Where's the power?

[marred4life]

Lou's Auto!!!!
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!!!
That couldn't be more convenient. It is literally 10 minutes from my house!
I know where I'll be at in the very near future.

I'd at least like an expert to take a good look at it and let me know what needs the most attention.
I'll do the spring cleaning stuff and see if I can find any vacuum leaks and then head over to Lou's for a look.
What are the common area's for the vacuum leaks?

Tim

if possible try to replace all your vaccum hoses and then zip tie the ends, remember it has 20yr old rubber on it so try and replace most of them.
ps welcome to the buick community were here to help

 

[meanchicken]

Here's an update:

I finally was able to get to work on the GN this weekend.
I replaced the fuel filter, oil and filter and the air filter.I also inspected the spark plug wires and have ordered a new set. I'll replace those and the plugs next. Two of the wires had a lot of red rust inside them on the coil pack end, so I cleaned the coil pack towers and also cleaned out the plug wire ends as much as I could. The old air filter was a mess. It was some kind of old school foam high flow filter, but the thing was falling apart, there was a big hole in it and all sorts of particulate in the air box. I hate to think about what might have been sucked into the engine. I sprayed the screen on the MAF with some carb cleaner to clean it up. I'm on my second fresh tank of gas and added some injector cleaner.

I was able to look the mufflers over while wrastling with the fuel filter...they are due for replacement as both have small holes where they have rusted through. I should probably replace the cat too since it is original....but the car passed smog with no problems.

The car is definitely showing improvement in power but I still have work to do. I still get some brief pinging at gear shifts when under boost up around or above 15psi.

Also, at WOT, the engine usually bogs. It's still slow to build power if flooring it off the line, and at WOT is usually hesitates quite a bit and sometimes pops/poofs from under the hood.

The odd thing is the car is actually quite strong and part to 3/4 throttle....it'll even break the tires loose a little in first if I ease into it until the boost hits about 15psi and chirps second gear.
The power, hesitation, pop/poof under the hood and ping issues are all at WOT. So something still aint right in the fuel air spark department...

The only other problem is at cold idle after first starting up in the AM. It will idle fine at about 1000+rpm for about a minute, and then the RPM drops, the car will almost stall, then it'll zoom up the RPM again to about 1500+ and then slow back to near stall...over and over while in Park. Once I get into gear and while still cold, it shapes up after some initial hesitation at tip in on the peddle. Once warmed up, this issue goes away.

Tim

 

[acoen]

Here's an update:

I finally was able to get to work on the GN this weekend.
I replaced the fuel filter, oil and filter and the air filter.I also inspected the spark plug wires and have ordered a new set. I'll replace those and the plugs next. Two of the wires had a lot of red rust inside them on the coil pack end, so I cleaned the coil pack towers and also cleaned out the plug wire ends as much as I could. The old air filter was a mess. It was some kind of old school foam high flow filter, but the thing was falling apart, there was a big hole in it and all sorts of particulate in the air box. I hate to think about what might have been sucked into the engine. I sprayed the screen on the MAF with some carb cleaner to clean it up. I'm on my second fresh tank of gas and added some injector cleaner.

I was able to look the mufflers over while wrastling with the fuel filter...they are due for replacement as both have small holes where they have rusted through. I should probably replace the cat too since it is original....but the car passed smog with no problems.

The car is definitely showing improvement in power but I still have work to do. I still get some brief pinging at gear shifts when under boost up around or above 15psi.

Also, at WOT, the engine usually bogs. It's still slow to build power if flooring it off the line, and at WOT is usually hesitates quite a bit and sometimes pops/poofs from under the hood.

The odd thing is the car is actually quite strong and part to 3/4 throttle....it'll even break the tires loose a little in first if I ease into it until the boost hits about 15psi and chirps second gear.
The power, hesitation, pop/poof under the hood and ping issues are all at WOT. So something still aint right in the fuel air spark department...

The only other problem is at cold idle after first starting up in the AM. It will idle fine at about 1000+rpm for about a minute, and then the RPM drops, the car will almost stall, then it'll zoom up the RPM again to about 1500+ and then slow back to near stall...over and over while in Park. Once I get into gear and while still cold, it shapes up after some initial hesitation at tip in on the peddle. Once warmed up, this issue goes away.

