I Just got a new radiator from Alradco, along with new hoses, clamps, etcetera. I was considering using a 160 thermostat when I do the instal. However, my car is bone stock with the factory chip. I understand that one of the main reasons for the 160 degree thermostat is that modern chips are designed to turn on the fans around the same temp whereas the stock chip turns on the fans around 210 degrees regardless of the thermostat temp. If this is the case, theoretically the 160 degree thermo wont really do anything once the car warms up. Is there anyone running a 160 on a stock car? Should I just stick with the 180? Thanks.
160 Degree Thermostat Irrelevant?
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Squid4life
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First off, you might consider upgrading that chip, and stashing it somewhere safe. The newer chips like Bob Bailey's and Eric Marshall's (turbotweak) offer much better driveability and can even help economy.
Second, where do you live and what are the temps your car can see? I think you will be just fine with the 180 since you have the ALRADCO. That rad is a beast! I ran a front mount, used both engine and trans coolers, and still ran nice and cool. With a stock fan even! You were smart to upgrade the rad, you should never have to worry about it again!
Second, where do you live and what are the temps your car can see? I think you will be just fine with the 180 since you have the ALRADCO. That rad is a beast! I ran a front mount, used both engine and trans coolers, and still ran nice and cool. With a stock fan even! You were smart to upgrade the rad, you should never have to worry about it again!
1KWIKSIX
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X2 with Squid4life above.
When I installed my Alradco Radiator & new water pump & new transmission cooler, I found my coolant temps were too cool with the 160 deg thermostat.
Had to go back to the 180 degree stat & alter my fan on set point (higher) on my chip....they now turn on at 187deg F.
Cars can run too cool, which is not a good thing (for a street driven car)....Leave the 180 T-stat in and see how it goes before any further changes.
dave
When I installed my Alradco Radiator & new water pump & new transmission cooler, I found my coolant temps were too cool with the 160 deg thermostat.
Had to go back to the 180 degree stat & alter my fan on set point (higher) on my chip....they now turn on at 187deg F.
Cars can run too cool, which is not a good thing (for a street driven car)....Leave the 180 T-stat in and see how it goes before any further changes.
dave
I would like to get a chip but it is a confusing process. I am going to research it for sure. I live in the SF bay area so I have to deal with CA emissions.
Living here also means that I probably won't need the cooler thermostat, based on what you guys have said. It doesn't get really hot around here. Even with the stock leaky radiator the car stays around 180-190 under normal driving. The ALRADCO looks to be way more efficient. I am proud to support an American-made product like theirs. Their customer service was outstanding as well.
greeneyegi
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this summer i went from richmond to reno for the hot august nights.pretty hot on the way up"105"with ac on cruising and had to take the ac off going up the hills through roseville.210-215 degreees is too hot for me.im running the 160 stat.
definitely gonna upgrade to the alradco this winter.not alot of hills around here,but should be good with that cooler and the 180.
When I first got my car this summer I flushed the radiator because it was plugged. Didn't help. But , the thermostat was bad and wouldn't warm up to operating temperature. I replaced with a stock 180 thermostat and it was fine till I put the new TT chip in. I noticed that the fan was coming on way before the thermostat opened. I replaced it with a 160 fail safe. Well, with my plugged original radiator I was running hot on the highway going to the track on a 90 degree night. With the heat on high to try and help the car ran around 210 all the way there. The air coming off the fan wasn't even warm. I put in an Alradco and took it for a ride. 110 with both coolers. The failsafe thermostat locked open. Had to release the locks and now it stays between 160 and 165 at all times. Very impressed with the radiator. I would recommend a new chip, what a difference in drivability 27 years of technology can make. Worth the money just for the idle quality improvement. Then have them burn it for the higher temp thermostat. My TT chip doesn't let me adjust fan on, but I'm sure Eric can do it. They can do emissions chips. I luckily don't have to worry about that because of the age of the car but NY is getting almost as bad as California.
