Yet another AC question

[Little6pack]

Well I decided to use the AC first time this summer.
Since we only have very limitied 80 to 90 days I decided
to use the AC. NOT!
Blew luke cold air
It worked last year. I have been disconnecting the orange Ecm wire & also the battery for chip install/destall & fpump install.
during past month.

Anyway I went to buy the 134 KIT at AUTO Zone.
The counter person asked me what I was putting it into.
I said 86GN. Told him I did not know if the converstion to 134
was ever done.
He suggested taking it to PRO AC shop to get some parts in the compressor changed?
I asked him why the 134 said it has oil to convert?

I read some archived AC threads & see they sell FREEZE12
What should I do?

 

[Blown&Injected]

I have never used the freeze 12, but if you have some cooling, I would try to find some R-12. If it is leaking enough to require more than a pound per summer then try something else.

Have not used it in the GN, but other 134 conversions have worked great!

 

[SuperSix]

You may want to service a few items before you start recharging the system. New o-rings, new accumulator, and you HAVE TO HAVE A GOOD VACUUM PUMP.

 

[scottyb]

I'm in the same boat, almost. When the car sits in the sun on a > 90 degree day, it takes forever to cool it down. By next summer I plan to "try" one of those alternatives and just add it to my r12. The compressor already moans a bit, so I figger I don't have much to lose, by attempting other stuff.

 

[dgreene]

I've used Freeze 12 many times with great success. I've even done complete recharges with the stuff with no ill effects. The only thing that I've noticed is that on some vehicles it didn't cool as good as others, which is common even with R-12.

 

[MeanBuicks]

I put two cans of Freeze-12 in my GN about 2 1/2 years ago because the charge had gotten low. (Actually, it was low for a couple years prior to that. )

Anyway, it's still going strong & my A/C system is 100% original with 225,000 miles on it.

 

[dgreene]

MeanBuicks, how much are they getting for a case or 30 lb. cannistor of Freeze 12 where you are?

Last 30 lb. cannistor I got was 110, which is a big jump from last year.

Case I think was 75 last I checked, also up from last years 60$.

 

[MeanBuicks]

Hmmm. Now that I don't know.

I only made the one purchase back in 2001 and that was for a case of 12 cans. It was right at $8/can back then. Haven't priced it recently though.

 

[Blown&Injected]

What a joke - the price of R____ gasses.

Remember when the R12 was LESS THAN ONE DOLLAR/CAN

The big joke is on us the stuff still must be recovered because it is not safe for the ozone layer.

Gezzz, if they are making new stuff at megga price it should have been made safe - wasn't that the reason for no more 12 in the first place!!!
[/rant over]

 

[dgreene]

Steve, you got that right. Roses used to put the stuff on sale sometimes.....2 / .99
We used to play with it like it was a toy it was so cheap. Funny thing is, now they discovered that the hole in the ozone has always been there and it just fluctuates AND R134a is actually worse than R12 since it doesn't take high temps or high preasure to make it destroy ozone.

One more thing to think about .....

If it takes high temps and preasures to make R12 bond with ozone and destroy it.........where in the upper atmosphere do you find high preasures? Pretty much proves it was a money racket. You know, like global warming. It's cooler this year where I'm at and we had more rain than anytime in the last 15 years. It just comes in cycles......

 

[Buick Beginner]

2 Cents

My car has been converted to R-134, make sure you know which system you have before you mess with freon. Pros and Cons:

Good:
R-134 is much CHEAPER
Can be purchased over the counter

Not so good:
R-134 Is not as efficient
R-134 makes the car run a little warmer (engine temp)

It's a toss up . - BB

 

[dgreene]

134a isn't to efficient in an old system.
On any conversion you need to flush the system, replace the dryer, install a variable orifice valve in place of the orifice tube, replace with the correct oil, and then vacuum the system. Auto Zone and the like never tell anyone that while trying to sell their conversion kits . After a system as been opened it needs to be vacuumed down to at least 29 hg's for 45 minutes to an hour. That makes sure that all air and water have been removed so to not displace or contaminate the freon. Since 134a uses a different oil, the flushing out is also VERY important. If the old and new oils are mixed they can sometimes coagulate and stop up the orifice tube or worse. Not good.