Tim

Replace the coil, wires and plugs, clean the intercooler, clean and adjust the AIC and TPS, should help with the cold idle problem. Go to the GNTTYPE.org website and find the spring cleaning. You are over due for a scantool. If you have a laptop, there are several free scan programs you can download to help with the basics. If you are going to drive it every day you need to spend some money on a scanmaster......

HTH

 

[meanchicken]

Thanks.
Yes...all that is on the shopping list. I like to build a list and then order everything all at once.
On the list are a scan tool, plugs, plug wires, cold air sensor, MAF (possibly the LT1) ...I guess I could replace the coil pack too, but will wait until I see the diff the wires and plugs make. The guy I bought the car from gave me a spare coil pack, but it's used so I'm unsure of it's quality. Are these available over the counter still?

Also will be getting a Turbo Tweak chip and injectors to go with it...to be installed after I solve the current issues...or as a last resort before going to a real mechanic like Lou.

I will eventually be driving this every day, but for now have only had it out a few times for 50 mile or so drives (a total of about 250 miles), trying to burn the old fuel out of the system so I have 100% new clean fuel in there. The fresh gas I've added in has come twice once I hit half tank...it's due again for more fresh gas.

Since I've been warned and don't want to cause damage, I have only actually put my foot in it a couple times just to see what, if any, difference the stuff I have completed, makes. As soon as it's obvious I still have work to do, I pull out.

I'll try figuring out how to measure and adjust the TPS next time I'm under the hood.I really only need to know what pin is what on the TPS so I know where to probe while taking my readings.
I assume I'll find those answers by searching.

AIC?
What's that?

Tim

 

[BW Jones]

AIC is actually supposed to be IAC (Idle Air Control) located just below the throttle body. also, i'd be very careful about spraying anything in the MAF sensor.
bw jones

 

[NC87GN]

If it is all truly original drop the tank and replace the pump with an aftermarket Walbro. For 100 bucks you cannot go wrong. Put a hot wire kit while your there as well. When I first bought my GN 13 years ago the stock pump could not even keep up at 15psi. 02's would drop off quick.. Hope this helps..

Mike Banas
87GN

 

[meanchicken]

Yup...all original.
The pump included.

Now adding a Walbro pump and hotwire kit to my list.

 

[fitz3820]

You are on the right track so far and have found a good shop.

You NEED
1. New higher flow fuel pump
2. A scan tool, I love my scanmaster - you HAVE to monitor knock on these cars.
3. A real boost gauge - the stock blinky boost and tach are worthless!
4. Possibly new valve springs - they get weak over time.
5. Read, read and read more on the boards and gnttype.org

An aftermarket exhaust will do wonders as well, Jack Cotton sells a nice stainless set.

Welcome!!!

 

[mikestertwo]

Here's an update:

I also inspected the spark plug wires and have ordered a new set. I'll replace those and the plugs next. Two of the wires had a lot of red rust inside them on the coil pack end, so I cleaned the coil pack towers and also cleaned out the plug wire ends as much as I could. Tim

Your coil pack is most likely bad. Check the resistance between the towers. Should be in the 10-12K range. Replace it with a new GM unit.

 

[54Rich]

I'm new to this and by no means not an expert, but in a simular car. Stock and sitting for a long time. It has woke up so to speak, seem dull the first time out, getting better all the time. Here's what I did and what's next (Tight Budget)

XP Pump
Hot Wire Kit

At this point the ride was not exicting.

RJC Power Plate
Adjusted TPS and IAC, they were way off
Found vacuum leak, Heater control valve
Replaced Turbo - Had in/out play looked OK, but when I took it apart the intake fins were ground down It also doubled as a bug fogger
Cleaned Intercooler

100% improvement, minimum cash spent. I drove the car with and without the Power Plate, noticed a big difference on my car. I did install a Scanmaster, I have knock so:

Next up:

42 lb Injectors
TT Chip
ALKY

Which will be over the winter (Life in Wisconsin) and then I'm done

Rich

 

[meanchicken]

Thanks, guys.

