WOT correction OFF with Alky?

[TurboBuRick]

when tuning using alky and a aftermarket ECU's i generally set the correction limits to never be able to pull fuel. but add fuel as a safety. just in case something happens.


Also i think the best way for the alky to be injected is using the smallest nozzle with the highest amount of pump pressure you can make. Doing this will make the droplets way smaller and then alky will be far more efficient.

Somthing i have been thinking about lately is the the amount of time the progressive kits take to reach full voltage. It's in that dead time that the pump pressure is low and the alky is not being atomized very well it any at all. It's very possible that it could be entering as a small stream.


I presonally think there should be a poppet valve on alky line the don't allow any alky to flow untill the pressure reaches x to over come the valve. This might would take care to the low pressure low atomaztion area i'm referring too.


Bison i also agree that for the very short time in first gear one can get away with a tad more boost or delaying the alky coming on as there are other tables adding fuel and having the extra fuel being added makes it hell to tune.

Very good point here as well. I have the same thoughts. The nozzles work much better with small orifice and more pressure. Honestly I think we could be running 4 to 5 times pressure we run now but would need a belt driven mechanical pump to do that.

Don, what are you using for a alky pump?

 

[Alky V6]

Very good point here as well. I have the same thoughts. The nozzles work much better with small orifice and more pressure. Honestly I think we could be running 4 to 5 times pressure we run now but would need a belt driven mechanical pump to do that.

Don, what are you using for a alky pump?

Weldon model 2345A. I'm using typical E fuel injection pressures. Idle pressure is 45 psi. Even the mechanical nozzles of the aux fuel system are seeing the same pressure as the E injectors. Nothing wild.

 

[Alky V6]

For large amounts of alcohol injection, I would think that dividing the volume being injected amongst six smaller nozzles would be better than through one or two large nozzles.

 

[Alky V6]

Don your Champion Plugs would work in a pump gas/alky car better than the NGK's?

Yes. Any plug design with a shorter ground strap.

 

[Alky V6]

whats the nice plug for cast iron heads?

You guys will have to search that one out yourselves. Find a plug with a short ground strap.

 

[Grumpy]

Honestly I think we could be running 4 to 5 times pressure we run now but would need a belt driven mechanical pump to do that.

I think you guys are putting to much "thinking" into this. Oh... sorry... forgot its WINTER !! Ok we all need 5 nozzles and a weldon pump.. Then we will all run 8s right??

 

[Alky V6]

I doubt 8s. But, might keep some HGs on the car.

 

[SloGN]

Need to step up to 200 PSI sensors

Never thought guys would be pushing pressures up.. nice to see a healthy pump doing its job

Razor


With higher pump pressures and a tad smaller nozzle the droplet size is reduced. This can make the alky evaporate faster and maybe reduce puddling, and maybe reduce the total amount of alky needed.

 

[Razor]

Razor


With higher pump pressures and a tad smaller nozzle the droplet size is reduced. This can make the alky evaporate faster and maybe reduce puddling, and maybe reduce the total amount of alky needed.

I dont think so. If you put 25 GPH worth of nozzles whether 25 M1's or 5 M5's, or M15+m10... and the alcohol is misted with sufficient pressure.. its the same amount. If puddling from "overspraying" will happen with two nozzles.. it will happen with 25 nozzles. meaning if your oversaturating the air with methanol.. your over saturating it. The nozzles will be fully atomized probably 50-60 PSI pressure.. and these cars run 120-140 PSI. Methanol flash temp is 70 df. If its misted and 70 DF exists.. the meth is gone. Inside the intake manifold temps are normally whatever the coolant temp is. It would be normal to see 140+ degree's as your driving/cruising around. Once the TB opens up air rushes in and the temp drops.. but the aluminum intake is still hot.

Guys reading this.. remember its 11df per psi boost. So 15 PSI is 165+ambient. That gets cooled down by the IC. To what extent depends on the IC and air goingthrough its fins. Thats why 70 degree's is easy to get. Why meth injection works really good with smaller IC's..as they dont pull all the heat out of the charge.

Now going outside the box here.. the smaller the diameter of the up-pipe the more velocity the air has. Possibly increasing the diameter of the pipe can slow the air down and help the process. Also in that realm exists the possibility of adding a deflector/chamber/divider/etc into the pipe so the air can be slowed down. Kinda like a Flowmaster muffler with baffles. But this is my thinking outside the box.

Biggest problem I see is nozzle envy. Whereas cars that dont need twin nozzles setups are using them... and overspraying the motors creating distribution issues.

