2-3 Flair developing

[Morkai]

What would be some likely causes for the 2-3 shift starting to flair or take too long after 3000miles on the tranny? I tried to do everything possible to prevent it, I used alto red clutches in the direct and set the clearance to .040"

Second gear has eased off, but still quite firm enough to bark the tires. 4th is almost too firm at times. I have been getting some cold 2nd gear starts in the morning, only about a mile from the house, after that it's fine.

Are the directs getting smoked? Is it possible I get the clearance too tight? Or could the problem lie in the VB, or pressures, the pump isn't doing as good as I had hoped, I can post pressures again, but it ranges from about 95-190 in gear min/max tv.

Also, the band is alto wide, and the VB has the newer style transgo full race repro kit in it.

 

[Vendor Defendor]

my 2-3 flair was caused by blown seals in the direct and foward clutches...

 

[Morkai]

Seals

Well, they're all new, unless I cut one. Seems like the pressure checks were good, and it worked good for a few thousand miles.

 

[chris718]

i hate to sound like a broken record here but wer never have a 2/3 flair in our 2004rs with our dual feed technology.the clutches are slipping.period.this is the best shift into hi gear youve ever felt ,because its not slipping and is instantaniouis without the bang bumping found elsewhere which eventually eats up the hi gear frictions anyhow.60 thousandths at least in the hi drum .

 

[ITSAV6]

tranny

Eric,
Give me a call sat after lunch. I gotta work fri night but am off the weekend. I wanna try my red 93 in my car.

 

[Morkai]

mainline pressures

Here were my pressure readings from before, I'll try go get some road test readings tomorrow.

Idle Idle(min tv) 1500(max tv)
P 115 110 210
R 110 100 175
N 125 120 190
4 110 95 190
3 95 90 185
2 95 90 180
1 85 80 170

 

[chris718]

no boost oil in r,l1/l2

 

[Morkai]

Chris

Could you elaborate? Are you saying it sounds like a boost valve problem?

 

[chris718]

the intermediate boost valve is not responding to boost oil signal when it is sent to the valve.the valve could be in upside down also.check to make sure the seperator plater and gaskets are lined up properly but i feel the pump is where the problem is particularly the pressure regulation line up.if its flairing ,the clutches are going to bed especially if you hit it hard while flairing.

 

[WE4]

OR....

The transfer tube in the VB popped out or is leaking severly or the Int boost valve in pump is stuck or not functioning.

Bruce
WE4
PTS XTREME

 

[Morkai]

Uh oh!

Well, I just did a running pressure test, and now I'm really disturbed. Before it really got hot it picked up and idled about 120 and into Rev about 180 or so. Then and when I was backing out of the shop, I noticed something I've never seen before, it would go upto about 180psi in Rev and then it started falling to 120, and kinda boucing back and forth about 120-180 almost like it wasn't getting good pick up on the fluid.

It seemed to stop that after I got in in Drive and out onto the road, but normal driving pressure was only 120-150, usually closer to 120. Even when I went WOT I don't think I saw it go over 130-140. It held a pretty even pressure around 130ish from part to full throttle. I think I saw it flash over 150 when I would pat the gas lightly. Also, when I got back, and it was good and warm, it was only trying to idle around 70-80psi.

Is my pump going out? This is worse than my previous reading, although it was only static.

The transfer tube is possible, I'll check that when I get the cover off, I guess it's also possible that I was out of it and put the boost valves in wrong, but I didn't think so. Looks like I'll be under the car tonight. Bah

 

[Morkai]

The pan is down..

Nothing really ominous yet, fluid looked pretty clean to me, it's dark, but not bad, some grey deposits, but that's more than likely the moly assembly lube I used during the build.

Everything looks in place so far, the transfer tube is in, although it might be a tiny bit loose on the front side, is there a way to secure it better, or should I change the tube?

 

[Morkai]

PR assembly

Ok, got just took em out. I'm pretty sure they're in right, the rev valve bushing goes in with the narrow opening towards the main boost valve right? However, the rev boost valve may have been sticking, I noticed it is rough and not sliding through the bushing smoothly. When I push it in to where the tip of the valve is just through the end of the bushing and twist it, I can feel resistance, it's rough. Could this be my problem?

Next question, should I try to polish the .400 valve, or just go back in with the only other rev valve I have, the .300 that was in it previously??

 

[chris718]

where in the world did you get a .400 int/rev boost valve from band m? and why would you use that?that size will peg mainline as soon as you load the plunger.we can control 700 horsepower with 230 psi mainline,and 260in the manual ranges hot.are you trying to crack the pump rotor?

 

[Morkai]

Are we talking about the same valve?

This is a PTS PR setup. The TV boost valve is .500 and the valve above that one is .400 right? It mics to .400" on the small end.

 

[jakeshoe]

PTS PR kit has a .570 boost valve and a .400 rev/int valve...

This is gonna get interesting...

 

[Morkai]

haha...everything I DO gets interesting...

This is the PTS PR kit, I guess the fact that "pts .400" is inscribed on the side of the rev boost valve helps. It also has the .500 on the tv boost valve. This is not their latest .570 kit, it's the older version.

Well, I polished the rev boost valve with 2000 grit sandpaper and it slides a lot smoother, hopefully not too loose, I don't think so. I cleaned it all good and shoved it back into the pump, with the help of a screwdriver, magnet, brass drift, and snap ring pliers...and luck. My hair is turning red...

Well see if this makes any difference soon.

 

[ITSAV6]

as the tranny turns

Late nights under the Buick,your wife is gonna get jealous!

 

[chris718]

i guess bruce has an explanation for that .i certainly dont.i dont think its necessary but in his transmission it must have some validity.bruce,why so much lo/2nd pressure?this could be why the 4340 rotor was implemented?we never see rotor breakage .i am puzzled.no magic here,just stock delco pump rotors and good torque convertor alignment.now watch one of my best customers break a pump rotor.

 

[Morkai]

What next?

Well, I had to call it quits last night after getting the fluid in, because now the #%)* car won't start! I told ya everything I do gets interesting...

Didn't appear to be getting fire, watch my ignition module be dead, who wants to take bets?