you won't, but what if I am? You would be screwed. Better worship me, just in case. Doesn't that sound dumb? I don't think you can use the word "logic" when discussing religions and beliefs. "Logic" tells you that a lot of the stuff in the bible could not happen in real life. Virgins don't immaculately concieve, people don't talk to god, and he doesn't talk back. There are no giants, or any of the other ficticious type characters you might read about in the bible. You would never believe one story out of the bible if I said it happened to me last week, but you believe it happened so many years ago? Why?
I think people are hung up on the idea that there has to be more to life than this. Face it, probably not. The logical thing to believe is we just stop being. No more. The end. Maybe its just because the world sucks so bad, and people are so disappointed with their lives, it gives them hope or at least something to look forward to. Better make the most of your life here, cuz when you die, theres a good chance you just die.
Your opinion is more logical to believe? Its your opinion, yes, but logical, I don't think so. So if I say I'm god, you should worship me, and of course you won't, but what if I am? You would be screwed. Better worship me, just in case. Doesn't that sound dumb? I don't think you can use the word "logic" when discussing religions and beliefs. "Logic" tells you that a lot of the stuff in the bible could not happen in real life. Virgins don't immaculately concieve, people don't talk to god, and he doesn't talk back. There are no giants, or any of the other ficticious type characters you might read about in the bible. You would never believe one story out of the bible if I said it happened to me last week, but you believe it happened so many years ago? Why?
MissingMyBuick
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2002
Oh, I believe that there were people that lived in caves. But I don't believe in what most people refer to as cavemen. You know all of the different ones ( homo habilis, homo erectus, etc.). If they existed why can't we find them? We find lot's of dinosaur bones, but not the "cavemen"? I am of the opinion that man has existed in his current state since the very beginning. I believe that the book of Genesis ( first book of the Bible) tells it exactly how it is. I believe that man was created on the sixth day of creation, in God's own image. You can read it for yourself if you want to verify what I am saying. I know for some people it sounds like a bunch of horse hockey, but that is what I believe. I also believe that the Earth is only several thousand years old. Not millions or billions. Check out this link.
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c007.html
I think maybe my last statement was misunderstood. I am not saying that I believe just in case there is a God. I was just saying why not believe in God?
I know a lot of the stories in the Bible seem impossible, but that is where my faith comes in to play. I believe that the whole Bible is the inerrant Word of God. I believe that it was all inspired by him. You don't have to agree with me. I am just stating my beliefs and also pointing out a few things to think about.
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c007.html
I think maybe my last statement was misunderstood. I am not saying that I believe just in case there is a God. I was just saying why not believe in God?
I know a lot of the stories in the Bible seem impossible, but that is where my faith comes in to play. I believe that the whole Bible is the inerrant Word of God. I believe that it was all inspired by him. You don't have to agree with me. I am just stating my beliefs and also pointing out a few things to think about.
turbosam6, I'm with ya 110%.
Here's my take on it:
I think it's great that people belive in it and I would NEVER try to convince anybody differently. One of my very best friends is heavily into church and it makes him a better person. I don't ask for Gods help when in a crisis, I dig deep into myself and get myself through it on my own and it makes me a stronger person b/c of it. I bet I live closer to the bibles "standards" than a lot of church going people b/c that's is my personality not b/c of what I believe in.
Where did the bible come from? It is put together from passeges written by many different people. Each person had their own INTERPRETATION of events and beliefs so they wrote things down. Then people took info from those different writings and put it into a book and called it the Bible. Who says that those who originally wrote those pieces interpreted "IT" correctly? Who says that the people puting those passages into the bible were correct and chose the correct writings? Now there are hundreds of religeous organazations who "interpret" what the bible says, so who is correct? Maybe there is more than one God. Why not? Maybe there are 100's of them and each one has their own "level" of "powers" and duties. Maybe one per galaxi, we just don't know. After all, MAN wrote it and interpretation is a human thing that people can see differently on.
I beleive that the bible was put together as a governing/law book to help govern/control a society. Back in the days people were more fearing of a lightening storm or whatever (from lack of understanding) so things were developed either to scare people into staying in line or just to have an ethical way of living-which may have been a good thing, I dunno.
