Where's the power?

[acoen]

Thanks.

I'm used to looking at tan to light brown as being normal in my normally aspirated carb'd big block.

Yup...the broken one on the end was pretty wet.

Tim

I bet she runs soooo much better.....!
Do you still have those original spark plug wires? I would like them if you are going to get rid of them.....Thanks

 

[meanchicken]

They are still in my shop garbage can.....they are not in very good shape.
I'm really not sure if they are original...just an assumption based on what they look like. I'll grap a picture tomorrow and post it. Where are you located?

Are you one of thosse, "Gotta have everything original." guys?


I've made some good part money offa that crowd with old busted stuff I've pulled off my Camaro for upgrades and placed on E-bay.
:biggrin:

 

[usetaboost]

I'm not trying to be a butthead, what would you want with 20+ year old wires? R U making a time capsule? I could see getting vac hoses that aren't heat beat to hell, but plug wires? Hell I don't even have my original plug wire looms anymore, when I took the 7mm wires off they litterally crumbled. Kinda made me mad but the block turned out to be junk so who cares now

 

[JDEstill]

The only other problem is at cold idle after first starting up in the AM. It will idle fine at about 1000+rpm for about a minute, and then the RPM drops, the car will almost stall, then it'll zoom up the RPM again to about 1500+ and then slow back to near stall...over and over while in Park. Once I get into gear and while still cold, it shapes up after some initial hesitation at tip in on the peddle. Once warmed up, this issue goes away.

When my car did this, it was the old crapped out stock injectors. I tried cleaning them and such several times, but nothing fixed the problem until I replaced them. New set of injectors and she purred like a kitten in the morning.

John

 

[acoen]

They are still in my shop garbage can.....they are not in very good shape.
I'm really not sure if they are original...just an assumption based on what they look like. I'll grap a picture tomorrow and post it. Where are you located?

Are you one of thosse, "Gotta have everything original." guys?


I've made some good part money offa that crowd with old busted stuff I've pulled off my Camaro for upgrades and placed on E-bay.
:biggrin:

Yep, I like originality, that is why I have my '86 GN, nostalgia for me, plus I love the legend and looks of the stock GN. My stock GN is the best of what was offer in the 80's, hell the motor, electronics and fuel injection were almost 10 years ahead of their time. If I wanted to modify something I would put a 4" fart pipe on my Toyota!:biggrin: As for the wires, if they are salvagable I can use them!

Thanks again and look forward to the photos....

 

[Junior Samples]

plugs look like someone was adding octane snake oil to gas, explains the redish color.

just got my new injectors, chip from TT and new turbo and its pullen hard now and idles smooth

when i bought mine the FIRST thing i bought was a scanmaster per recomendations from this board, put vacuum gauge on it and proceeded from there

 

[TurboMonte 2]

I have an "extra" (Volume II) Service Manual for 86 Buick (87=same)--including GN of course that I'm willing to part with reasonably. Bound pages (5-6" thick)--but without the binder.

Also have both an 86 & an 87 GM Body Service Manual--all GM bodies covered. This is the sought-after one for our GN's, etc.

If any interest, perhaps I'll just list them in "Parts for Sale" section...

 

[meanchicken]

I have an "extra" (Volume II) Service Manual for 86 Buick (87=same)--including GN of course that I'm willing to part with reasonably. Bound pages (5-6" thick)--but without the binder.

Also have both an 86 & an 87 GM Body Service Manual--all GM bodies covered. This is the sought-after one for our GN's, etc.

If any interest, perhaps I'll just list them in "Parts for Sale" section...

Thanks.
I'll probably check for a CD/ROM version before I go paper. Appreciate the offer tho!

Yep, I like originality, that is why I have my '86 GN, nostalgia for me, plus I love the legend and looks of the stock GN. My stock GN is the best of what was offer in the 80's, hell the motor, electronics and fuel injection were almost 10 years ahead of their time. If I wanted to modify something I would put a 4" fart pipe on my Toyota!:biggrin: As for the wires, if they are salvagable I can use them!

Thanks again and look forward to the photos....

