WHICH NOZZLE - M10 or M15 stock setup

[PaulRV6]

Hey guys, what size should I use for my DYI setup? Shurflo pump, following stevemon's directions. Stock turbo and bluetops.

paul

 

[salvageV6]

M10 first stage and M15 for the second stage.

As much boost as possible.

M10 should work fine for you with a mostly stock combo.

 

[Razor]

Ditto on the M10, you can always bump the pressure up and increase its flow.

Man this board is quik

 

[salvageV6]

Played with the Shurflow today with an M10 nozzle.

Couldn't find a way to drive the nozzle properly without a ton of pulsation.

Two nozzles was a bit better but still nowhere near as good as with an SMC pump.

Tried all kinds of voltages too and bypassed the bypass switch also.

Maybe I'll just stick a garden hose in the intake.

 

[salvageV6]

I fed it through some power resistors at 7 volts and it still pulsated badly with lower pressure to boot.

Two or three nozzles will probably be optimum.

Not sure if the pulsations will cause KR over the smooth SMC pump or not.

Might have to try other nozzles with this pump. Might also try the SMC controller since it only uses about 4 amps. draw when running, errrr chugging.

Back to the lab.

 

[Razor]

Umm ahh..

Now you know why I do what I do.

No pulsations here..simple you crank the pressure on the shureflow and regulate voltage to it. It only pulses when it hits the pressure switch cuasing it to cycle on/off. Diaphram style pump has a little pulsation inherent in its design..but that cycling on/off I can eliminate. You would be amazed how much alcohol that pump will flow at 3 volts DC...

If there was someone making what I did 6 months ago, I would have never spent the time.

BTW, dropping voltage using resistors is not the answer..it cuases the pump to be lazy and not regulate..let alone the heat generated.

If I can help, hollar

Julio

 

[salvageV6]

First of all I bypassed that cheesy switch thing.

Power goes right to the pump wires.

I guess that would be the cranked mode.

What does the pump regulate? Why would resistors be any different than a PWM signal?

Assuming constant power load operation, ie. one speed.

That pump pulsates big time no real way of explaining that away. Gonna have to check out the NOS nozzles.

50 watt heat sunk resistors very little heat when operated for 15 seconds at a time.

 

[Razor]

I dont bypass the switch, It will limit the current output of the pump. I like it set at about 150 PSI max..which is about 10 amps

Second..50 watt heat sunk resistors..two bad theories..first is the following formula.. P=ExI Power is equal to voltage times current.

With that pump switch bypassed that pump can draw in excess of 12 amps..so lets see.. 12volts x 12amps =144 watts.. your a little low there on 50..secondly..i'm not going to get into controlling motors with rheostats/resistors..cuase as the load increases the more voltage thats dropped across the resistor..let alone it makes the motor lazy..

Ya dont recall the pressure thread..where you have boost pressure in the up-pipe and the pump is fighting the boost pressure..there you have a load scenario. let alone jetting.

Its not the nozzles..

If you find a cheaper way of doing this..let me know..i'll be first in line.

If your burn out your 50 watt resistor..you get zero alky and a blown headgasket.

The driver in my kits is rated at 35 amps..and its heat sunk

 

[salvageV6]

Mine only draws about 4 amperes and I do have a meter on it.

Maybe I got a bum one.

It would be my luck.

How exactly does that switch work? On/Off or is there actual current limiting electronics in there?

I thought it was a pressure cycling switch. On/off causing increased pulsations.

If there is current limiting in it I will reconnect it.

The resistors work fine the pump doesn't.

 

[Razor]

The lower the pressure output the lower the current draw. And.. the lower the voltage the lower the pressure.

See that pump has 3/8 output fittings designed for much larger hoses, and with a 3/8 hose the 60 PSI its preset at is usually more than adequate.

So, if you decrease the line size it builds up more pressure, and it will bury my 10 AMP supply at 8 volts using 2-M10 jets. At over 130+ PSI(buried guage as well). If you run 12 volts without a pressure switch on a small line..it will self destruct in no time. Assuming no pressure switch.

So to explain your readings, what is happening is that the resistors are absorbing a lot of the voltage and consequently limiting the power to your pump. If you drop the resistance value, the current will increase from 4 to ??? . And so will its output pressure. depending on resistor selected.

Hope this makes some sense...

Unfortunately the resistors dont help with regulation.

 

[salvageV6]

Yeah I know what it's designed for, watering system in an RV.

Certainly not alky. injection.

Two nozzles will be a must and I will try to get it regulated again to run more smoothly. Testing is relatively easy with it once you get it plumbed up.

Can't wait to see the flow pattern with some NOS nozzles.

 

[Red Regal T]

God, I don't know how I ever got mine to work, problem free, for the past 3 1/2 years.

 

[PaulRV6]

oh no!!!

I'm sure glad I asked the question of which size nozzle to use, this is getting very interesting.
Actually it is scaring me. Is it really this complicated????

paul

 

[Razor]

Re: oh no!!!

Originally posted by PaulRV6
I'm sure glad I asked the question of which size nozzle to use, this is getting very interesting.
Actually it is scaring me. Is it really this complicated????

paul

For a 12 second Buick.. nope not complicated. the discussion started when pulsing the pump was questioned.

RedRegalT has had his pulsing at 60 PSI for years and no problem. Except for some transitional knock he remedies by hitting the activation button as he mashes the pedal.

But he's not running his car on the tight rope like some of us are. Or care/want too.

Get stuck ask..thats why we are all here. Many ways to do this and they all point in the same direction. Pump,nozzle and electronics.

Simple

 

[Razor]

I hear ya Steve, I get knock from shifts..I get knock from suspension, and get knock from the motor when squeezed very far.

I will say that spraying while the pedal gets mashed makes a difference in the amount of knock..could be lines need to be primed before making the run..or you make the run, lines are still primed..

Lastly, when you run the car and lift, there is alcohol inside your up-pipe. cuase the throttle blade got closed as it was spraying, so what happens then is as soon as you run it again..not only are the lines filled, but you have some alky in the IC as well getting blown back through the motor. hence the reduced knock numbers. I really see this effect when spraying huge pressure/volume.

I dont think the ecm is lazy..once its learned..its learned. And electronic.

Just thinking out loud

 

[Razor]

I notice that driving with a marginally opened up throttle blade, the alky in the IC/up-pipe doesnt drain unless the blade is opened and a substantial amount of air is moved. Your kinda getting a progressive in the fact that little alcohol is now being injected when the blade gets cracked wide open. When you prime your system, same thing occurs..you shoot alcohol into the IC..you go to WOT..alky is there.

I havent played with how much the alcohol washes down oil from the PCV within the intake as another factor. Your throttle body and intake get an oil film while driving around from sucking in oil vapors. Alcohol is a really nice degreaser.. and oil will cuase detonation.

Throwing ideas around..wish I was in an alky wind tunnel

Julio

BTW.. I love them one mile roads.. thats why we own Turbo cars

 

[sstock]

I also bypassed the switch, no pulsation. You might have to nozzle down because of pressures around 130psi. This is great for atomization. The only way to fly. Buy your shurflo from northern then pay 10 bucks for free replacement when pump goes out, hehe!
Pressure switch is by no means the way to control the flow of solution, it regulates a pressure difference of at least 20psi.
Balls to the wall, the only way to fly