87 Grey Turbo T - Austin, Texas

[SouthernCal GN]

I've owned a couple TR's so I ain't totally green.

Funny how Jud's buddies come to his defense so quickly. You think you might just be a little biased?

You're right though, I should have never relied on Jud's reputation. It just goes to show that even the most honest person can be swayed by money.

Not so much biased as observing the drama. Used to be in military law enforcement, and it was more often than not fact that, when beaking up a domestic dispute or a bar fight, the person bellowing loudest and with the most profanity was the one with the most to hide.

Now, I'm not insinuating that you're hiding anything. But it seems rather strange that you come out swinging, and Jud has been the calm one looking for solutions, rather than hiding behind the anonimity of the internet.

Again, not taking sides, just observing and reporting.

 

[UNDER-PRESSURE]

By the way, here is the other side. Taken with my camera and supplied to Scott before sale. This is all I have of the front frame.

Are you talking about the clean portion of the frame under the engine? It looks like the area has been cleaned where oil & crud collect, not repaired.

 

[LILOLV6]

Looking for solutions? Did I miss something? It's easy to be calm when the money is in your pocket.

I don't really expect anything to come of this. I'm stuck with the car as it is and Jud has his money. I just wanted everyone to know what a "stand up guy" Jud is.

Other than that, I'll continue on with my work on the car replacing the motor...and get a frame inspection, of course.

 

[LILOLV6]

Are you talking about the clean portion of the frame under the engine? It looks like the area has been cleaned where oil & crud collect, not repaired.

It's hard to see from that angle...and I understand what you are saying about it being cleaned. Obviously these cars were welded together by hand with different guys working on different parts of the car so there will be variability in the welds. Like I said earlier, the mechanic pointed it out to me(asked me to come back in the shop and have a look, said he shouldn't pass the car with the repair done to the frame) and I could see what he was referring to. I'll go get a frame shop to have a look at it and report back with the results.

 

[UNDER-PRESSURE]

It's hard to see from that angle...and I understand what you are saying about it being cleaned. Obviously these cars were welded together by hand with different guys working on different parts of the car so there will be variability in the welds. Like I said earlier, the mechanic pointed it out to me(asked me to come back in the shop and have a look, said he shouldn't pass the car with the repair done to the frame) and I could see what he was referring to. I'll go get a frame shop to have a look at it and report back with the results.

So the car DID pass inspection & you are able to register the car? If those are the welds & the area of the frame you are concerned about they look OK to me. The original GM welds are rude & crude on these cars & that crossmember looks original, just cleaned up. But it is hard to tell from only 1 photo. Are there any signs of the front frame rails being replaced, repaired or altered? Those are usually the first areas to be affected during a collision & not the area you are concerned about.

 

[jstahl]

You know, I just realized something. In all the conversations you and I had since you were at the supposed mechanic shop, which was what.... almost 6 weeks ago???? This is the first time you have brought up anything about the frame. I would think that would be a major show stopper! How could you forget that one???

You just supplied a picture and I supplied an even better picture, according to you. I am waiting for you to point out the supposed area of concern, so individulas with an identical car can chime in and save you some inspection $$$.

 

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

The only thing that i see is the left lower control arm is rusty compared to the rest of the frame.

Where exactly is the non factory welding done to the x member?

The outer frame rail welds are factory from what i can see, i dont know if that is the area that has this issue.

BW

 

[jstahl]

Here let me help. Is the highlighted area that of concern? If so, that is a pressure washed area. Not a repair. I pressure wahed the engine bay before installation of the motor. Both from above and below.

 

[UNDER-PRESSURE]

That's what it looked like to me.

 

[tb3]

This story is a good reminder of why I never buy cars sight unseen, no matter how good the deal seems to be. I've traveled hundreds of miles on three different occassions only to come home without the car because I didn't feel it was as described.

Amen to this! I've been in the same boat.