Hey....I just e-mailed you the pix. These definitely appear to be the original set. Grey, GM markings and numbered. I included a pic of one of the rusted coil end terminals.
Let me know.

plugs look like someone was adding octane snake oil to gas, explains the redish color.

just got my new injectors, chip from TT and new turbo and its pullen hard now and idles smooth

when i bought mine the FIRST thing i bought was a scanmaster per recomendations from this board, put vacuum gauge on it and proceeded from there

Guilty.:redface:
At my first fill up, I added 104+.
At my second fill up I added injector cleaner.
Just filled up again...but now additive this time.

After I replace the coil pack this week (it's in the mail), The Scanmaster, TT chip/60lb injectors, Walbro Fuel Pump and AFR are getting purchased.

The car definitely has more pop right now with the stuff I've done so far, but still has the same symptoms I described, although to a far lesser degree.

I appreciate all the guidance you guys are giving me!!!

 

[TURBOELKY]

man

I remember when I was new to the buick world, a few years ago I was totally lost. I learned a long hard lesson by not listening to these guys on here, the first thing of all you need is that scanmaster. A boost gage for sure! dont look at that factory pretty light bar on the dash, its totally off. Fuel is the next important, which is really the first since the scanmaster and boost gage are just tools. I ran my car lean for about 3 months till I knew I had a fuel starvation problem. If you can hear knock, prepare for the worst if you keep it up. You'll be see'n uncle Lou sooner than later! which might be a good thing.

I have a buddy near my home w/ 2 turbo cars, and he thinks they are like the other 10 cars he owns, you get in em and smash the gas he pisses me off, i've been telling him to get a scanmaster for a year now!! and a new fuel pump and injectors with a matching chip!. what does he do.... paints the car drop the big block mentality, get with the program, and watch how withing the next few months if you follow these recipies, your big block car will be on the back burner while your able to smoke it and still get 20 mpg....
oh yeah, and once your all done with getting the engine right, you'll be on your way to the tranny shop

good luck bud, your now on the "darkside".....

 

[TURBOELKY]

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/231269-new-guy-couple-questions.html

looks like you both are in the same position. Compare what he does to what your doing and you'll see what works, I like his set up, just a little too much at the same time...

 

[meanchicken]

Yup, I've been watching that string and a few others.

I PROMISE.....to keep my right foot calm until I get the scanmaster, fuel pump etc. taken care of. Those will happen over the next couple weeks...just waiting for funds to come in before I make the purchase.

I'm definitely liking this car. I wouldn't say my Camaro will take a back seat (I'vee been driving first zgen Camaro's since I was 16), but it's definiteluy getting less attention these days while I get the GN in all tuned up and running right.

One thing about a 550 HP big block, is that when I go loud on it.....the ground shakes and it scares the crap outa people. It flat out sounds pissed off and angry.

I get challenged by these STi's and Evo's with their fart can exhausts all the time. They're friggin' obnoxious! When they show up in my rear view mirror before 3rd gear, while my tires are still spinning and back end is still kicked out to the right, I can see the whites of zippies eye's as he utters his dieing expletives.

Mustangs of various flavors like to try me out too. My biggest kills are a '07Saleen E, and a juiced up black convertable 05 or 06 Cobra with "VENIM..." on his license plates. Mr. Venim definitely had done some work on his horsey because he actually hung with me longer than the Saleen E did. The guy in the Saleen said he was making 580HP, so I flat out out torqued him and walked away from him in 3rd and 4th. I think my Camaro is a few hundred lbs lighter than these new stangs also.

I'm looking forward to the day when this GN will register some kill stories of it's own, but I am NOT doing any racing of any kind with it until it's running right.

In the GN, I've been avoiding WOT like the plague and have only tested each phase of work at about 3/4 throttle and I always ease into it. As soon as I feel or hear something wrong, I get back out of it.

Tim

 

[meanchicken]

Swapped in a new coil pack today. I mesured the resistance on the old coil pack and between the 3 and 6 terminals, I had 7.8M ohm....way off from the 10-12K ohm they should be reading. Resistance between the other terminals was normal but the 2 and 5 terminals were hard to get a good read on due to the terminals being all crudded up. Anyone want to buy an original, but bad, coil pack (has a May 1987 date stamped on it and the Turbo 6 sticker is still there)? Figure If my nasty original old spark plug wires were worth $10, then maybe this is too...:biggrin:

The new coil pack seems to have cured the pop from under the hood at WOT. Also seems to have taken care of the cold idle problem and reduced some of the shift pinging at WOT. The car still has more power at about 3/4 throttle, than at WOT, so fuel supply is next.