In your climate thermostat is not going to make a differance. I would go 180*. I think stock was 195*. I have read articles on tests that about 180* is optimal temp for an engine. Way better than 160*. I have a 160* and it runs cool sometimes in colder weather.
You're kind of crazy for not getting a TurboTweak chip. You are leaving 20-40 HP on the table plus MPG and driveability will be better.
You're kind of crazy for not getting a TurboTweak chip. You are leaving 20-40 HP on the table plus MPG and driveability will be better.
VtheGNMan
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Just a side note on the chip order process. Eric at turbo tweak makes it super easy. You can call him if you are nervous about his online order sheet. He is an outstanding guy! He even has an emissions chip for super cheap too for the tests.
I emailed Eric on Friday. I haven't heard back from him yet. I am going to call him today and order a chip! I don't have a scanmaster or power logger. Do I need them at this point? Or is it as easy as just popping in a new chip? I am considering getting one of the above to monitor the engine but I can only afford one upgrade at a time.
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Good call on getting the chip...you will love it......you do not need the scanmaster or power logger to put in the chip but you will need the scanmaster as one of your first upgrades to see how your vehicle is performing...highly recommended.
VtheGNMan
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Ditto on the scanmaster, it can wait but hopefully not too long.
You don't need it to swap the chips, simply disconnect the battery or there is an orange plug that runs along the inner fender you can unplug otherwise. For most it seems to have been routed behind the overflow tank. Unplugging this will only take power away from the computer and allow a safe swap of chips. Swap chips and reconnect. When you turn your key over to the start position, (without engaging the starter) the Service engine light soon should come on then go off. If it blinks the chip is not making the right connection. If all is good, go ahead and start and take a short in town drive (15-20 mins). This will let the computer learn the new perimeters of the new chip. After that you should be good to go. The vast majority of the chips Eric makes do not any further adjustments and I'd say that would hold true for you too as you have an almost all stock set up. To make any adjustments you would need a scanmaster. In fact, without a scanmaster you will never know if you need to do anything to optimize your configuration.
The scanmaster is just a way for you to be able to tell what the car is doing and how the sensors are all reading. It can help you tune the car but also just provide you with a good overall peace of mind that the car is running how it should. I was amazed at how much you learn about the car just from what the scanmaster can tell you. I think the common misconception is that you only need a scanmaster if you take your car to the track or street race it. Totally false. More like, if you want to save your car and want to be able to enjoy it for many more miles, get a scanmaster. Cheap $250 insurance policy or they will pop up on the used part section from time to time.
You don't need it to swap the chips, simply disconnect the battery or there is an orange plug that runs along the inner fender you can unplug otherwise. For most it seems to have been routed behind the overflow tank. Unplugging this will only take power away from the computer and allow a safe swap of chips. Swap chips and reconnect. When you turn your key over to the start position, (without engaging the starter) the Service engine light soon should come on then go off. If it blinks the chip is not making the right connection. If all is good, go ahead and start and take a short in town drive (15-20 mins). This will let the computer learn the new perimeters of the new chip. After that you should be good to go. The vast majority of the chips Eric makes do not any further adjustments and I'd say that would hold true for you too as you have an almost all stock set up. To make any adjustments you would need a scanmaster. In fact, without a scanmaster you will never know if you need to do anything to optimize your configuration.
The scanmaster is just a way for you to be able to tell what the car is doing and how the sensors are all reading. It can help you tune the car but also just provide you with a good overall peace of mind that the car is running how it should. I was amazed at how much you learn about the car just from what the scanmaster can tell you. I think the common misconception is that you only need a scanmaster if you take your car to the track or street race it. Totally false. More like, if you want to save your car and want to be able to enjoy it for many more miles, get a scanmaster. Cheap $250 insurance policy or they will pop up on the used part section from time to time.