I'm not a friend of jstahl, never heard of him. But from what I can tell so far in those pics, nothing seems amiss with the frame. I too, have seen sloppy frame welds and clean frame welds from the factory with these g-body frames.
And also, fwiw....If I where to take my 86 t to a mechanic right now. He would no doubt be scratching his head in confusion once it got up on the lift. Any place I've worked on underneath the car, I wipe, clean, paint, replace hardware, etc... while other places are nasty, rusty, greasy... its a daily driver, and I do very good and through preventive maintance.

Replacing frame sections however, is really not that hard if a person knows what their doing, and have the proper tools. And finding someone to do a good safe proper frame repair, whether legal or illegal, I doubt would be that hard no matter what state your in. I would bet its being done more now than ever before with these older muscle cars being how the market has went nuts.
Hope this works out,... somehow
I'm outta here

 

[SouthernCal GN]

You think it wouldn't be that hard to break out the jackstands and get a little access to take proper pics.....

 

[chopped39]

He is not kidding. As long as a shop knows what they are doing. replacing a frame rail is no big deal as long as its done right. you want to make sure idler arm and pitman arm are level across. are all the body lines good? these cars are junk right from the start. I wish i took pics of my frame before I ground and welded where the machines didnt weld. the engine .thats another thing. sight un seen?never! I would not worry about the frame as much as i would the engine. it sucks to say but live and learn and get that car going. I know its easy for someone that isnt out the money to say. but i have been burned before. from the pics it looks pretty nice. once its running get it on an alignment machine and post specs so you can put an end to this. best of luck to both of you

 

[ChrisCairns]

Not trying to muddy the waters....

What makes you think your mechanic/inspector KNOWS what G-body frames look like? He could be mistaken. Your idea of taking it to a frame shop is a good idea.

I went out and took some pics of a frame from an 82 Regal. I bought the car, threw the body away and kept the frame...it's been sitting in my field for 5 years so look past the rust. I took the pics to show you factory welds.

 

[notacarlo]

Not trying to muddy the waters....

What makes you think your mechanic/inspector KNOWS what G-body frames look like? He could be mistaken. Your idea of taking it to a frame shop is a good idea.

I went out and took some pics of a frame from an 82 Regal. I bought the car, threw the body away and kept the frame...it's been sitting in my field for 5 years so look past the rust. I took the pics to show you factory welds.

That should shut you up.

I feel dumber having read your posts on this thread (lilolv6).

If you have had "a couple" of TR's you may have noted (like I did upon climbing under these things a hundred times) that the frame welds look like a drunk baby did'em.

I don't wish ill of you, but you need to have someone else look at/ purchase cars for you.


Seacrest out!

 

[LILOLV6]

You know, I just realized something. In all the conversations you and I had since you were at the supposed mechanic shop, which was what.... almost 6 weeks ago???? This is the first time you have brought up anything about the frame. I would think that would be a major show stopper! How could you forget that one???

You just supplied a picture and I supplied an even better picture, according to you. I am waiting for you to point out the supposed area of concern, so individulas with an identical car can chime in and save you some inspection $$$.

Firstly, Jud, the mechanic that I saw 6 weeks ago was in Washington when the car developed a knock 100 miles after picking it up...not the mechanic here in Edmonton who had to do an out of province inspection so I can register the car. Two diffeent guys in two different places in two different countries. The mechanic in Washington never looked under the car. He didn't have to. The knock was easily heard from 6 feet away from the car. The second mechanic here in Edmonton had the car on the lift to check the car out to meet provincial standards and told me he shouldn't pass the car because he should send me to a frame shop to inspect the repairs to the frame. Instead he made me peel off the window tint on the front side windows and I need to throw some rear brake shoes on it and have it re-inspected.

Secondly, I don't have "paint" or whatever it is you want me to open up the picture with. I still run Windows 98 if that means anything to you?

I'm dropping the car off at a frame/alignment shop on Monday I'll post back the results whether I'm right or wrong. Fair enough?

