2017 TSO Rules Discussion

[tom robison]

These are changes to existing rules I would like to see If all rules thrown out and starting over are shot down.
Remove all weight penalties and weight breaks. 3000lbs is what you weigh.
Allow removable front ends, steel, fiberglass or carbon fiber.
Any exhaust exit with no muffler.

 

[HighPSI]

#2 is your proposal.

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[tom robison]

Ok

 

[gnxtc2]

So far I have:

3. Any downpipe/exhaust allowed, exiting anywhere.

Include must exit within 1" of body and NO bullhorns.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[johnplogii]

Include must exit within 1" of body and NO bullhorns.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

Please make this a separate suggestion, no need to put restrictions on my proposal that was intended to remove all exhaust restrictions.

 

[III'S 87 GN]

With the exception of maybe a few of the top TSO cars most are not legal to run the speeds that we are running. Is it going to take somebody getting hurt before the class pays more attention to safety than stupid proposals !


Cal,
why go back 2 races?

Bowling Green had 2 qualifying passes this year not really a rain out.


The top TSO cars are not street cars !

Jason, you are a TSM car at best that is just a class filler for a can of VP fuel so this proposal alone is the reason why as Racers we should only be allowed to make a proposal and the RRA of TSO should decide on the good for the class or not.



My proposals


#1 Cal or the RRA should be the only one that can change rules to better the class

(Racers should make proposals but not be allowed a vote on a rule change)


#2 class fillers should not be allowed to vote


#3 TSO should follow the rules of a nationally accepted class like X275

(Example adjust base weight only and have adds for things like turbo size, fuel and so on)


#4 any fuel other than Race gas (C16,Q16)should have a weight penalty of 100 or 200.

(example E85,E98 mix or m1 gets the penalty)

 

[HighPSI]

Don, these are some valid points I'll address shortly.

One thing I do want mention:
There will not be any more voting on a car being allowed to race. IF YOU KNOW YOU'RE NOT LEGAL FOR THE CLASS, DON'T BOTHER COMING TO PEIR TECH!

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[baadgn]

I would like to propose removing the 50# weight penalty for a liquid IC

 

[HighPSI]

With the exception of maybe a few of the top TSO cars most are not legal to run the speeds that we are running. Is it going to take somebody getting hurt before the class pays more attention to safety than stupid proposals !

I agree with you on the importance, but believe safety is a track responsibility. I would be concerned if we start dictating it, we could become liable.

Cal,
why go back 2 races?

Bowling Green had 2 qualifying passes this year not really a rain out.

I agree with you and will verify who (if anyone) this disqualifies. We need to also include anyone who ran at the tb.com TSO race.

The top TSO cars are not street cars !

Jason, you are a TSM car at best that is just a class filler for a can of VP fuel so this proposal alone is the reason why as Racers we should only be allowed to make a proposal and the RRA of TSO should decide on the good for the class or not.

It is going to be a judgemental call as to who is a "seat filler" and who's not. We can't really dictate it based solely on performance, since this year several "heavy hitters" didn't qualify well. Perhaps it would be best to get with the other RRA's and allow a racer to only vote in one class?

My proposals


#1 Cal or the RRA should be the only one that can change rules to better the class

(Racers should make proposals but not be allowed a vote on a rule change)


#2 class fillers should not be allowed to vote


#3 TSO should follow the rules of a nationally accepted class like X275

(Example adjust base weight only and have adds for things like turbo size, fuel and so on)


#4 any fuel other than Race gas (C16,Q16)should have a weight penalty of 100 or 200.

(example E85,E98 mix or m1 gets the penalty)

I want to encourage everyone to discuss ALL of the proposals (not just Don's) and perhaps make the ballot a little smaller.

 

[HighPSI]

(snip)
My proposals


#1 Cal or the RRA should be the only one that can change rules to better the class

(Racers should make proposals but not be allowed a vote on a rule change)

Since you posted this, I would like to state my OPINIONS of what I would do with the rules BASED ON THE CURRENT SUGGESTIONS, if it was solely up to me. I know I'm going to regret this, but hoping it will open things up to discussion from others.

Proposal #1) Leave the radiator rule alone. I understand Jason's point, but have always had the attitude that once something is allowed, it is really difficult to take away. Even more so, if it effects car count.

Proposal #2) I would not throw out all the rules to get things in line with Ultra street, etc.. I don't see a bunch of Ultra cars trying to get in TSO. If things change, then we'll address it. Besides the 88 turbo isn't Ultra legal

Proposal #3) I would allow any downpipe/exhaust provided it exits under the car or out the fender within 1" of body

Proposal #4) Don't allow wheelie bars in the class

Proposal #5) I can't see any way of enforcing mixing of fuel, since many racers bring there own fuel. I am REALLY against allowing M1 (or possibly E98) due to it's many advantages.

Proposal #6) Keep things 1/8th mile but reintroduce a minimum qualifying time of 6.30. When we were 1/4 mile it was 9.90.

Don Proposal #1) I am concerned if I dictated things, it could be accused of playing sides or being biased, which could in turn effect car count. We all have different philosophies of where the class should be

Don Proposal #2) I would allow a racer to only vote on the rules for the slowest class they qualified for

Don Proposal #3) see proposal #2 above about Ultra Street

Don Proposal #4) this shows some merit

Tony Proposal) I would leave the liquid intercooler penalty

 

[sackracing]

I agree with the one class vote idea. I have always believed that actual TSM racers should be dictating rules in that class, not a faster class.


Sent from my iphone while taking a dump

 

[gnxtc2]

Since you posted this, I would like to state my OPINIONS of what I would do with the rules BASED ON THE CURRENT SUGGESTIONS, if it was solely up to me. I know I'm going to regret this, but hoping it will open things up to discussion from others.

