whats wrong with 50lb injectors?
- Thread starter chiken
- Start date
Steve Wood
Active Member
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2001
Strange, this is the second post on this subject lately....Red musta sold out of them and got a real good price on something else.
I dunno.
I have a lot of cars out there with 50's and have not had a lick of trouble with them. Maybe I am just lucky.
One thing I do is replace the regulator in the alternator with a dummy and put a small adjustable regulator on the outside with a trim pot that I set to get about 14.4V at wot.
I don't know the name of the device but any alternator shop should have what I am talking about in a book somewhere.
Seems like the big, high ohm injectors like it when you give them a little more current. Makes it easier to pull them open I suspect.
Steve
I have a lot of cars out there with 50's and have not had a lick of trouble with them. Maybe I am just lucky.
One thing I do is replace the regulator in the alternator with a dummy and put a small adjustable regulator on the outside with a trim pot that I set to get about 14.4V at wot.
I don't know the name of the device but any alternator shop should have what I am talking about in a book somewhere.
Seems like the big, high ohm injectors like it when you give them a little more current. Makes it easier to pull them open I suspect.
Steve
BLACK6PACK
1 sec reaction King
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
I've heard that at around 75psi they completely lock up. So if you run around 45psi plus 35lbs of boost, watch out! 
Carolinaturbot6
Pride. Freedom. America
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
I'm sure Red has good reasons for not caring for the 50's. Most people base their opinions on their own experiences with various products, ect.
I know that the consensus here is that the 50's work very well in our cars. They are by far the most hyped injector I've seen on the board. It seems most really like them. That's great because the more choices we have the better.
I decided to go with the 55's not because of Red's opinion of them, but because I will be able to use one of his chips if I so desire. And, I can also still try & experiment with just about anyone else's chips as well. Red actually told me that the 009's would probably be enough for my future goals. He tried to save me some money by not having to modify the ecm, but I went ahead & went bigger, just to be on the safe side.
I do have a feeling though that in the near future I'll be contacting Steve Y. He surely has may some of you guys very happy.
Different strokes for different folks.
I know that the consensus here is that the 50's work very well in our cars. They are by far the most hyped injector I've seen on the board. It seems most really like them. That's great because the more choices we have the better.
I decided to go with the 55's not because of Red's opinion of them, but because I will be able to use one of his chips if I so desire. And, I can also still try & experiment with just about anyone else's chips as well.
Red actually told me that the 009's would probably be enough for my future goals. He tried to save me some money by not having to modify the ecm, but I went ahead & went bigger, just to be on the safe side. I do have a feeling though that in the near future I'll be contacting Steve Y. He surely has may some of you guys very happy.
Different strokes for different folks.
75 psi is like 45 psi with static FP of 45 and 30lb of boost pushing back on them in the intake helping to open them.....
Any high ohm injector may lock at 75 psi without boost.
The extra current will pull harder. I do not think there is a problem if you have a good alternator.
Steve
Any high ohm injector may lock at 75 psi without boost.
The extra current will pull harder. I do not think there is a problem if you have a good alternator.
Steve
Steve Wood
Active Member
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2001
What you are saying is that differential pressure does not add up to 75# and therefore there is no danger of lock up?
The funny thing is a lot of guys don't like the 009's (42.5lb injectors), but Red seems to like them. Many have the 50's and say they work great (I've seen a couple guys on this board that have run mid 10's with them), but Red doesn't like them
Steve Wood
Active Member
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2001
That is my understanding. The base pressure is 45....you run 35# of boost and the the base pressure is increased to 80# by the regulator but the boost is pushing back at 35# so the injector differential is still 45#---hence it is unlikely that injector lock up is a concern.
Mr URL
Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
There is nothing wrong with them. From what I heard is Red doesn't like them cause when he got the first set long time ago to try out they didn't flow match very well out of the box. That's why venders like PT&E only sell flow matched sets. If you have a flow matched set there is nothing to worry about. They have very good idle quality and drivability. Very linear and easy to program for and tune.
They don't have a lockup problem like what's been rumored unless you have like 75 psi STATIC fuel pressure or something. If that's the case you should have gotten larger injectors long time ago. They will knock on high 10's with a single fuel pump and mid 10's with a double pumper.
Red doesn't like Scanmasters or any scan tool less than DirectScan either or Translator setups. He won't put Scanmaster fast update code in his chips. As we all know it's Reds way or the highway. They other stuff works great but Red tends to be bull headed when it's not his product. He still can't convince me that volt boosters are the hot ticket. Did nothing for me but piss off my laptop. That lasted about 2 minutes. Most people are either a Red follower or not one. Red obviously knows his stuff but so do other people with their products.
They don't have a lockup problem like what's been rumored unless you have like 75 psi STATIC fuel pressure or something. If that's the case you should have gotten larger injectors long time ago. They will knock on high 10's with a single fuel pump and mid 10's with a double pumper.
Red doesn't like Scanmasters or any scan tool less than DirectScan either or Translator setups. He won't put Scanmaster fast update code in his chips. As we all know it's Reds way or the highway. They other stuff works great but Red tends to be bull headed when it's not his product. He still can't convince me that volt boosters are the hot ticket. Did nothing for me but piss off my laptop. That lasted about 2 minutes. Most people are either a Red follower or not one. Red obviously knows his stuff but so do other people with their products.