 

[jcj53115]

I too dont mean to Muddy the waters as said above, however I do believe you jumped the gun here on the frame damage. Everything in those pics is 100% normal. I even took a few moments to go out and snap a couple pics of mine just as you did and well see for yourself

Looks almost exactly the same. Your frame hasnt been repaired. Thats just how the typical g-bady frame was assembled

 

[jstahl]

Scott - you can do whatever you want. We have all witnessed your ability to jump to conclusions and inability to control your emotions and language.

My reputation speaks for itself. For the past 17 years I have more than proven myself with many individuals currently on this board and many that have retired from the Buick community. I have bought and sold two cars and probably enogh parts to build at least two more. The pictures of the vehicle speak for themselves.

As you can see, individuals of which I have no relationship with seem to believe you have gone to the extreme.

I have had enough of your slanderous chatter and refuse to engage in this ridiculous charade any longer. If you are a true TR lover you will find the joy in this vehicle as well.

Jud Out.

 

[D's GN]

My frame looks exactly the same as the one posted...I guess mine is screwed too or maybe it was built on a Monday morning?

 

[turbo39151]

not taking sides. Don't know either party.

1. Frame is fine. This is a non-issue.

2. Car was advertised for sale with a NEW crate motor and an additional block, etc...

The sale was predicated on an expectation of a NEW engine. A NEW engine would be a material selling point that would be relied upon by the prospective buyer.

A fair and reasonable solution would be for the seller to reimburse "documented" repair expenses to render the car in the condition it was advertised in. I would recommend that the seller and buyer find a neutral 3rd party who is willing to mediate and review the proposed repairs so that everything will be fair and above board.

The other alternative is going to court.

 

[LILOLV6]

An update

I haven't heard back from the frame shop yet as I'm still at work but I did have a chance to go over the car really well on the weekend...and here's what I found.

The hotwire kit is NOT a Racetronix unit as Jud said. It looks more like a Kirban piece. Racetronix didn't use blue relays. Funny how Jud sent me the receipt for the Racetronix unit...but didn't have a Racetronix kit on the car. Now I have to pull the tank to verify that there is even an upgraded pump in there!

I have taken pics of the half dozen large dents in the rear of the headliner that curiously didn't show in the headliner pics supplied by Jud and was followed up by his statement, "nothing wrong with the headliner". I didn't really even notice them until now as I was more concerned with other things.

i ALSO TOOK PICS OF THE TEARS IN THE DRIVERS SIDE SEAT THAT CURIOUSLY NEVER SHOWED IN THE INTERIOR PICS AND ALSO WEREN'T EVER MENTIONED WHEN THE INTERIOR WAS GIVEN A 9.5 OUT OF TEN RATING BY jUD.

The vapour can was thrown on it's side in Jud's haste to pull the cold air intake off the car and make everything fit so the hood would close.



Probably the biggest problem I found...and very possibly the reason the motor went? was that the MAP sensor vacuum/boost line was disconnected! Apparently Jud was in such a hurry to pull all his stuff off the car and unload it on someone that he never bothered to hook up the boost line to the MAP. I'm no expert on Directscan...so, Is this where he would have hooked up his boost line for Directscan? There's not even a tee in the line for the boost gauge. It just goes straight from the vacuum block to the boost gauge and the connection for the MAP is just hanging there with nothing connected to it. Obviously the MAP wasn't getting any boost to it with the line not connected and no signs of any connection ever there.


I'm sure Jud won't be man enough to admit that he forgot to hook up the boost line to the MAP when he pulled all his Directscan gear off the car...but it sure sucks for me that he half ass threw the car back together after raping it of parts to sell it.

I'll posts some pics when I'm off work...not that it'll help at all, as I'm 100% sure that Jud will deny any involvement in anything and claim I did all these things.

How bout it, Jud? You going to admit any of this was, how shall we say it, less than professional on your part?

Care to explain why the MAP wasn't hooked up and there isn't any sign of it ever being hooked up, except maybe directly to your Directscan?