It's a discussion

Proposal #1) Leave the radiator rule alone. I understand Jason's point, but have always had the attitude that once something is allowed, it is really difficult to take away. Even more so, if it effects car count.

I agree. Due to the size and placement of the 88, some already have moved the rad to make room

Proposal #2) I would not throw out all the rules to get things in line with Ultra street, etc.. I don't see a bunch of Ultra cars trying to get in TSO. If things change, then we'll address it. Besides the 88 turbo isn't Ultra legal

True

Proposal #3) I would allow any downpipe/exhaust provided it exits under the car or out the fender within 1" of body

Add no bullhorns.....Ultra/Ultimate Street rule

Proposal #4) Don't allow wheelie bars in the class

Ultra/Ultimate rule

Proposal #5) I can't see any way of enforcing mixing of fuel, since many racers bring there own fuel. I am REALLY against allowing M1 (or possibly E98) due to it's many advantages.

If we're going to follow a national race class rules, why not allow M1/E98?

Proposal #6) Keep things 1/8th mile but reintroduce a minimum qualifying time of 6.30. When we were 1/4 mile it was 9.90.

Good

Don Proposal #1) I am concerned if I dictated things, it could be accused of playing sides or being biased, which could in turn effect car count. We all have different philosophies of where the class should be

We discus the rule(s) and you amend/leave the rule.

Don Proposal #2 "class fillers should not be allowed to vote") I would allow a racer to only vote on the rules for the slowest class they qualified for

Cars that regularly race or are TSO cars should only be allowed to vote. The past few years, THS cars jumped into TSO just for a 5 gallong jug of fuel which is no problem but they should have no voting rights.

Don Proposal #3 "TSO should follow the rules of a nationally accepted class like X275") see proposal #2 above about Ultra Street

Follow Ultimate Street. I think Ultra is now called Ultimate Street. The rules are very close to Ultimate with the exception of the turbo (max 80 with a cast wheel), tires (no Pro Radial tire) and no outside air source to turbo.

Don Proposal #4 "any fuel other than Race gas (C16,Q16)should have a weight penalty of 100 or 200.") this shows some merit

Remove all fuel penalties. The cars need to meet a weight requirement anyway.

Tony Proposal) I would leave the liquid intercooler penalty

Or remove penalty with the addition of M1/E98

One thing I do want mention:
There will not be any more voting on a car being allowed to race. IF YOU KNOW YOU'RE NOT LEGAL FOR THE CLASS, DON'T BOTHER COMING TO PEIR TECH!

This ^^^^^^^^.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[DFISCUS]

I don't get on the board very often so I will keep this short. Keep the rules the way they are also I say the rra should be the dictator over the class. I like having a say but racers will usually vote for what's best for themselves and not what's best for the class. Cal knows what the intent of this class is, I'm sure he will do a good job of deciding what's rite. Ultra street and x275 racers don't make the rules John Sears does. It seems it work for those guys.

 

[Final Answer]

I don't get on the board very often so I will keep this short. Keep the rules the way they are also I say the rra should be the dictator over the class. I like having a say but racers will usually vote for what's best for themselves and not what's best for the class. Cal knows what the intent of this class is, I'm sure he will do a good job of deciding what's rite. Ultra street and x275 racers don't make the rules John Sears does. It seems it work for those guys.

I agree with Fiscus post leave the rules as they are. Let the RRA decide what changes are needed for the class.
As it is now a group of racers could vote to add 300 lbs to stage headed cars and as long as it passed nothing could be done of course I agree with this (lol). IMHO why would you want to run v6 bucks against v8 with nitros the weight break is only 200lbs with a 76mm turbo no v6 car has ever won a major race example Lights out Ga. or Yellowbullet. Put a v8 in your car you can still run a class at BG. My .02 cents worth Gary Harmon

 

[baadgn]

I don't get on the board very often so I will keep this short. Keep the rules the way they are also I say the rra should be the dictator over the class. I like having a say but racers will usually vote for what's best for themselves and not what's best for the class. Cal knows what the intent of this class is, I'm sure he will do a good job of deciding what's rite. Ultra street and x275 racers don't make the rules John Sears does. It seems it work for those guys.

Well good thing you got on to put your input in.....

 

[baadgn]

I agree with Fiscus post leave the rules as they are. Let the RRA decide what changes are needed for the class.
As it is now a group of racers could vote to add 300 lbs to stage headed cars and as long as it passed nothing could be done of course I agree with this (lol). IMHO why would you want to run v6 bucks against v8 with nitros the weight break is only 200lbs with a 76mm turbo no v6 car has ever won a major race example Lights out Ga. or Yellowbullet. Put a v8 in your car you can still run a class at BG. My .02 cents worth Gary Harmon

The only reason, I can think that somebody would want to run a v6 with a weight break against a v8 would be............To class race their car more than once a year

 

[HighPSI]

Last chance to post before voting

 

[DFISCUS]

No changes . If not then I vote to let cal make the rules.

 

[HighPSI]

Since so many have publicly and privately voiced that I should take control of the rule changes and decide what I think is best for the class, I am going to put this up to vote first. If it gets voted down, I'll post another ballot with all the proposals. Below is what I think is the eligible voter list. Please text me at 321-863-2303 or PM me with your vote on THIS ITEM ONLY.

*Richie Balcom
*Jason Cramer
Don Cruz
*David Day
*Tom Dykeman
*Paul Dubois
*Dave England
*Manny Espino
*Dave Fiscus
*Gary Harmon
*John Plog
Martin Riendeau
*Tom Robison
*Brad Tennyson
*Billy T

* means they voted
If you don't see your name and feel you should get a vote please contact me

 

[HighPSI]

Fortunately, I had everyone's cell number. You should have gotten a text