Red Canyonero
New Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
I have some detailed injector data on several popular injectors, of fine pulsewidth resolution as well as high pressure testing. A friend paid big bucks for this data, so I haven't given it out freely.
The 50lb injectors held up fine, up until 90 psi. I don't know where everyone comes up with these other numbers. At 90psi, they clammed up, flowed NO fuel, the fuel data drops like a rock to zero. Before that, they are fine. The data was done up to 100psi, and the rest of the injectors worked fine up to that point. The 50lb ones were the only ones that failed. This is the ONLY true data I have ever seen or heard of about the pressure problem. Every other post I have ever seen is "I'm told they lock up at high pressure" with no concrete data quoted or referenced.
They DO NOT respond to fuel pressure in the same fashion as most other injectors (typical pintle & disc style). In fact, if you overlay the pressure data of the 43.5/009 injectors versus the 50lb ones, the 43.5lb injectors will flow as much as or more than the 50s at high pressures (we are talking about HIGH pressures here, like 70-80psi). The delivery does increase, but it is not by the relationship that other injectors follow.
You guys are talking about the differential pressure, which I understand to be the real story. So for you to stop up the 50# injectors, you'd actually have to run 90psi of base fuel pressure, or be using a serious FMU type of setup that increases the fuel pressure at a rate greater than the manifold pressure increase.
Use a boost referenced regulator (as 95% of the people do), set at 45psi base, then run 30psi of boost, your fuel pressure will be 75psi. Your manifold pressure is 30psi. Differential pressure across the injector is still 45psi, which is the whole point of the boost referenced fuel pressure regulator. Unless there is something I am misunderstanding about the cause of the injector locking up, it should be the differential fuel pressure we are worried about.
Brian Green
89 TTA - with 50# injectors
The 50lb injectors held up fine, up until 90 psi. I don't know where everyone comes up with these other numbers. At 90psi, they clammed up, flowed NO fuel, the fuel data drops like a rock to zero. Before that, they are fine. The data was done up to 100psi, and the rest of the injectors worked fine up to that point. The 50lb ones were the only ones that failed. This is the ONLY true data I have ever seen or heard of about the pressure problem. Every other post I have ever seen is "I'm told they lock up at high pressure" with no concrete data quoted or referenced.
They DO NOT respond to fuel pressure in the same fashion as most other injectors (typical pintle & disc style). In fact, if you overlay the pressure data of the 43.5/009 injectors versus the 50lb ones, the 43.5lb injectors will flow as much as or more than the 50s at high pressures (we are talking about HIGH pressures here, like 70-80psi). The delivery does increase, but it is not by the relationship that other injectors follow.
You guys are talking about the differential pressure, which I understand to be the real story. So for you to stop up the 50# injectors, you'd actually have to run 90psi of base fuel pressure, or be using a serious FMU type of setup that increases the fuel pressure at a rate greater than the manifold pressure increase.
Use a boost referenced regulator (as 95% of the people do), set at 45psi base, then run 30psi of boost, your fuel pressure will be 75psi. Your manifold pressure is 30psi. Differential pressure across the injector is still 45psi, which is the whole point of the boost referenced fuel pressure regulator. Unless there is something I am misunderstanding about the cause of the injector locking up, it should be the differential fuel pressure we are worried about.
Brian Green
89 TTA - with 50# injectors
Mr URL
Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Carolinaturbot6
Pride. Freedom. America
- Joined
- May 24, 2001
Unless I misunderstood him, Steve Y.'s little alternator mod, explained above, sounds very similiar to what Red does with the volt booster. Just in a little different way. I have no idea if one is more effective than the other, but sounds as though the goal is the same with both.
What do you think Steve?
What do you think Steve?
I am not sure if Red applies his voltage to the injectors or not. I was under the impression he applied it to the fuel pumps.
I set my voltage at 15 in both my cars so as to get 14.4 or so at wot.
I have been waiting for something to fail for 2 years and so far it has been just 1 battery......which was failing anywho.
I keep the batterys fully charged as a rule, but I suspect it would be rather hard on a low battery to get hit with 15v.
From what I understand, if it is NOT a deep cycle battery with heavier plates, the plates may have a tendency to warp a little with heat generated from a hard charge......where the o'l dead cell thing comes into play.
Steve
I set my voltage at 15 in both my cars so as to get 14.4 or so at wot.
I have been waiting for something to fail for 2 years and so far it has been just 1 battery......which was failing anywho.
I keep the batterys fully charged as a rule, but I suspect it would be rather hard on a low battery to get hit with 15v.
From what I understand, if it is NOT a deep cycle battery with heavier plates, the plates may have a tendency to warp a little with heat generated from a hard charge......where the o'l dead cell thing comes into play.
Steve
CutterTurboT
BOOST
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2001
When I called Quad Air I spoke with John about what injectors to get and he about cussed my out when I asked about 50 lbs. He said that were crap and that the 42.5 were better. Well I got a buddy that runs 11.22@119 with the 50lbs that he has had on his car for about 8 years and they have worked fine. I've never spoke to Red, but John can get real smart mouth sometime. Great chips but like Chad said
