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what's next for my mostly stock GN

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car has translator. neatly hidden.

went to the track. 13.5 at 103mph. (maxed out on 3rd)
b118.

could not get the launch right. kept rolling thru the beams.

I have vacuum brakes with new pads all around. will s10 kit from g body help?

Sent from my 500T using Tapatalk
 
13.5 at 103? What boost? Should be able to run 103 mph on pump gas alone. More boost, like 24 and alky should run deep 12's with a good launch. You'll get a better et trying to launch off the parking brake since you have vacuum brakes unfortunately.
 
running around 22lbs of boost.
no breakup or anything. just the launch that was suffering.

Can I change brake setup to something else? Hydroboost?
 
I hear a lot of people locking up their rear wheels with those S10 kits. I still have mine sitting on the shelf from 5 years ago. I'm afraid of locking up the rears. If you're trying to increase your track times from improving your launch, you're going to need a really good tire. And whoever told you about not changing your factory valve springs doesn't know springs very well. Don't do that. Change those springs. If they're from 1987 (probably from 86) I promise you you're leaving a lot of time on the table at the track. Since you only have a few miles on that car, make sure you keep zddp in that oil, with a good filter and your stock cam should be ok. But before you go turning up the wick, I'm telling you you better put brace kits 6756, 6744, 6564, and especially 1586, the rear seat brace kit. These are kirbans part numbers. They'll keep your body from twisting up and cracking in certain places.
After all of that along with your reliability mods (brakes, valve springs, timing chain, vac lines, intercooler cleanse, etc etc) put a big rear sway in and get tires. You really won't need much else. A bone stocker with a translator, power plate and alky kit is really all that's needed for a really fun car that can beat a lot of other cars while not becoming a money pit. As long as you have tires of course. As far as the trans is concerned Lonnie says to run a deeper pan with the 700 filter and trick shift fluid in the trans. That should help her out for a stocker.

Also, can anyone shine more light on the really weird condition of running super rich but still having the blm's at 118? How can both exist simultaneously? 118 means it's pulled the fuel and made the correction. So then how is it still rich? From all these pages on this board, I've always read that it has to be one or the other. A higher blm means it's adding fuel. That would make the car run a little rich. If the number went down, it should be running better, or lean. How do you get both?
 
Also, can anyone shine more light on the really weird condition of running super rich but still having the blm's at 118? How can both exist simultaneously? 118 means it's pulled the fuel and made the correction. So then how is it still rich? From all these pages on this board, I've always read that it has to be one or the other. A higher blm means it's adding fuel. That would make the car run a little rich. If the number went down, it should be running better, or lean. How do you get both?

On a stock ECM/chip if the BLM is less then 128 it isn't used when in PE/WOT mode. So the fuel trim won't lean out WOT.

If the BLM is equal to or greater then 128 then it is used when in WOT/PE mode.

RemoveBeforeFlight
 
On a stock ECM/chip if the BLM is less then 128 it isn't used when in PE/WOT mode. So the fuel trim won't lean out WOT.

If the BLM is equal to or greater then 128 then it is used when in WOT/PE mode.

RemoveBeforeFlight

There are 16 BLM cells in the stock ECM (numbered 0 - 15) cell 15 is the only cell used during PE/WOT. And if for some reason it learns a value below 128 that value will be used when the cell is active. Unless the chip burner has commanded the chip to lock onto 128 during PE/WOT (which most do).
As for Turbo6 seeing a 118 BLM and at times still running rich, I refer him to my comments above about there being 16 cells. And they can all learn different values. Sometimes radically different.
 
Woops. Wasn't paying attention. Sorry. I was confusing this condition with another condition, which was what do you do with the fueling with the wide band shows LEAN, AND the blm's are low. This guy has a different problem. Sorry, it was early when I wrote that lol.

As for the problem HERE, if you're rich, and you have low blm's, yank a few psi off of your fuel pressure and slowly roll into boost in third and watch for knock. If you start to get real, or "lean" knock, then add some fuel at WOT. But each car is different in that aspect. But as far as your blm's, reduce your fuel pressure say 3 psi then drive around a bit and see what happens.
 
