1985 help

[Ridesrodsandribs]

First off I want to say that I've been creeping the forum for 3 months and if it wasn't for the extremely smart people on here I'd be in big trouble. I bought my 85 GN about 3 months ago with 116000 on the body and around 8000 on the rebuilt engine tranny and upgraded rear (3.73:1 posi). It had been sitting in a shop since 2003 with the turbo off. I wish i had more info on what has been done to the motor but the guy i bought it from couldnt find the build sheet. He did remember that It has been bored 30 over and had some head/valve upgrades and intake had been ported and polished. It has new headers that look to be ceramic coated and it has an intercooler with an electric fan from a Geo mounted to it. It has a Poston Even fire cam with intake lift of 478 and duration of 266 and exhaust lift of 456 and duration of 258. He also put a ignition coil from an 87 on it. It has a brand new Garrett Turbo that I had to put on after I got it. It was a bitch getting a new turbo oil return line for it that would reach the hole in the intake because the turbo is in a different location due to the intercooler addition. I finally got it all put together last week and I think I finally got all the vacuum lines right a couple of days ago (thanks to this forum). It has the setup for a 7 stage Ultra Chip that was supposed to have came with it but after getting it home I couldn't find the chip anywhere. Old owner can't find the chip either and has been a jerk about it and now won't respond to me at all. It has had the AC, cruise and catalytic converter removed. He gave me a cam sensor tool and I've followed the instructions on it perfectly. I have it running fairly smooth but there is still a little miss and every now and then it pops through the intake. It will barely idle roughly for about 30 sec then dies (may have a lot to do with the cam). Also, there is a vacuum port on the TB above the IAC that I cannot figure out where it ties in. It runs good fuel pressure at 40 lbs and doesn't smell rich or smoke. If anything, it may be lean. When I drive it it isn't able to burn out even with 215/65's but it does accelerate pretty strong in upper RPMs. I have several potential buyers for what I'm asking but I don't want then to be scared off with the way it's running now even though a real motor head would know that it's nothing major. I cannot afford the time or money to get a new chip right now. I'm asking $12500 for her and compared to what I'm seeing on the market it's a fair price in her condition and her mods.

My questions are:

1. Where does the port above the IAC tie into?
2. If my vacuum lines are right what could be causing the miss and pop and also low power at low RPM.
3. Will this thing ever run right with all these mods without a new chip?


Here is a picture of the port I'm talking about.

 

[Ridesrodsandribs]

Okay..I'm desperate because I probably have a buyer coming tomorrow for this car I'm going to raise the reward for help. Whoever can answer my questions and the results are a properly running GN will receive a crisp $100 bill in the mail if their feedback. Thank you!

 

[Shawn N]

Hate to break it to you but a 84/85 GN is worth about $7500 tops in excellent condition. $12,500 would buy a pretty nice 86/87 GN.

 

[Ridesrodsandribs]

Shawn,

Since your not interested in helping but would rather insult my intelligence Lets look at your logic in terms of normal classic cars. Most of the cars i deal with have been from 55-70

1. I buy and sell classic cars for a living. Do you? I dug for this car for months at the price I paid 2. the 3 people vying for my car at 12500 have also done their homework and cant find a better GN for my price or they would have bought them. All of them are from other states so its bot like I'm the most convenient GN. All of them contacted me because they wanted a GN specifically. They also though I was higher than others and after they shooed around they came back like I knew they would 3. Find me any GN anywhere in as good of shape anywhere for even $10,000 and post it here and I'll buy it next week and pay you a finders fee. None of them will have the modifications this one has and a fresh engine, trans and rear. 3. An 86 and especially an 87 are not as rare as an 85. The performance differences between an 87 are not that hard to replicate while essentially staying #'s matching (that's important in classic car sales weather you realize it or not) and especially an 86. Show me on any classic car of your choice where rarer doesn't equal more value. Maybe today the GN doesn't totally fit into "classic" but it won't be long before it does. Ask yourself if every year that passes are these cars going up in value or going down? Yes I can find tons of ratty 87's for $7500 but after I'd spend $5000 on paint and interior I still wouldn't have an original #'s matching GN with the mods this has. I'd also smoke that pretty bone stock 87 when I get this one lined out.

Bottom line is that several classic car folks who have been shopping cannot find a better deal than what I'm offering or they would have taken it. Their plan is to fulfill their GN dreams specifically and they think the value is good enough so they want it. If you want to take a step up as a collector and go black and buy black for $7500 you'll be well over $12500 when it's all said and done to have the same package that I'm selling. If not then you've found yourself a steal and more power to you but in the mean time I'm asking a tech question and not needing a lesson on valuing a border line classic that encompasses a whole decade. Thanks though!

