Why a buick over a gm 3800??

[turbo50]

hey guys
im in two minds contemplating a turbo build up..
basically i can go either a buick or a l67 type v6.. and put a turbo on it, what i l;ike about the gm v6's is they have cross bolted 4 bolt mains, are lighter and have better factory heads and manifold... only thing is their aftermarket is a bit more expensive..
Are they much better of an engine or should i just stick to the buick and get a crank girdle?

 

[ijames]

How much power do you plan to make, and what engine management system do you want to use? The "old" motors are good to 500+ flywheel hp on the stock turbo crank, pistons, and block, and the ecm already knows about boost (and lots of chips and tuning aids are available). The bleeding edge TSM guys are getting 800+ flywheel hp out of the stock blocks. My guess is that with the l67 motor you will have to go to an aftermarket ecm at a much lower hp threshold than you would with the 109 block. Anyway, start with a hp goal and plan a combination from there.

 

[GS70350]

Hmm, Although its now a corporate engine, the 3800 is still a Buick designed masterpiece : )

With that being said, either engine should be a real ground pounder with boost.

What kind of car will recieve your "turbo build up"?

The new L67s are nice, they are efficient, get 30mpg on the highway, and run real smooth. Id like to put one in a RWD setup like a little street rod, using a camaro manual trans.

For a RWD drag application go with the old reliable 3.8 turbo buick setup.

For something out of the ordinary that may take a thick wallet, go with a L67 and enjoy the refinement.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

I think the reason you see people using the old LC2's is because they work they have been around long enough for people to really know how to tune them and such, and they are still quite available in terms of the hard parts like blocks and rods and the Eagle crank. The other big problem is that the L67/L32 is an frontwheel drive only motor and the oilpan packaging doesn't help either.
Honestly if you had to start from scratch a L67/L32, which are the same except for a different intake and blower, or the L36 NA motor with the right internals would work better for reasons you pointed out such as block strength, head flow, and wieght as they did cut several inches off the deck height while keeping the 3.8/3.4 bore/stroke. It is even possible to get an old LC2 computer to run a newer motor with the correct replacement of sensors and putting the right leads into the right connector for the ECM. This would work best with either a stand alone or a manual transmission since the LC2 computer doesn't have the required transmission controls to run a 4l60E which is the only thing that bolts up rearwheel drive wise.
I'd like to do it the other way and have the L67 computer run my old 4.1 turbo motor. The processor power and data streams are much better and they use a better combination of MAF, MAP, and O2 data to control the engine in much tighter parameters.
I think we'll start to see it when we start running out of 109 blocks and LC2 intakes.

 

[turbofish38]

SLPR. Just a correction on your engine codes. The F-body 3800 is the L36. The L32 is the Chevy 60 degree 3400.

I doubt 109 blocks will be hard to find anytime soon as that casting was used in hundreds of thousands NA Cutlass's and Regals and Champion has come out with new turbo intakes. Come to think of it,now might be the time to stock pile some of those boneyard 109's. It used be(for me anyway) at any one time I could find 109 castings anytime I wanted. My last trip to one of the yards I didn't see any.

If I was to build a 3800(NA or forced ind.) I would use the shortblock from a L67 as they appear to have a thicker block and better cranks and rods.

 

[Pronto]

http://www.intense-racing.com/video/badssei_1095.mpeg FWD and heavy. Imagine that in a rwd?

 

[Turbo1dr]

I'd be worried about the small flywheel bolt circle not holding up to 500+ HP. Looks like it would just strip/rip the bolts/flywheel in that section clean out.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

SLPR. Just a correction on your engine codes. The F-body 3800 is the L36. The L32 is the Chevy 60 degree 3400.

If I was to build a 3800(NA or forced ind.) I would use the shortblock from a L67 as they appear to have a thicker block and better cranks and rods.

The L32 is the series III supercharged engine offered in the 2004 through current Pontiac GTP. It has much improved coldforged powdered metal rods, throttle by wire, different lower intake, and a slightly different Eaton M90 supercharger that is coated and I believe has teflon strips on the rotors for increased sealing.
You'd want to use an L67/L32 short block and L36 heads as the L67's have the injectors in the heads and you have to use a supercharger case as part of the manifold or custom fab up an uppep plenum. Some guys have boosted an L36 and blown the composite intake up though. I'd like to do it sometime, but that will come later... much later likely.