There are 16 BLM cells in the stock ECM (numbered 0 - 15) cell 15 is the only cell used during PE/WOT. And if for some reason it learns a value below 128 that value will be used when the cell is active. Unless the chip burner has commanded the chip to lock onto 128 during PE/WOT (which most do).
As for Turbo6 seeing a 118 BLM and at times still running rich, I refer him to my comments above about there being 16 cells. And they can all learn different values. Sometimes radically different.

Dave, it appears that you are correct, even in WOT/PE mode the BLM is used whether it is adding or removing fuel. This is the first mask ($31T) that I've seen this, and I've looked at a lot of GM firmware. I just spent some time going through the code to verify this, I didn't find anything that will cause the ECM to ignore a BLM less then 128 while in WOT/PE mode.

Cell 15 is used whenever the airflow is above 30 gms/sec and the RPM is above 1500. Easy enough to be there while BLM learn is active.

This is dangerous as it could lean out the engine while in boost. All it takes is a bad O2 sensor to drive the BLM down and the engine is toast. Must say that I am quite surprised to find that the $31T mask will use a BLM value that is less then 128.

Makes me glad that I'm not running the stock ECM and firmware.

RemoveBeforeFlight
 
Dave, it appears that you are correct, even in WOT/PE mode the BLM is used whether it is adding or removing fuel. This is the first mask ($31T) that I've seen this, and I've looked at a lot of GM firmware. I just spent some time going through the code to verify this, I didn't find anything that will cause the ECM to ignore a BLM less then 128 while in WOT/PE mode.

Cell 15 is used whenever the airflow is above 30 gms/sec and the RPM is above 1500. Easy enough to be there while BLM learn is active.

This is dangerous as it could lean out the engine while in boost. All it takes is a bad O2 sensor to drive the BLM down and the engine is toast. Must say that I am quite surprised to find that the $31T mask will use a BLM value that is less then 128.

Makes me glad that I'm not running the stock ECM and firmware.

RemoveBeforeFlight

The o2 sensor isn't used at wot. Bob's chips read air at wot with a translator but I think he locks the blm @ 128 @ wot. I know Eric does for sure, for consistency and avoiding what you describe. That's the only way his wot adjustments in the chip could work properly.
 
Dave, it appears that you are correct, even in WOT/PE mode the BLM is used whether it is adding or removing fuel. This is the first mask ($31T) that I've seen this, and I've looked at a lot of GM firmware. I just spent some time going through the code to verify this, I didn't find anything that will cause the ECM to ignore a BLM less then 128 while in WOT/PE mode.

Cell 15 is used whenever the airflow is above 30 gms/sec and the RPM is above 1500. Easy enough to be there while BLM learn is active.

This is dangerous as it could lean out the engine while in boost. All it takes is a bad O2 sensor to drive the BLM down and the engine is toast. Must say that I am quite surprised to find that the $31T mask will use a BLM value that is less then 128.

Makes me glad that I'm not running the stock ECM and firmware.

RemoveBeforeFlight
As I stated virtually all aftermarket chips for the stock ecm now lock the blm at 128 during PE/WOT. So most of the danger is removed.

Sent from my QMV7A tablet via Tapatalk.
 
The o2 sensor isn't used at wot.

I realize that. The thing is that cell 15 can learn in, as the set points defining that cell are rather low. Lets say that the O2 sensor is silicone poisoned (BTDT), and drives the BLM down to the minimum of 105 (stock chip ! ).

Now the engine enters boost with the ECM still using BLM cell 15. Since the engine is in boost no learning takes place (O2 ignored), but the ECM is pulling 18% of the fuel that would otherwise be delivered with a BLM of 128 (neutral). That is the issue.

RemoveBeforeFlight
 
As I stated virtually all aftermarket chips for the stock ecm now lock the blm at 128 during PE/WOT. So most of the danger is removed.

That is true, still better to use it if above 128. But I think we both know that. :cool:

RemoveBeforeFlight
 
? I do not. Please explain.

It is better to be rich then to be lean. Clamping the BLM at 128 while in WOT/PE mode is better then using a lower then 128 BLM value. But if the BLM is 158, it is much better to use that value then 128.

I realize that the chip guys can only do so much, as they are somewhat constrained by the ROM based firmware.

