160# inj failure[s]....

[Chuck Leeper]

In the FWIW dept:
I recently commented on a set of Bosch 160's [0280 150 846]I flow tested, that leaked at the body/top crimp.[6 of the 8]. This same racer got another set, put them in, and WALA, 4 of the 8 leaked at first prime. [AIRC, I had flowed these, and condemned them, some 2 yrs ago.] This recent set, is at least 3 sets I've found, doing this.
He thot he had o'ring failure. Nope.
A SWAG as to what's going on:
I cut one of his leakers open on the lathe. I found no seal device between the metal body and the plastic top, other than the crimp.
Possible causes??
**High operating pressures, combined with pressure spikes, for literally millions of "hits", is stretching the metal case. [Some of the alky racers are running 70+psi base pressures, + >30psi boost]
** Millions of heat/cool cycles cause expansion differentials between the plastic and the metal.

I did not heat the injs when I did the tests, so I haven't confirmed the heat idea. However, I did put 1 in the vise, and could wiggle the body by hand. I gripped the body w/ a pipe wrench, and it freely rotated...
Certainly not ISO 2012 tests, but close!!
I may put the remaining injs in the bench, heat them w/ a heat gun, and see what happens.

 

[Rafs-T-Type]

Yikes

I have to ask, what would happen if you installed them? Would they spray gas everywhere?

 

[87chrisss]

GOOD INFO.

 

[lazaris]

Thats great observation there Chuck!!!

 

[turbobitt]

In the FWIW dept:
I recently commented on a set of Bosch 160's [0280 150 846]I flow tested, that leaked at the body/top crimp.[6 of the 8]. This same racer got another set, put them in, and WALA, 4 of the 8 leaked at first prime. [AIRC, I had flowed these, and condemned them, some 2 yrs ago.] This recent set, is at least 3 sets I've found, doing this.
He thot he had o'ring failure. Nope.
A SWAG as to what's going on:
I cut one of his leakers open on the lathe. I found no seal device between the metal body and the plastic top, other than the crimp.
Possible causes??
**High operating pressures, combined with pressure spikes, for literally millions of "hits", is stretching the metal case. [Some of the alky racers are running 70+psi base pressures, + >30psi boost]
** Millions of heat/cool cycles cause expansion differentials between the plastic and the metal.

I did not heat the injs when I did the tests, so I haven't confirmed the heat idea. However, I did put 1 in the vise, and could wiggle the body by hand. I gripped the body w/ a pipe wrench, and it freely rotated...
Certainly not ISO 2012 tests, but close!!
I may put the remaining injs in the bench, heat them w/ a heat gun, and see what happens.

Is it possible that it is a compatability issue with the fuel used, such as Q16 or alcohol ?

Allan G

 

[Phoneguy]

Thanks for the info Chuck !!

Bryan

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Yikes

I have to ask, what would happen if you installed them? Would they spray gas everywhere?

Yep. My testing shows that happening. right in my kisser!
The customer saw the same with the second set he installed. [First key on to check for leaks].

 

[Rafs-T-Type]

My god, they need to get there stuff together before they start burning their customers cars down to the ground

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Is it possible that it is a compatability issue with the fuel used, such as Q16 or alcohol ?

Allan G

Allan,
AIRC, the first set I found leaking, was run w/ Q16. Brad Brand and I were doing the tests, and wondered if that was the cause.. At the time, we had no more sets to compare to.
Since then, the 2 additional sets I've been involved with, were reportedly run w/ C16.
One of the problems with defining the yea/nay on the Q16 is, the 3 sets I've found, are all running with several yrs of use behind them. Their history is not traceable...[Multiple owners].
If I were to buy a set of 160's, I think I'd look at the new, 1 pc Bosch, hi imp units.... No point in "tempting fate".

 

[Chuck Leeper]

My god, they need to get there stuff together before they start burning their customers cars down to the ground

There's a new 160 Bosch available.

 

[turbobitt]

Allan,
AIRC, the first set I found leaking, was run w/ Q16. Brad Brand and I were doing the tests, and wondered if that was the cause.. At the time, we had no more sets to compare to.
Since then, the 2 additional sets I've been involved with, were reportedly run w/ C16.
One of the problems with defining the yea/nay on the Q16 is, the 3 sets I've found, are all running with several yrs of use behind them. Their history is not traceable...[Multiple owners].
If I were to buy a set of 160's, I think I'd look at the new, 1 pc Bosch, hi imp units.... No point in "tempting fate".

I'm currenty using a set, not sure if it is the same P/N. No leaking so far but I am concerned if I start to introduce Q16. I've used Sunoco Optima and mostly regular pump gas.

Allan G.

 

[STP]

Chuck, odd you bring this up...I've been on the fence on buying a set of 160's for Lee's old blue T and switching it over to E85 for a couple months now. Can you explain why it would be beneficial to go high imp over low or vice versa?? What (little) research I have done said that the larger high imp injectors had difficulty operating at low pulse widths...If I'm remembering that correctly, (not likely). May be way off...What's the scoop??? School is in session...

 

[turboclam]

Supposively there are fakes out there, possibility?

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Chuck, odd you bring this up...I've been on the fence on buying a set of 160's for Lee's old blue T and switching it over to E85 for a couple months now. Can you explain why it would be beneficial to go high imp over low or vice versa?? What (little) research I have done said that the larger high imp injectors had difficulty operating at low pulse widths...If I'm remembering that correctly, (not likely). May be way off...What's the scoop??? School is in session...

Concerning the low PW issues, I've no personal experience with the new Bosch units.
I think the reasoning behind the hi imp, is to avoid problems with PCM drivers. [The LS engine PCM's are also subject to that issue.]

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Supposively there are fakes out there, possibility?

U referring to the older design? If so, all the failures have been on units several yrs old...As in 5 or more.

 

[STP]

Concerning the low PW issues, I've no personal experience with the new Bosch units.
I think the reasoning behind the hi imp, is to avoid problems with PCM drivers. [The LS engine PCM's are also subject to that issue.]

Ahh, I didn't consider the fact that some run 160's on stock PCMs..You know of anyone running the new Bosch??

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Ahh, I didn't consider the fact that some run 160's on stock PCMs..You know of anyone running the new Bosch??

No. I made the suggestion to the customer w/ 2 sets of the old units. He's racing this weekend. I'll probably hear from him next week.