 

[turbofish38]

The L32 is the series III supercharged engine offered in the 2004 through current Pontiac GTP.

Duh, Yes you are correct. I keep forgetting about these. The NA is a L26. It doesn't make a difference now as 05 is the last year for these engines. If I'm not mistaken all series 2 3800's have PM rods too. I wonder how much power PM rods can take. I've just had to rebuild the LT1 in my Roadmaster and it also has PM rods. Kind of neat looking. They are supposed to be just as strong as the old style forged and lighter in weight.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Most of the Powdered metal rods out there today are cast powdered metal, which are stronger than cast iron but still weaker than a set of forgings. The L32 rods are cold forged powdered metal which makes them about as good as a good set of conventional forged rods but not up to H-beam rods. Use the L32 rods and some diamond pistons in an L36 motor and you could stack a lot of booste on it before she'd pop anything metal, its the composite intake you'd have to worry about letting go due to pressure.

 

[steveX]

I must step in here. The LC2 is truly a high performance motor in its time. the L67 is a way better block than the LC2. the L67 block is about 75lbs more that the LC2 "Hint" the L67 is a much better casting, with four billet cross bolt main caps, the skirt of the block is tuffer. the L67 OBDII PCM is a more advance engine management than E-PROM. the only thing that rob the L67 of horsepower is the M90 s/c. It take huge amount of hp to spin the m90 when it comes to making serious hp. the FWD set-up is another design which hinder the L67. the FWD platform was not design for dragracing in GM eyes. I must say i enjoy driving a 400+whp L67 . the car perform amazing. I am yet to experance the street manners of the LC2. I love both of these motor, and i am sure just like any other engine, they all have some down-fall.

 

[at7we2]

L36 in a turbo Regal??

(thread hijack warning! )

has anyone converted an L36 for use in a turbo Regal? It seems like I've seen this question on here before, but I don't think I ever saw the answer and I was not able to dig it up with a quick search.

it *seems* like a logical move given the newer 3800's "refinements" and availability. anyone have any idea what would be involved?

thanks,
Rob

 

[CTX-SLPR]

the L67 block is about 75lbs more that the LC2 "Hint" the L67 is a much better casting, with four billet cross bolt main caps, the skirt of the block is tuffer

So despite being about 2" shorter in deck height, the block is heavier? now thats is some increased beef.

Can you hook me up with someone that can help me get the L67 computer to run my LC2?

Thanks,

 

[trading t/a]

Anyone know of the water jacket placements on the l67? Can gn1's be stacked on the block, if so maybe a hybrid is the answer. Roller cam, lifters, rockers, cross bolted mains with the top end of the lc2 bolted in palce would be awesome.......

As long as they didn't do anything dramatic with the water jackets welding up the ones in the heads and making new ones might be the answer....

Take a lokk at this

http://thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php?threadid=178262

Here's your answer.....

 

[turbo50]

I must step in here. The LC2 is truly a high performance motor in its time. the L67 is a way better block than the LC2. the L67 block is about 75lbs more that the LC2 "Hint" the L67 is a much better casting, with four billet cross bolt main caps, the skirt of the block is tuffer. the L67 OBDII PCM is a more advance engine management than E-PROM. the only thing that rob the L67 of horsepower is the M90 s/c. It take huge amount of hp to spin the m90 when it comes to making serious hp. the FWD set-up is another design which hinder the L67. the FWD platform was not design for dragracing in GM eyes. I must say i enjoy driving a 400+whp L67 . the car perform amazing. I am yet to experance the street manners of the LC2. I love both of these motor, and i am sure just like any other engine, they all have some down-fall.

sorry guys im not up to date with the lingo but is the lc2 the older buick block?? if so u SURE its 75lbs heavier?? i read the l67 type blocks are lighter? especially considering they have an inch smaller deck

 

[steveX]

75lbs might be off but i will check and see if i can post pic side-by-side L67-LC2. its too late to check if the LAC2 heads will fit the l67, i just install the LCA2 on the 109 block. i`ll get back at ya.