My Walbro pump, adj Fuel Reg, ScanMaster, TT chip and 60# injectors are in the mail.

Also threw some new tires on, serviced the trans (complete flush) and had it aligned so it drives a little nicer now. Still need new shocks and rear breaks and discovered my tranny mount is busted.

 

[TURBOELKY]

cool man. You did the right thing with the 60# injectors and the other stuff. You'll be happy! you'd better of listened, or we'll pull your tooth out with a pair of pliers

 

[meanchicken]

cool man. You did the right thing with the 60# injectors and the other stuff. You'll be happy! you'd better of listened, or we'll pull your tooth out with a pair of pliers

Yikes...are you related to the Navy Dentist who pulled my wisdom teeth?
That guy jacked me up! Took him 4 hours to get my right side teeth out. It took a month to heal and I refused to go back in to have the lefties done.

So....I've dropped fuel tanks in other cars before and kinda know what to expect when swapping my fuel pump, but is injector swapping pretty straight forward?
All I've ever messed with are carbs on V8's and even working on those still scares me a little.
How about swapping the fuel regulator for the adjustable?

 

[need boost]

Sounds like you are coming along good with the buick. I know what you mean about the sound though. I have a 68 400 firebird and it sounds mean, backs it up pretty good to but now my buick will skin it alive and get over 20mpg where the bird gets about 10 lol. The buicks are the top of the food chain on the old theory, walk softly but carry a BIG stick lol. Just hang in there and get her right. You will be very happy when you do for sure!!!! Mustangs, camaros, etc are not even much of a challenge anymore at all to me unless they have some serious money in them and I get better gas mileage, comfy ride, and can haul 4 people with luggage if I have to hahahaha. I still take the bird out everynow and then for the sound and instant torque that she has but the buick is just so much more of a wolf in sheeps cloathing. :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[TurboMonte 2]

Congrats--good progress with a good plan & remember; "good things come with time" & "patience is a virtue". FPR replct = a slam-dunk, & you need remove it anyhow to pull fuel rail & injectors. Be sure you use new O-ring seals on FPR also. Inj'rs will likely be stuck (O-rings in manifold) & you may help pop them loose with an open-end wrench spanned across inj & pry up. The new inj'rs will/should have new O-rings w/ them... Good Luck!

 

[Lee_Burough]

Cars that set a lot usually don't perform up to par. The more you drive it, the better it will run. I'd put some BG's 44K or Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner in there to clean the injectors and combustion chambers....It will definitely help. I'd wait on the injectors for a while, at least until you get it running its best....You won't need new/larger injectors until after you have a new turbo and an Alchy kit (do a search).

 

[meanchicken]

Cars that set a lot usually don't perform up to par. The more you drive it, the better it will run. I'd put some BG's 44K or Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner in there to clean the injectors and combustion chambers....It will definitely help. I'd wait on the injectors for a while, at least until you get it running its best....You won't need new/larger injectors until after you have a new turbo and an Alchy kit (do a search).

It does run better the more I drive it, that is true. But replaceing one thing at a time is teaching me a lot about what makes this little animal happy. I ran some 104+ and Injector cleaner through in the first three fill ups...helped a little. I figure I can't lose replacing the injectors. The ones in there are the original 28lb-ers and no doubt due for replacement anyway. The 60lb-ers I can adjust down to and as I add more here and there, when the car needs it, i can adjust the regulator up. Alchy will be in the future, no doubt...and the turbo too.

Congrats--good progress with a good plan & remember; "good things come with time" & "patience is a virtue". FPR replct = a slam-dunk, & you need remove it anyhow to pull fuel rail & injectors. Be sure you use new O-ring seals on FPR also. Inj'rs will likely be stuck (O-rings in manifold) & you may help pop them loose with an open-end wrench spanned across inj & pry up. The new inj'rs will/should have new O-rings w/ them... Good Luck!

Thanks. Do the FPR's come with O-rings? If not....where do I get some?