Squid4life
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Make sure you report back with your results. I guarantee you will be very impressed. Chip change alone can make your car a completely different beast, in power, idle quality, and road/traffic manners.
Turbo6Smackdown
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A 160's relevant if you have warmer climates, or have the boost turned way up and race it often. For me, I run higher boost levels, and pretty much race it whenever I'm in the car. The entire reason for a Buick Grand National. If you want to cruise, buy a Civic 
MUCH wiser decision lol.
Remember, you're not supposed to go solely off of the coolant temp sensor's readings. Just because the coolant is THAT temperature around that sensor head, doesn't mean the coolant is that effective in absorbing and carrying away all heat around the engine/head. That whole "your running your engine too cool" stuff doens't really apply to a forced induction engine with increased boost levels. Trust me your cylinder pressure & thus combustion temps are hot enough to get the job done effectively. Just because your coolant temps may be 170 doesn't mean your heads are super cool. Your heads and the entire engine bay is warm. Nothings running TOO cool on a modified 109, unless you have a stock turbo, with alky or on E85, with an alradco, and dual fans running non stop on a 160 t-stat. Which you don't. Other than that, there's nothing wrong with a 160. It helps with running high boost levels. Though if you never plan on going over 15 psi, and it's not too hot where you are, you'll be fine with a 180.
MUCH wiser decision lol.Remember, you're not supposed to go solely off of the coolant temp sensor's readings. Just because the coolant is THAT temperature around that sensor head, doesn't mean the coolant is that effective in absorbing and carrying away all heat around the engine/head. That whole "your running your engine too cool" stuff doens't really apply to a forced induction engine with increased boost levels. Trust me your cylinder pressure & thus combustion temps are hot enough to get the job done effectively. Just because your coolant temps may be 170 doesn't mean your heads are super cool. Your heads and the entire engine bay is warm. Nothings running TOO cool on a modified 109, unless you have a stock turbo, with alky or on E85, with an alradco, and dual fans running non stop on a 160 t-stat. Which you don't. Other than that, there's nothing wrong with a 160. It helps with running high boost levels. Though if you never plan on going over 15 psi, and it's not too hot where you are, you'll be fine with a 180.
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Turbo6Smackdown
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You're wasting your time, unless your average summer temps never exceed the 70's. If they do, install the 160 and forget it. Look at all the high end tuners. Livernois, Calloway, Lingenfelter etc. etc. Most of their tune packages require a 160 T stat.
Erik needs to know what thermostat you have in order to program fan turn on. I believe his chips default at around 170* so unless you told him 180* your fan would constantly be on.
Here is some good reading: 170*-180* is optimal. I wish someone would make a 170* for our cars.
Livernois recommends 170*= http://www.f150forum.com/f70/livern...downpipe-170-degree-thermostat-172041/index5/
Reische recommends 170*-180*:
http://reischeperformance.com/WhyLowTemp.html#anchor
http://www.gmc4x4.com/topic/280-tech-tips-thermostat-theories-and-cooling-system-explained/
And check out the chart in post#12: http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/v6-tech/240782-2001-v6-160-180-degree-thermostat.html
1KWIKSIX
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If you've got your heart set on a 170degree thermostat, you can simply grab a 170 T-Stat for a small block Chevy & trim the OD using tin snips so it fits the Buicks smaller thermostat housing opening.
However, you may want to have your fan on & off points adjusted in your chip.
However, you may want to have your fan on & off points adjusted in your chip.
Turbo6Smackdown
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That's the opening temp. Depending on the cooling system components and their condition, is how hot the car's going to actually run. Normally, believe it or not, both my cars ran right around 7 degress above opening temps on 70 degree days. So 167 typically. First check to see what you're running at now, and note how many degrees above opening temps. If you want to run say 180 all day, then I bet you're going to need a 160 t stat, unless your cooling system is in a really efficient state of repair. If you run a 170, you're going to run about 190 throughout the day I'm betting.
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