Yes there are "cavemen" and different levels of "evolution" that have been classified into catagories. Remember Lucy? There have been thousands of skeletal remains found but b/c it's no big deal anymore they don't pop up in the daily newspaper. There are/were "caveman" skeletons at the UNL Morril Hall for years along with a Sabor Tooth tiger, wooly mamoth, etc...
Piece
ks
Here's my take on it:
I think it's great that people belive in it and I would NEVER try to convince anybody differently. One of my very best friends is heavily into church and it makes him a better person. I don't ask for Gods help when in a crisis, I dig deep into myself and get myself through it on my own and it makes me a stronger person b/c of it. I bet I live closer to the bibles "standards" than a lot of church going people b/c that's is my personality not b/c of what I believe in.
Where did the bible come from? It is put together from passeges written by many different people. Each person had their own INTERPRETATION of events and beliefs so they wrote things down. Then people took info from those different writings and put it into a book and called it the Bible. Who says that those who originally wrote those pieces interpreted "IT" correctly? Who says that the people puting those passages into the bible were correct and chose the correct writings? Now there are hundreds of religeous organazations who "interpret" what the bible says, so who is correct? Maybe there is more than one God. Why not? Maybe there are 100's of them and each one has their own "level" of "powers" and duties. Maybe one per galaxi, we just don't know. After all, MAN wrote it and interpretation is a human thing that people can see differently on.
I beleive that the bible was put together as a governing/law book to help govern/control a society. Back in the days people were more fearing of a lightening storm or whatever (from lack of understanding) so things were developed either to scare people into staying in line or just to have an ethical way of living-which may have been a good thing, I dunno.
Yes there are "cavemen" and different levels of "evolution" that have been classified into catagories. Remember Lucy? There have been thousands of skeletal remains found but b/c it's no big deal anymore they don't pop up in the daily newspaper. There are/were "caveman" skeletons at the UNL Morril Hall for years along with a Sabor Tooth tiger, wooly mamoth, etc...
Piece
ks
Just got a few extra minutes...
Hey Kevins...been awhile.
You said, "Where did the bible come from? It is put together from passeges written by many different people. Each person had their own INTERPRETATION of events and beliefs so they wrote things down. Then people took info from those different writings and put it into a book and called it the Bible.. ..
...I beleive that the bible was put together as a governing/law book to help govern/control a society. Back in the days people were more fearing of a lightening storm or whatever (from lack of understanding) so things were developed either to scare people into staying in line or just to have an ethical way of living-which may have been a good thing, I dunno."...
Have you ever studied the origin of the Bible even from a Secular viewpoint???
turbosam,
So would you say your belief system is based on Science???
Hey Kevins...been awhile.
You said, "Where did the bible come from? It is put together from passeges written by many different people. Each person had their own INTERPRETATION of events and beliefs so they wrote things down. Then people took info from those different writings and put it into a book and called it the Bible.. ..
...I beleive that the bible was put together as a governing/law book to help govern/control a society. Back in the days people were more fearing of a lightening storm or whatever (from lack of understanding) so things were developed either to scare people into staying in line or just to have an ethical way of living-which may have been a good thing, I dunno."...
Have you ever studied the origin of the Bible even from a Secular viewpoint???
turbosam,
So would you say your belief system is based on Science???
Ya know Mike, I never really thought about it. I am one of those people who believes nothing but what I've seen, or can be proven to me by trustworthy individuals. Like I said, if God came down today, and said what was right and what was wrong, I would follow him. Unless, of course, his "rules" were what I felt were wrong. Like if God said murder was OK, I still would not do it. I'm with Kevins here, I feel I am a good person, maybe I don't follow a religion, but I believe in the golden rule: Do unto others as you'd have done to you. Its simple. I also believe eye for an eye. I know revenge is probably "wrong", but I feel its justified, to an extent.