Buick tuning 101.. max power is made when riding on the edge of knocking. meaning spraying just enough so that the knock sensor is quiet. Old term.. "tickling the knock sensor". Flooding the motor only creates distribution problems. Coupled with cold weather its a bad news thing.

Tune tune tune. Start at low boost and work your way up as the car responds to it. In a hurry for instant gratification... your more than likely make a mistake.

Great thread guys... I cant tell you how many Buicks i've had to do HG's on that came in with low gas tanks.

 

[Grumpy]

I doubt 8s. But, might keep some HGs on the car.

we don't have headgasket problems. Keep it simple an so far its working very good . Just been watching an tryin to decipher what the prob is with guys eating headgaskets, pistons and alum heads.

 

[TurboBuRick]

I think you guys are putting to much "thinking" into this. Oh... sorry... forgot its WINTER !! Ok we all need 5 nozzles and a weldon pump.. Then we will all run 8s right??

LOL! Ya well, you know me.

I was thinking 6 super small nozzles. One for each cylinder Built into a custom spacer plate. Forget about the weldon. That's a pea shooter. I'm thinking a belt driven piston pump capable of 1000psi. Alky would be instant steam.

Now for some out of the box thinking.

Really though, to say alky is not atomized better under more pressure is hard to swallow. Specially from my perspective. I have pumps at the car wash running 1500psi. More pressure will definitely atomize better.

RL

 

[Grumpy]

LOL! Ya well, you know me.

I was thinking 6 super small nozzles. One for each cylinder Built into a custom spacer plate. Forget about the weldon. That's a pea shooter. I'm thinking a belt driven piston pump capable of 1000psi. Alky would be instant steam.

Now for some out of the box thinking.

Really though, to say alky is not atomized better under more pressure is hard to swallow. Specially from my perspective. I have pumps at the car wash running 1500psi. More pressure will definitely atomize better.

RL

 

[Grumpy]

well back in 87 we ran a "six pack" NOS system. At that time I was talking a little to Kenny D as he was already pushing the Buicks pretty good. We had a single nozzle in the plenum tube. Ran 11.9s with it with a bone stock motor. Soooo the new system came out an man did it have the "cool guy" look . BUT it really didn't do much. Then talking to Kenny he had played with it a lot and ended up goin back to the single nozzle. I know this is like apples to oranges BUT to me it stills go back the BIGGER isn't always better.

 

[TurboBuRick]

Roger that Dan. That's what I run too. A single nozzle.

Mostly I'm thinking out loud here but I do plan on some experimenting. Like you said, it 's winter.

 

[TurboBuRick]

Last night I pulled the plugs and cut back the ground straps. First thought was that the car would not idle and cruise as nice. To my surprise the car runs no different. Idles and cruises just like it did. Got one short WOT blast in. Ran good.

The streets still have salt dust so I did not stay out long. More to come.

 

[Alky V6]

Last night I pulled the plugs and cut back the ground straps. First thought was that the car would not idle and cruise as nice. To my surprise the car runs no different. Idles and cruises just like it did. Got one short WOT blast in. Ran good.

The streets still have salt dust so I did not stay out long. More to come.

Cutting back ground straps is an old street racers trick that I used to do way back in the 70s. Make sure that when you cut back the strap that you leave a square end and sharp edges at the end of the strap. SHARP edges is very, very important. The sharp edge makes it easier for the spark to jump the gap. Cut, then use a spark plug file to finish off the end.
I sure hope you can find a model of plug that you can use with your model of heads. It gets old real quick having to cut back ground straps.

 

[TurboBuRick]

Not easy to get the cut straight that's for sure. I'm on the same page though. Thanks!

I have GN-1's I'm going to try the champs.

RL

 

[murphster]

You should look at the plug I'm using for GN1s. Some fast people have used them with these heads.

Autolite Racing AR 3934. This is what they look like out of the box.

 

[Alky V6]

That looks like a very good plug to try. I wonder how fat the ground electrode is compared to the Champs.
The shorter or fatter the ground electrode, the easier it can transfer heat to the thread section and then to the heads. You want to look for short AND fat, if it's possible to find both in one plug design.

Remember, I stated that the ground strap on the Champ is so short, I can barely get the gap to close down to my gap spec of .022". Can't get much shorter than that. The shorter, the better.

 

[TurboBuRick]

You should look at the plug I'm using for GN1s. Some fast people have used them with these heads.

Autolite Racing AR 3934. This is what they look like out of the box.

Thanks Murphster. I'll grab a set of those as well.