WOT correction OFF with Alky?

[jasjamz]

Got me there. It wasnt 40*. However I purchased my alky kit in 2007. Seen plenty of winter and cold weather driving. Never blew a headgasket. 25psi or more was my norm. My car may not have been as fast as some but that doesnt matter. I have posted a very logical explanation for this stuff before but it was ridiculed and overlooked. No problem. You seem to be getting upset here so I will just read, no more posting from me.

 

[kidglok]

with the alky on 6, on my xfi...the VE numbers go from 84 at 6psi, to 62 at 20. thats a lot of fuel being supplemented by alcohol. And thats with the out-of-the-box controller settings.

just sayin'

 

[Razor]

While you were running 155+ I was taking it easy on Thurs in no-mistakes mode at 18-19 psi boost, 21/20* timing and trapped 125+ picking up 27.3mph out the back Alky is fun!

Hey I was simply testing pump gas and methanol and it ran 155.xx twice at 25 PSI boost. What i'd give to have 40 degree weather and really get some numbers from that dense air.

So.. cold air theory bugging ya out....
I got the fix. And its cheap tooo.. A piece of cardboard and block the intercooler. It turns into a heatsink and heats up the air. Problem solved. Like the 18 wheelers use in the winter to block off the radiator.

Few years ago we where in Reynolds and it was high 30's at the track.. added some extra fuel into the mix.. not a problem. Tune it in the summer.. race it in the winter without compensating.. your done like fried chicken.

 

[Razor]

with the alky on 6, on my xfi...the VE numbers go from 84 at 6psi, to 62 at 20. thats a lot of fuel being supplemented by alcohol. And thats with the out-of-the-box controller settings.

just sayin'

Did you try tuning it out on C12 or C16 and see what the numbers would have been? Then pull out fuel and replace with meth? 15-20% is the norm. So if your on target at 62, then on straight fuel you should be at 73-78 depending on timing run.

 

[Razor]

Yep! I am learning more and more every car I touch, and thread I read. Test button, alky red/green light. and no knock...omit one and you go on my "Headgasket Wall of Shame" Just pulled the heads off a motor I ran at over 30psi on pump gas and alky car a few passes at the Osceola Buick Midwest Challange event in 2011. Stock type gaskets in shape. Correction was on and it was adding, not pulling fuel.

Jason.. costs money to go to college. No different than dealing with a car your beating on.

 

[TurboTnZ06]

Hey I was simply testing pump gas and methanol and it ran 155.xx twice at 25 PSI boost. What i'd give to have 40 degree weather and really get some numbers from that dense air.

So.. cold air theory bugging ya out....
I got the fix. And its cheap tooo.. A piece of cardboard and block the intercooler. It turns into a heatsink and heats up the air. Problem solved. Like the 18 wheelers use in the winter to block off the radiator.

Few years ago we where in Reynolds and it was high 30's at the track.. added some extra fuel into the mix.. not a problem. Tune it in the summer.. race it in the winter without compensating.. your done like fried chicken.

155 is gettin' it done!

I don't have any cold air theory, I'll predict it's friggin' gonna be hot this summer and alky is the cure. The DA was over 2000 ft for us last week at Bradenton. For heat, I don't even run my fan at the track and my little V4 IC is probably plenty hot enough if I logged it. My car is liking the alky as I tune more and more in the FL heat. One day I'll be able to go faster than JD, once I turn it up on the new tune. Last week we were 1 and 1 each.

I'm using dual alky and WOT correction and its been fine. My car doesn't seem to care if its hot or cold. It was chilly at BG this year, but I ran 130+ mph and I was unknowingly running rich over compensating 1.0 on the A/F because my wideband was reading .5v off, luckily on the lean side so it added 30% fuel to try to get to 10.7 but it was really 10.0-9.7, but that's a different problem. At 26-27 psi I was spraying on 12:30 in the controller and 8 on the gain and my 80# inj were at 75% dutycycle. No knock, imagine that, just black smoke. Later out of paranoia I added a bit of fuel and turned the boost down, at 18 psi it blew the spark completely out and the engine would shut down once it hit 18 psi boost or so.