RemoveBeforeFlight
 
It is better to be rich then to be lean. Clamping the BLM at 128 while in WOT/PE mode is better then using a lower then 128 BLM value. But if the BLM is 158, it is much better to use that value then 128.

I realize that the chip guys can only do so much, as they are somewhat constrained by the ROM based firmware.

RemoveBeforeFlight

Not quite seeing the logic but I'm not a ecm wizard. Sounds like a moot point with it locked at 128. If it was allowed to run above 128, it may mask a larger problem like a bad fuel pump or a clogged filter. Without the blm lock, the ecu would just compensate for the problem and you wouldn't know until it was too late.
 
Not quite seeing the logic but I'm not a ecm wizard. Sounds like a moot point with it locked at 128. If it was allowed to run above 128, it may mask a larger problem like a bad fuel pump or a clogged filter. Without the blm lock, the ecu would just compensate for the problem and you wouldn't know until it was too late.

If you're not keeping an eye on things it won't matter either way. For those that do keep an eye on things that safety factor can save an engine. Do you believe in WB tracking? Same thing...

RemoveBeforeFlight
 
If you're not keeping an eye on things it won't matter either way. For those that do keep an eye on things that safety factor can save an engine. Do you believe in WB tracking? Same thing...

RemoveBeforeFlight

I don't believe in wideband tracking. I think a safer tune is a static one at wot which is why I prefer the blm lock and don't use wideband tracking. I leave performance on the table yes, but you stated earlier that with a bad sensor, things get all jacked up and thus I don't rely on either at wot. Just different strokes and such. If my wideband isn't where it needs to be, I abort but I don't want my ecm changing anything at wot.
 
If the BLM is high when not in WOT, there is a reason for it. Don't much care the reason, I'll look into that later. But when I go WOT, that BLM correction needs to be used. A little extra fuel won't hurt anything, but not enough fuel most certainly hurt something.

RemoveBeforeFlight
 
I hear a lot of people locking up their rear wheels with those S10 kits. I still have mine sitting on the shelf from 5 years ago. I'm afraid of locking up the rears. If you're trying to increase your track times from improving your launch, you're going to need a really good tire. And whoever told you about not changing your factory valve springs doesn't know springs very well. Don't do that. Change those springs. If they're from 1987 (probably from 86) I promise you you're leaving a lot of time on the table at the track. Since you only have a few miles on that car, make sure you keep zddp in that oil, with a good filter and your stock cam should be ok. But before you go turning up the wick, I'm telling you you better put brace kits 6756, 6744, 6564, and especially 1586, the rear seat brace kit. These are kirbans part numbers. They'll keep your body from twisting up and cracking in certain places.
After all of that along with your reliability mods (brakes, valve springs, timing chain, vac lines, intercooler cleanse, etc etc) put a big rear sway in and get tires. You really won't need much else. A bone stocker with a translator, power plate and alky kit is really all that's needed for a really fun car that can beat a lot of other cars while not becoming a money pit. As long as you have tires of course. As far as the trans is concerned Lonnie says to run a deeper pan with the 700 filter and trick shift fluid in the trans. That should help her out for a stocker.

Also, can anyone shine more light on the really weird condition of running super rich but still having the blm's at 118? How can both exist simultaneously? 118 means it's pulled the fuel and made the correction. So then how is it still rich? From all these pages on this board, I've always read that it has to be one or the other. A higher blm means it's adding fuel. That would make the car run a little rich. If the number went down, it should be running better, or lean. How do you get both?

Thanks for the good reply.

The brace kits were installed before going to the track and I'm running ET Street Radials.
There is a bunch of different opinions on valve springs. - Which one should I run?

BLM at 118 are at idle. and cruising. WOT it locks at 128 as per TTweak chip.
Runs good. just stating what is showing up on my scanmaster.
 
What springs? A good TRW or Crow beehive spring will be fine. But for a stock cam, regardless of what everyone else says, use just enough pressure to get the job done, and no more. Otherwise you run the risk of flattening your old glass-like cam. If you're anal like I am, buy three sets and send them to Richard Clark and have him measure them all. Match out a set for your engine and send the rest back :)
 
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