One thing I think affects my thinking on religion and faith, is that most of my life I've been let down when placing trust or faith in other people. Its hard for me to let go of something and let someone else do it. So I have a hard time trusting people, or believing that someone else will be able to do what I need them to do. I think this is largely from my dad, he let me down a lot when I was a kid. I have no "faith" in anything anymore. The good part about that it you don't get disappointed much. You come to expect the worst, and its no longer a suprise when things go wrong. For example: When I was a kid, my dad would make plans with me to go fishing on saturday. I only got to see him on the weekends, as my parents were divorced. But he would never show. It crushed me, but after a few times, I learned to expect it, and wasn't disappointed to much. A little, yes, but not as bad as the first time. I feel like placing blind faith in a god will leave me in that position again, unless he can prove otherwise to me.
Missingmybuick, you kinda remind me of the "just in case" christian. You seem like you don't really believe what you say, just that you do it just in case its right. I think thats worse than just flat out not believing. I think that if there is a heaven and hell, and no in between, that I should go to heaven. I never intentionally wrong anyone, I'm a good person, I don't lie, cheat, steal, or harm anyone. I do good deeds when I can, and don't even do many of the "normal" bad things, like drink alcohol, do drugs, sleep around, etc. If I must go to hell for simply questioning gods existence, well then his religion is even dumber than I thought. Why could I not go to heaven, where god could explain his existence and beliefs to me. I can tell you, I am a better person than many I know who go to church, and believe in god.
Also, what is heaven described as in your religion? I'm just curious, I really have never heard specifics. Is it just whatever you really like, or is it the same for everyone? Ones idea of heaven could be very different from anothers. Is there an unlimited supply of virgins, race gas, and steaks? Or is it only clouds and harps?
In a nutshell, heres my beliefs: I do not believe in god right now. That may change, if it can be somehow proven to me. But I do believe that if theres a heaven and hell, that a fair and kind god could not let me go to hell. If convicted murderers on death row can be saved at the last minute, I'd damn well better be let in heaven. If god can say "well, he killed 50 people but believed in me, so he's cool", but also can say "well, he's a good guy but doubted my existence, so to hell with him", then theres some serious flaws in his plan and heaven is full of murderers.
One thing I think affects my thinking on religion and faith, is that most of my life I've been let down when placing trust or faith in other people. Its hard for me to let go of something and let someone else do it. So I have a hard time trusting people, or believing that someone else will be able to do what I need them to do. I think this is largely from my dad, he let me down a lot when I was a kid. I have no "faith" in anything anymore. The good part about that it you don't get disappointed much. You come to expect the worst, and its no longer a suprise when things go wrong. For example: When I was a kid, my dad would make plans with me to go fishing on saturday. I only got to see him on the weekends, as my parents were divorced. But he would never show. It crushed me, but after a few times, I learned to expect it, and wasn't disappointed to much. A little, yes, but not as bad as the first time. I feel like placing blind faith in a god will leave me in that position again, unless he can prove otherwise to me.
Missingmybuick, you kinda remind me of the "just in case" christian. You seem like you don't really believe what you say, just that you do it just in case its right. I think thats worse than just flat out not believing. I think that if there is a heaven and hell, and no in between, that I should go to heaven. I never intentionally wrong anyone, I'm a good person, I don't lie, cheat, steal, or harm anyone. I do good deeds when I can, and don't even do many of the "normal" bad things, like drink alcohol, do drugs, sleep around, etc. If I must go to hell for simply questioning gods existence, well then his religion is even dumber than I thought. Why could I not go to heaven, where god could explain his existence and beliefs to me. I can tell you, I am a better person than many I know who go to church, and believe in god.
Also, what is heaven described as in your religion? I'm just curious, I really have never heard specifics. Is it just whatever you really like, or is it the same for everyone? Ones idea of heaven could be very different from anothers. Is there an unlimited supply of virgins, race gas, and steaks? Or is it only clouds and harps?
In a nutshell, heres my beliefs: I do not believe in god right now. That may change, if it can be somehow proven to me. But I do believe that if theres a heaven and hell, that a fair and kind god could not let me go to hell. If convicted murderers on death row can be saved at the last minute, I'd damn well better be let in heaven. If god can say "well, he killed 50 people but believed in me, so he's cool", but also can say "well, he's a good guy but doubted my existence, so to hell with him", then theres some serious flaws in his plan and heaven is full of murderers.