 

[pacecarta]

have to factor in that 10% of our gas is now ethanol so i rarely run less injector than what it would be based on current tables for its performance

i havent run any thing other than 93 in my 87 since razors first kit came out and my 86 has been on 93 since 2005 and never ran it on c16 , before i switched to alky i was on 93 with 25% 112 added

wouldnt know first hand of c16 fuel consumption only what the tables say it should be , if i did run c16 it would be targeted for a much leaner af of 11.3- 11.5 ,

the fact that im on 93 (techinacally it could be called E10) i target richer these days , what once i would push 11.1-11.3 on 93 now I target 10.5-10.8

my injector duty is 67% (86# inj) wot at current performance level at 5800rpm , 10.5af

thats 57.5 lb hr good for 690 hp on fuel alone (if it werent blended with ethanol)
performance calcs put my power at 688
plus two nozzles (m10-m15) of methanol at 135psi (gain at 5)

oh and as for da , my track is at 62 ft and have run nights when it was not only cold but DA was -1800ft

 

[blackdeathtrap]

heres an idee i though of dos any one remeber the old style injection system. that had one injector inside intake manifold with 4 6 or 8 popet valces one for each cilender. instaling that type of system to inject alky evenly and timed that it only opens for cylender on intake cycle would that not completely avoid the problem of pooling and rich or lean cylenders . i could be on to something here or just blowing hot air

 

[TurboBuRick]

heres an idee i though of dos any one remeber the old style injection system. that had one injector inside intake manifold with 4 6 or 8 popet valces one for each cilender. instaling that type of system to inject alky evenly and timed that it only opens for cylender on intake cycle would that not completely avoid the problem of pooling and rich or lean cylenders . i could be on to something here or just blowing hot air

That's exactly what we need. Something like Donnie's system but simplified. Even if it did puddle the cylinder would still get the fuel it needs. The problem now when it puddles the liquid has a hard time trying to do a 180 back into 1 and 2 runner.

 

[we4Mateo]

When the charge air temp increases i use more methanol volume and increase timing. When it gets cold out i reduce the alky volume and decrease timing. The exact opposite of what is normally done with timing on a gas engine.

x2, I run my car in the Winter when roads are clear the exact same way with great results. Feels like it pulls hard still anyway.

 

[Razor]

That's exactly what we need. Something like Donnie's system but simplified. Even if it did puddle the cylinder would still get the fuel it needs. The problem now when it puddles the liquid has a hard time trying to do a 180 back into 1 and 2 runner.

All this is crap without data to support it. Somebody will hurt an engine then say the methanol had gotten water in it or was bad..

I have an idea.. you'll see

Pull the intake of that engine and snap a shot to see if the rears where "washed down".

 

[TurboBuRick]

Just for the record. This car and it's components (i.e. fuel system, relays, wiring) is all way overkill and above average for the set up. Not to say there is not a problem but this car is rock solid. The chances of something else being the cause is slim.

It's always #1 and #2 when this type of thing comes up. If it was just #1 I might be concerned with the fuel system. Adding #2 tells me something and I don't need a data log to see it. IMO The indicators are there. If it was #5 and #6 I would not be here wasting my time.

Soon as I get it out and on the stand I'll get some pic's.

RL

 

[Alky V6]

I wish someone would put a stock intake on a wet flow bench and get all this speculation over with. I think many would be very surprised.

 

[Mr.Spool]

i have a question,has anyone hurt their motor tuning in an afr between 9.7-10.4,22 degrees or lower with boost below 28psi?

 

[Jerryl]

Just for the record. This car and it's components (i.e. fuel system, relays, wiring) is all way overkill and above average for the set up. Not to say there is not a problem but this car is rock solid. The chances of something else being the cause is slim. ........... RL

Just wondering . . . . Does this car run a PP?

 

[bison]

I wish someone would put a stock intake on a wet flow bench and get all this speculation over with. I think many would be very surprised.

How do you duplicate g force on a wet flow bench? Someone can just log all 6 cylinder egt's and watch the front get hotter and hotter as the alky vaporizes less and less. if the system is working properly wet flow doesn't matter since most of the alky should vaporize and is no longer wet.

 

[TurboBuRick]

Just wondering . . . . Does this car run a PP?

Yes sir...

 

[Alky V6]

How do you duplicate g force on a wet flow bench? Someone can just log all 6 cylinder egt's and watch the front get hotter and hotter as the alky vaporizes less and less. if the system is working properly wet flow doesn't matter since most of the alky should vaporize and is no longer wet.

Perfect. Someone needs to monitor individual EGTs then.
I think if someone were to introduce a very fine water mist into the air intake going into a stock manifold on a wet flow bench, it would open some eyes. Not saying a perfect simulation of what is happening on the engine with correct temps and all the other variables would be possible, but just seeing how the water would act would be very interesting and enlightening. It would help people better visualize what I think the individual EGTs would try to tell them.

 

[Alky V6]

Didn't someone say they were getting 40 degree readings in the plenum? People. If you are introducing fuel into a plenum that is measuring 40 degrees F, you are getting fuel fallout. No doubt about that. Fuel fallout is going to mean unequal distribution with a stock TR manifold. With or without a power plate.

 

[kidglok]

is there evidence to support the idea of a better designed intake manifold alleviating some of the problems discussed?