Sounds like you are coming along good with the buick. I know what you mean about the sound though. I have a 68 400 firebird and it sounds mean, backs it up pretty good to but now my buick will skin it alive and get over 20mpg where the bird gets about 10 lol. The buicks are the top of the food chain on the old theory, walk softly but carry a BIG stick lol. Just hang in there and get her right. You will be very happy when you do for sure!!!! Mustangs, camaros, etc are not even much of a challenge anymore at all to me unless they have some serious money in them and I get better gas mileage, comfy ride, and can haul 4 people with luggage if I have to hahahaha. I still take the bird out everynow and then for the sound and instant torque that she has but the buick is just so much more of a wolf in sheeps cloathing. :biggrin: :biggrin:

I hear you on the mileage factor. My ZZ502 swallows 8mpg if I behave (rare) and dips under 5mpg when I misbehave (norm) but geeze that car is fun to drive. Aside from the ZZ putting out about 550HP and 575 TQ, a TKO-600 5-speed, and a 3:73 Moser 12-bolt with various upgrades, I've done some suspension work to it too. GW Tubular control arms (delalum bushings), QA1 coil overs (front), QA1's rear, big ol' sway bar, solid body mounts, power disks all around, GNX quick ratio power steering box (less than 2 turns lock to lock) lowered a few inches. I still have plans to minitub and add a DSE Q-link under the rear, but those are on hold while I tune up the GN. I've honestly never taken the Camaro to the track (I need to), but I know based on comparison to similar combos of guys I know on Camaro msg boards, and the kills I've registered against known 12 second (and faster) cars while committing felonious acts on the streets of South Orange County....I'm easily in the 11's....with 91 octane (no knockata ping)...on P255/60/16 BFG G-Force Sport TA street tires... If I dump the clutch at any RPM, the tires go up in smoke, so I ease in off the line giving the road kill a head start, then I pound the peddle to the floor. The tires obviously still break loose, and stay loose all the way into the top of 2nd and then bottom of 3rd, but I'm typically passing whoever tried to pick the fight before I get through 2nd. I lift as soon as I see headlights in my rear view. I know there are faster cars out there, and eventually I'll find one, but for now...I'm undefeated. I did have this nutty guy with a blown big block El Camino chase me down once. I knew I was out gunned and politely declined his offer to race, that's when he admitted to having over 1300HP to boot me with. I bowed my head to his supioriority and we each went our seperate ways, but not before each of us committed exibition of speed for each other. I found out later after describing thast mean purple Elky to a friend, that the guy apparently owns a local hot rod shop down by I5 and Lake Forest.
The ZZ502 in my 68 Camaro is actually a very mild big block. Runs great on 91 octane and can be easily bumped up over 600 HP with a new cam and a little head work. If I go bottom end and bump the compression up from the current 9.5:1....even more fun to be had....If I throw on a power adder....then it gets real scary.

Don't get me wrong....I've been watching these GN's kill off nasty big blocks at the track for several years, and I've wanted one for my own since 1987. Now I gots one. I have no doubt in these huffin' lil' 6's capability to "skin the sheep" and I'm looking forward to doing some skinnin' of my own.:biggrin:

 

[jcj1407]

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/231269-new-guy-couple-questions.html

looks like you both are in the same position. Compare what he does to what your doing and you'll see what works, I like his set up, just a little too much at the same time...

Don't pay attention to that guy, he's an impatient idiot.:wink: No really though I read for a long time and built a list just like you are doing, but the first thing I did was all the guages and a powerlogger. I did get the car to the track Friday and tuned into the 12.90's but we ran out of time before we could make some real adjustments.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Email sent. Read up.

Remember, the power additions are the LAST things you should add. First is always security, to keep it in your posession. (alarm, insurance, column locks etc. etc.) Then you address reliability, (scanmaster/guages, body bracing, inlet bell oil tube and throttle body preheat blockoff, coil pack etc. etc.)
Then air in, (solid MAF pipe, air filter etc. etc.) Air out, (dutt neck, good exhaust etc. etc.) Fuel, (pump/hotwire, afpr etc. etc.) Then suspension, (new shocks/springs, sway bars, etc. etc.) You can change up the air in, air out and suspension order however you like, but be sure to do the security first, the reliability second, and the power adding stuff LAST. Ive seen many people not do this, and end up with either a stolen car, or a blown engine. Don't do it.

When your car is secure, solid, and running how it's supposed to be, THEN, lastly, start lookin at stuff like turbo, injectors, stall converter, intercooler, alky injection etc. etc. Until then, don't messs around, or you're going to ruin something. These cars ram air pretty dam fast and hard. If somethings out of tune, you're going to know it reeal fast. Good luck, and welcome to the world of Buick. The leaders in speed and luxury.