Also, missingmybuick, one more thing: If god created man in his own image, and we have existed as we are now since creation, how do you explain the mental evolution of man? I mean, what took so long for us to figure out things like fire, paper, electricity, etc.? Why didn't god just make us smarter? Evolution is the process of modification to adapt to ones environment, and you cannot deny that we get more advanced every day. Maybe we don't have horns or bottle openers growing out of our a$$es, but we make advancments every day.
The reason i asked the question was to see if you based what you believe in a book, written by many different people that admit alot of it is guesses, hypothesis, and theories. Have you ever saw a prehistoric man, dinosaur, and witnessed evolution taking place?
I think most people feel they are a good person. Hitler thought he was good, along with Stalin and the list goes on. The problem is most of us have different standards that other. Here do our standards come from? By what basis do we stand and say we are good? what is the comparitive?
One thing i see is that you have lost your faith in people and therefore attach it to God...or maybe even blaming God. I can tell you that if you please your faith in people you will be disappointed every time. Let me ask you have you studied the Bible before dismissing it or do you NOT believe it's real because someone told you to believe that? I hae one more question for you sam, do you believe there is evil in our world?
I think most people feel they are a good person. Hitler thought he was good, along with Stalin and the list goes on. The problem is most of us have different standards that other. Here do our standards come from? By what basis do we stand and say we are good? what is the comparitive?
One thing i see is that you have lost your faith in people and therefore attach it to God...or maybe even blaming God. I can tell you that if you please your faith in people you will be disappointed every time. Let me ask you have you studied the Bible before dismissing it or do you NOT believe it's real because someone told you to believe that? I hae one more question for you sam, do you believe there is evil in our world?
I went through the McDonalds drive-thru this evening. The register at the drive-thru window kept screwing up so she counted my change in her head. She gave me too much money so I pointed it out to her. She had to go find a calculator to figure up my change. Are we getting smarter? *grin*
G
GRAYGHOST
Guest
turbosam has some very good points there. And according to the Christian belief, what you are saying is correct, a murderer can be forgiven and go to Heaven, and you can be good your whole life, doubt Gods existance, and go to Hell. Well, actually not doubt his existance, but not accept Jesus. The way to God inHeaven is thru Jesus. That is why he was conceived by the virgin Mary in the first place.
I just thought though......if one chooses to murder, granted he has chosen wrong, he must also be the one to chose salvation thru Christ.
If you live life "good", but chose not to accept Christ, then it was ultimatley still your choice that was made.
I also just thought about a saying in the Bible, that we are all born into this world sinners. Which brings up one of my questions to turbomike.....say someone lives there whole life following the "rules" of the 10 commandments, and lives absolutley flawless...just never accepts Christ. Then what? Still goes to Hell in my "religion". Does not seem right. Now then, if you say that man cannot live his life with out sin, and God knows us, then why does he let us sin to begin with? It's like he's a puppet master with a sick sense of humor.
Anyone remember the movie Devils advocate with Al Pacino? "look, but don't touch, smell, but don't taste".........
By the way I found a website that has been pretty interesting, turbomike and others I hope find something within......it is John MacArthur's site www.biblebb.com i've been reading on it for a couple hours now........
I just thought though......if one chooses to murder, granted he has chosen wrong, he must also be the one to chose salvation thru Christ.
If you live life "good", but chose not to accept Christ, then it was ultimatley still your choice that was made.
I also just thought about a saying in the Bible, that we are all born into this world sinners. Which brings up one of my questions to turbomike.....say someone lives there whole life following the "rules" of the 10 commandments, and lives absolutley flawless...just never accepts Christ. Then what? Still goes to Hell in my "religion". Does not seem right. Now then, if you say that man cannot live his life with out sin, and God knows us, then why does he let us sin to begin with? It's like he's a puppet master with a sick sense of humor.
Anyone remember the movie Devils advocate with Al Pacino? "look, but don't touch, smell, but don't taste".........
By the way I found a website that has been pretty interesting, turbomike and others I hope find something within......it is John MacArthur's site www.biblebb.com i've been reading on it for a couple hours now........
G
GRAYGHOST
Guest
And now I have found some good reference to my statement that sparked all this off to begin with..........
The following "Question" was asked of John MacArthur Jr., the pastor of Grace Community Church, Sun Valley, California. Copyright 2001 by John MacArthur Jr., All Rights Reserved.