Scanmaster and fuel pump/hot wire are next on the list...I think someone will throw a brick at my skull if I don't get a Scanmaster quickly...just smoothing things over with the wife first.

I'll probably go for the TT chip and injectors before I touch the turbo, intake track and valve train stuff, but at 98K miles...turbo is probably due.

Rich,
How much did the turbo cost?
Where is my heater control valve?

I need to find a good set of service manuals and wiring diagrams too.

Tim

 

[54Rich]

98K miles...turbo is probably due.

Rich,
How much did the turbo cost?
Where is my heater control valve?

I need to find a good set of service manuals and wiring diagrams too.

Tim[/QUOTE]

I thought I needed manuals when I got my car. So far everyhting I needed has been here They are around $175.00 or so, I guess you can get them on disk. There are a lot of helpful people on this board.

Check the turbo, take the input hose off and grab the turbine, should be no in/out and very little side to side. It may have been changed out. My car smoked so bad. Put a request in the wanted section, these guys/girls go through parts, always upgrading. Really easy to be cought up in it:redface:

The heater control is on the pass side, in-between the engine and the heater core, easy to find. I also replaced all the vacuum lines, they were all dry rotted. Look in the members section for my car and a complete list of everything that I've done to the car to date. Mine has 104K on it. Once you get past the easy stuff, then that's where this board shines:biggrin:

Rich

 

[meanchicken]

Replaced the spark plugs and wires tonight. The wires were complete gonners....corrosion inside the boots....nasty...looked like they were the originals.

The plugs also looked like they had never been changed....who knows. The three on the passenger side were very difficult to get to start turning....I really had to lean on them to break them free. The first one broke, scared the stew outa me...But I was able to get it to turn finally and was lucky I didn't screw up for real.

Here's a pic of the plug electrodes. All of them were pretty dark. and a couple had a red hue....whats up with that? The chunky stuff on them is grit that got on them while I weaseled them out of their pockets.

I replaced them with 43's gapped at 0.35.

Next I'll check the TPS, order the Scanmaster, coil pack, Walbro fuel pump, hotwire, TT chip. I'll be ordering injectors too but don't know if I should go for the 42lb or the 60lb.

I also will be upgrading the exhaust.

I eventually want this car to go 11's and be a reliable daily driver.
Opinions?

 

[usetaboost]

Get the 60lbs and an adj FPR and be done with it. Get the hooker cat back ehaust, heard good things about it. Get yourself a K&N 9 in cone too. That car should haul pretty good then. I don't have hardly anything done to mine and it will kick the rear sideways when I put it to the floor at 25mph. I know mines gotta be doing 0-60 in 5 seconds, find out if I ever get it back together and get some real tires on it:biggrin:

 

[meanchicken]

FPR?
What's that and how do I adjust it?

Big words confuse me...

 

[BlackMetal]

FPR?
What's that and how do I adjust it?

Big words confuse me...

Fuel pressure regulator, it's on the end of the fuel rail. Factory one is not adjustable. Replace with an adjustable one so you can control your fuel pressure and tune the car, keep it from running rich or lean.

FULL THROTTLE SPEED - Items Page

 

[meanchicken]

Thanks.
I'll add an FPR to the list of stuff I order with the walbro fuel pump and hotwire (i.e. Sender, sock, rubber hose to the tank at the back of the car...etc.)

Tim

 

[meanchicken]

Any comments on the color of the plugs other than...them things are used up?

Is that red color on some of the electrodes telling me anything?

 

[acoen]

Any comments on the color of the plugs other than...them things are used up?

Is that red color on some of the electrodes telling me anything?

Red color is considered normal, maybe a fuel additive added to where ever you are buying your fuel. The black plugs looks fuel fouled and the one on the end doesn't look like it was firing. The new coil, wires and plugs will make a huge difference.

 

[meanchicken]

Thanks.

I'm used to looking at tan to light brown as being normal in my normally aspirated carb'd big block.

Yup...the broken one on the end was pretty wet.

Tim