You can type here any text you want

3 to 4 bolt adapter... God, bad, or just ugly?

Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!

brian

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2001
Messages
1,203
I just picked up a car with a T-63-1 4 bolt turbo. It is on the stock exhaust header with the 4 bolt adapter bolted on the stock 3 bolt flange.
Did these work, or just kill the performance advantage of the 4 bolt turbo?:confused:

The car seems well sorted out, but if there is much lost with this adapter, or not taken advantage of, I just assume change it back to a 3 bolt.
At 18 psi on pump gas it pulls like mad in 3rd gear!!!

If this matters. It has a 40mm HKS gate, and the turbo has the OLD style -1 housing with the 3in inlet, and 2 1/2 outlet.

Thanks in advance...
Brian
 
Why mess with it if its working good?

Youd have to spend $$$ on exh housing and DP.

Id think even with the adaptor it still flows better than a 3 bolt!

Gotta love those 63-1's,they hit pretty hard!
 
The exhaust housing is an on center as well.:redface:

How would this work compared to the same turbo with a 63 PTE housing?

Thanks, Brian
 
I had a 4-bolt 63-1 like that on my Stage1 engine many years ago. I had ATR headers, modded for an HKS gate and the 3-4 bolt adapter. (easy mid 10's, daily driver)

This was before PTE came out with their turbines. I would bet that the PTE turbines are as good as that 4-bolt, but the external gate is miles ahead of a flapper.


Ain't broke = don't fix it.


Bob
 
I agree with what has been said, with one exception.
You mention that is has an On Center style T4 turbine housing. IMHO, that is the sorriest example of a turbine housing that you could possibly get. In some cases, the 3 bolt PTE housing will flow better than the On Center housing. If you take the turbo off and look into the inlet of the turbine housing, you will see just how bad a design it really is by not only how small the inlet necks down, but the very sharp 90* angle that the inlet wraps around the scroll of the housing. The On Center housings were designed for applications where installation of exhaust components were very tight, and was not designed for optimal flow. This is why you tend to see this type of housing installed inside very cramped engine bays, or on twin turbo applications where you can simply point the turbo straight on. Inlet towards the front of the car, downpipe straight out the back and on the centerline of the rotating assembly. The T4 Tangential style housings inlet is slightly off set and requires more room for installation.

As far as hp differences are concerned, it's really hard to say. Meaning what hp difference would you expect if going from a T4 On Center to a 3-bolt Buick setup, as it's not really comparing apples to apples. More like comparing a spoiled banana to an apple. :D I can tell you that in some applications, I got reports of gaining as much as 70 hp by simply changing from an On Center housing to a T4 Tangential housing. These were typically on high hp V8 applications where low back pressure and huge flow rates are critical.
If you were to switch from the On Center style housing over to a T4 Tangential style housing with a .68 A/R, you might see a very nice increase in power up stairs and not really loose too much on the bottom end. You would loose a lot of back pressure tho that's for sure.
Here are two pictures that show the two types of T4 housings.
The first one is a T-netics On Center T4.

t4oncenter_back_th_t.jpg


Notice how sharply the exhaust has to turn in order to wrap around the scroll of the turbine housing. The inlet hole that is created by this sudden 90* bend is really a small area. It's called On Center because the turbine housing discharge is on center with the turbine housing inlet hole.





This is a picture of a PTE TH5876A T4 Tangential style housing.

TH5876A.jpg


As you can see, the exhaust has more of a straight and smooth path to flow when wrapping around the scroll. This dramatically helps reduce back pressure vs the On Center style housing.

If it were me, and you wanted to make a change, I would either install a .63 THB3-76 turbine housing on it, or a TH6876A T4 Tangential turbine housing on it and go. The Buick 3-bolt housing won't hurt flow or spool up at all. The T4 Tangential might require slightly more stall, but it will free up some hp in the upper rpm range.
Hope some of this helps and sorry so long.

Patrick
 
Thanks guys. And, a special thanks to Patrick for the excellent tech!:cool:

Much of the info I am looking for.

So... For a "moderate" Buick turbo car, approaching the or running into 10`s, I assume this is not a major obstruction?
I just wonder about the restriction (if any) of the 4 bolt adapter sandwiched on a stock 3 bolt header?

As my mentioned before, the turbo feels great up top, but does feel a bit "held back" on spoolup. I know the tune effects this, and converter, blah blah...

Brian
 
Never heard of any problems running the 3 to 4 bolt adaptor flange at the 400-650 hp range. You're basically going from a round hole to a rectangular hole and kicking the turbo up slightly higher than stock. This would however affect the downpipe placement if you tried to go back with a 3-bolt setup. I would bet that your test pipe would be too long, as the TH style downpipe would be lower in the car than your 4 bolt On Center setup is now.

Patrick
 
I agree on the on center 4 bolt housings flowing like crap. If you have a few extra $ go for the tangential housing (about $230) and modify the dp for the v-band setup (maybe another $250). When done you will have a lot more potential with the tangential. You have a wider variety of housings available too. The .58 will flow at least as well as a precision .63 3 bolt and the .69 will outdo the precision .85 3 bolt. I wouldnt worry too much about the adapter. It wont cause any more restriction than the headers its bolted to. 4 bolt headers would be ideal but you will get some of the gain with just the tangential housing.
 
Back
Top