 

[notacarlo]

I don't know a whole lot about hot air cars, but are you sure that's a vacuum port? Reason I ask is the 86/87 runs coolant through the throttlebody. I'm sure you have tested it and vacuum is the case. Just asking.

Did the car also get an 86/87 ecm? The car needs to be tuned to the mods.

Check all vacuum lines for dry rot and firm connection. Make sure the intake tract where the mass air flow sensor lives is nor compromised. Any unmetered air will cause issues.

12500 for an 85 without ac or cruise in any condition is pushing the envelope regardless of your clear experience buying and selling classic cars. No info on the engine build affects sale. Incorrect rear ring affects sale. 373 is not an upgrade.

No one is trying to insult you. We filter through these adds for everyone's benefit.

Good luck with the sale.


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[Bryan C.]

That's a coolant line.

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[notacarlo]

So the hot airs did the tb line as well?

$100 please ..

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[Shawn N]

Plain fact dude 84/85 do not sell for $12,500. I have been in these cars for 16 years and have yet to see a hot air sell for 9K. Yes they rare but there is very little demand for them which is why they sell for half of 86/87 cars bring. Do fully expect someone to pay that money for a car that does not run right and has parts from a GEO Storm.

 

[87GNSteve]

The 1986 Pontiac Grand Prix 2+2 is "rare"....

 

[Ridesrodsandribs]

First off Id like to apologize to Shawn. I'm a single dad of 3 and I'm in dire need of getting this car sold or we are all 4 in big trouble so the stress is getting to me. I'll apologize like a man in person if I had his #. Also, I never said I'm going to get $12500 for it. That's what I'm asking. People usually try to negotiate and if I start at the # I'm trying to get and don't budge then I won't get it sold because buyers want to win. Can we please move past that and talk about tech? I'm not trying to sell my car to anyone on here. This is a tech board right?

I've been reading tons of post on here and I think my issue is a cam sensor that was installed 1 tooth off from reading other posts. Going to give it a shot in a few minutes. I'd like to start fresh and make sure I get it right. I have it at TDC on #1. I read where the oil pump shaft slot should be at 12 o'clock or 6 however you want to look at it and the window on the sensor itself needs to be facing the passenger side. Is this the correct info? I have a casper tool with the LED to make sure i have it adjusted correctly. Please guys I really need the help. Thank you!

 

[notacarlo]

The cam sensor is a hall effect mechanism. There is a window that picks up the signal for injector timing. You can literally hand turn it until the car starts. If its waaay off the car won't fire.
It actually has nothing to do with mechanical engine timing.
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[notacarlo]

The tps sensor could be out of range as well. Make sure you see .42-43v at closed throttle. 4.5+ at wot. The car does not need to be running to test it.

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[keith theriot]

If it stumbles and then fires right back up I would say the you have injector issues, have they been cleaned after being sat-up for a long period.

 

[Ridesrodsandribs]

The tps sensor could be out of range as well. Make sure you see .42-43v at closed throttle. 4.5+ at wot. The car does not need to be running to test it.

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Thank you for your feedback. Would the TPS cause a pop through the intake and a miss though? I could see it causing me low power. I'll check it after I get the cam sensor put back.

 

[Ridesrodsandribs]

If it stumbles and then fires right back up I would say the you have injector issues, have they been cleaned after being sat-up for a long period.

No injectors have crossed my mind a time or two especially since the fuel filter was pretty dirty when I changed it. I dropped the tank too.

 

[notacarlo]

The tps can cause all kinds of issues. They can flatspot over time leaving a dead area in the sweep. Your rpm, load, boost are all telling the ecu one thing and the throttle voltage isn't responding as it should.

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[87GNSteve]

What is the story on the MAF sensor?

 

[Ridesrodsandribs]

I have been trying to find testing posts on here for a few days and see what the TPS readouts should be but what 2 out of the 3 contacts do I test? Are there any guides to testing TPS and MAF that break it down for a novice?

 

[Ridesrodsandribs]

I have been trying to find testing posts on here for a few days and see what the TPS readouts should be but what 2 out of the 3 contacts do I test? Are there any guides to testing TPS and MAF that break it down for a novice?

Found a scanner to borrow. In get .045 at no throttle and 3.75 at WOT. MAS is showing 12g at idle and O2 shows 0 volts. I'm just now getting to know this scanner but I thought I'd pass that on.

 

[notacarlo]

wot should be 4.5+
02 should be jumping around after the car warms up. Between .010 and 800 MV
If you shut the car down and do a hot restart the 02 will be locked for a minute or two, then start jumping around again. The crosscounts for 02 is the value associated with how many times the sensor is referenced. If that is a low number or zero, then your 02 is likely shot.

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