Question
Can one who commits suicide be saved?
Answer
Suicide is a grave sin equivalent to murder (Exodus 20:13; 21:23), but it can be forgiven like any other sin. And Scripture says clearly that those redeemed by God have been forgiven for all their sins--past, present, and future (Colossians 2:13-14). Paul says in Romans 8:38-39 that nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus.
So if a true Christian would commit suicide in a time of extreme weakness, he or she would be received into heaven (Jude 24). But we question the faith of those who take their lives or even consider it seriously--it may well be that they have never been truly saved.
I say that because God's children are defined repeatedly in Scripture as those who have hope (Acts 24:15; Romans 5:2-5, 8:24; 2 Corinthians 1:10, etc.) and purpose in life (Luke 9:23-25; Romans 8:28; Colossians 1:29). And those who think of committing suicide do so because they have neither hope nor purpose in their lives. Furthermore, one who repeatedly considers suicide is practicing sin in his heart (Proverbs 23:7), and 1 John 3:9 says that "no one who is born of God practices sin." And finally, suicide is often the ultimate evidence of a heart that rejects the lordship of Jesus Christ, because it is an act where the sinner is taking his life into his own hands completely rather than submitting to God's will for it. Surely many of those who have taken their lives will hear those horrifying words from the Lord Jesus at the judgment--"I never knew you; Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness" (Matthew 7:23).
So though it may be possible for a true believer to commit suicide, we believe that is an unusual occurrence. Someone considering suicide should be challenged above all to examine himself to see whether he is in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5).
Added to Bible Bulletin Board's "MacArthur’s Questions and Answers" by:
Tony Capoccia
Bible Bulletin Board
Box 119
Columbus, New Jersey, USA, 08022
Websites: www.biblebb.com and www.gospelgems.com
Email: tony@biblebb.com
Online since 1986
So then, for the record I retract my statement that suicide = a one way ticket to Hell. There obviously can be exceptions.
Might I add I am glad to know that there can be exceptions.
The following "Question" was asked of John MacArthur Jr., the pastor of Grace Community Church, Sun Valley, California. Copyright 2001 by John MacArthur Jr., All Rights Reserved.
Question
Can one who commits suicide be saved?
Answer
Suicide is a grave sin equivalent to murder (Exodus 20:13; 21:23), but it can be forgiven like any other sin. And Scripture says clearly that those redeemed by God have been forgiven for all their sins--past, present, and future (Colossians 2:13-14). Paul says in Romans 8:38-39 that nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus.
So if a true Christian would commit suicide in a time of extreme weakness, he or she would be received into heaven (Jude 24). But we question the faith of those who take their lives or even consider it seriously--it may well be that they have never been truly saved.
I say that because God's children are defined repeatedly in Scripture as those who have hope (Acts 24:15; Romans 5:2-5, 8:24; 2 Corinthians 1:10, etc.) and purpose in life (Luke 9:23-25; Romans 8:28; Colossians 1:29). And those who think of committing suicide do so because they have neither hope nor purpose in their lives. Furthermore, one who repeatedly considers suicide is practicing sin in his heart (Proverbs 23:7), and 1 John 3:9 says that "no one who is born of God practices sin." And finally, suicide is often the ultimate evidence of a heart that rejects the lordship of Jesus Christ, because it is an act where the sinner is taking his life into his own hands completely rather than submitting to God's will for it. Surely many of those who have taken their lives will hear those horrifying words from the Lord Jesus at the judgment--"I never knew you; Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness" (Matthew 7:23).
So though it may be possible for a true believer to commit suicide, we believe that is an unusual occurrence. Someone considering suicide should be challenged above all to examine himself to see whether he is in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5).
Added to Bible Bulletin Board's "MacArthur’s Questions and Answers" by:
Tony Capoccia
Bible Bulletin Board
Box 119
Columbus, New Jersey, USA, 08022
Websites: www.biblebb.com and www.gospelgems.com
Email: tony@biblebb.com
Online since 1986
So then, for the record I retract my statement that suicide = a one way ticket to Hell. There obviously can be exceptions.
Might I add I am glad to know that there can be exceptions.
Similar threads