The easiest choice would be R-12 or Freeze 12. Talked around today and found that Freeze 12 is currently around 6 to 8 dollars a can and R-12 is around 25 to 30 depending on where you get it. Of course you need a federal # to get the R-12. Check with your local NAPA or "mom and pop" parts place for the Freeze 12. I also saw where you could order Freeze12 on the internet.

On a side note, a Ford orifice tube will work in place of the VOV in a pinch with decent results.

 

[Little6pack]

Freeze 12 on te net requires you to take a test or some type of permit for $30 before you can buy it.

so the mom pop or napa route would be best for me.
Unless I can find someone who would install r-12.

Is r-12 still availible to auto AC repair shops??

I have seen cans of r-12 at yard sales in the past
maybe it is time to start going to these tag sales & find
a couple of these cans that have been sitting in someones
garage.

 

[Blown&Injected]

Originally posted by dgreene
134a isn't to efficient in an old system.
On any conversion you need to flush the system, replace the dryer, install a variable orifice valve in place of the orifice tube, replace with the correct oil, and then vacuum the system. Auto Zone and the like never tell anyone that while trying to sell their conversion kits . After a system as been opened it needs to be vacuumed down to at least 29 hg's for 45 minutes to an hour. That makes sure that all air and water have been removed so to not displace or contaminate the freon. Since 134a uses a different oil, the flushing out is also VERY important. If the old and new oils are mixed they can sometimes coagulate and stop up the orifice tube or worse. Not good.

The easiest choice would be R-12 or Freeze 12. Talked around today and found that Freeze 12 is currently around 6 to 8 dollars a can and R-12 is around 25 to 30 depending on where you get it. Of course you need a federal # to get the R-12. Check with your local NAPA or "mom and pop" parts place for the Freeze 12. I also saw where you could order Freeze12 on the internet.

On a side note, a Ford orifice tube will work in place of the VOV in a pinch with decent results.

I have done the 134 conversion on three cars just by adding the oil and gas that comes in the kit and have had great results. In my Merc, I did not even evacuate the system and it worked great.

 

[digorok]

Conversion to R134

If your system is getting a little cold stick with r12. You'll be happier and it will cool better.
With a r134 conversion you'll need to change the accumulator, all O-rings, orifice tube, flush out as much of the oil as you can, add new r134 oil, vaccume the air out of the system, add the r134, and lastly you may have to add another electric fan to keep the condensor cool. This is if you want to do it right the first time.
I've done a bunch of conversions with mixed results. Basicly when the tempreture is cool both r12 and r134 are about the same. When it starts to get hot the r134 is not as cool.
The A/C industry is calling those refill kits "death kits". Reason being that after a while, it will kill the whole system, and if you want to fix it you'll have to replace the whole system.
Never tried freeze12, but I know it's a blend and cannot be reused like r12 or r134. If you decide to try it, add a little oil at the same time. R12 is still avalible, but is very expensive and not for the do-it -yourselfers.
Look for an honest A/C shop and have them check your system out. If the first thing they tell you is you need to convert to r134, look for another shop.
Sorry so long, but the more information you get, chances are you'll make the right choice for you.

 

[dgreene]

I have done the 134 conversion on three cars just by adding the oil and gas that comes in the kit and have had great results. In my Merc, I did not even evacuate the system and it worked great.

Sometimes you just get lucky. After helping to do a fleet of trucks for Sanders Brothers 1 out of 4 that you don't do correctly will just kill itself. Usually with a scammer substance that the mixed oils and gas produce. It will clog the orifice tube and the head preasure will go to high and that's all she wrote.

Good point digorok, I forgot to mention the o-rings.

 

[Blown&Injected]

My friend is a AC tech for 15 years. He too, said that the 134 was junk until he worked with it and years later he says all the flap about 134 is UL.

I have ZERO luck and plenty of bad luck but the several 134 conversions I have done have worked perfect and I did not change anything but the gas and used the oil that comes with the kit. I would also be the one to bitch about a system that does not work.

Same results as several others I know that have done the conversion.

I would venture to say that a few vehicles in a fleet would have failing AC's regardless or the type of gas.

 

[Gn-Krazzie]

Junkie Gn Needs Fix of Freeze-12

Sorry don't mean to hi-jack your Thread, but i was wondering if anyone had a few cans of R-134 or Freeze-12 they would like to part with. I don't have the luxury of walking into a parts store ( Canada) and buy the stuff over the counter. My Gn NEEDS a FIX of the stuff !! . Help a Canadian get his FIx !!!