A simple rear main seal job turned into this?

[87geeinn]

Oh what fun. This all started with my turbo taking a dump on me a few weeks ago. New turbo here, new TA stainless headers here just waiting to be slapped on (stockers cracked bad and didn't feel like fixing them, so just went with new ones). I figured I'd go ahead and replace my rear main while I was in the swing of things. I pulled the pan and there appears to be some antifreeze mixed in with the remainder of the oil that didn't drain out, along with some metal shavings (not a whole lot, but some fairly nice sized shavings). Sonafab**tch I say. Looks like I popped a head gasket too? WTF?! I went ahead and proceeded with popping the rear cap off and here's the best part: My rear bearing looks like poo to me. The crank looks okay, I think. What do you think? Should I just replace the cap, button it back up and proceed with a compression test? Not sure where to go from here.

BTW, first time oil pan has ever been off. Stock long block except valve springs.

 

[JDSfastGN]

replace the bearing and throw it back together. I've seen a lot worse if that makes ya feel better haha. Looks like a little debris went through it. You might want to check the rest as well just to be safe. If you really believe its a headgasket issue then it might be time to just pull the motor and rebearing and change the gaskets on an engine stand.

 

[87geeinn]

Also, I should add exactly what led up to all of this: About two weeks ago I noticed that the engine stumbled a few times at idle and that the oil pressure was 2-3 pounds lower than usual. I decided drive back home fearing the worst. The car drove okay. I gave it a little boost while watching the oil pressure gauge. Oil psi rose with RPMs as usual and car didn't act funny at all. Did another small run and as boost came up, I heard the tell-tale screeeeech of the turbo going out followed by a cloud of blue smoke out the tailpipes (at least it wasn't white smoke). I limped the car about 1/4 mile back to the house, pulled the turbo off and noticed that the compressor blades were grinding into the housing and when spinning the turbine wheel on the exhaust side, I could feel it binding up and contacting somewhere internally. I figured a major turbo surge problem was killing the turbo anyway because as of late, I noticed the exhaust housing was leaking all around the area where it mates to the compressor housing.

I just find it hard to believe--except for the evidence before my eyes--that I blew a headgasket AND a turbo all at the same time. I mean, I do have coolant in the oil pan and the radiator lost some fluid (down about 2 inches when looking down into the rad.

 

[d0n_3d]

if you had a headgasket go.......that's probably why your turbo went bad too because the headgasket material probably got in the oil, thus going through your turbo

if you got the cash I think its time for a rebuild! I always used to love finding things wrong with my stock motor, giving me excuses to rebuild it.....until I split the block, then I didn't like things going wrong with it anymore...too costly

 

[87geeinn]

I definitely do not have the $ for a rebuild. Pulling the heads off wouldn't be all that difficult as it is now, so I'm thinking I should just tear it down some more and have a look? It seems easier to tear it down just a little more than button everything back up just to do a compression test and then potentially have to break everything back down again. My main concern is the condition of the bearing(s) though. Is it as simple as replacing the bearings and bolting the mains back up? Thoughts?

 

[gnxtc2]

and noticed that the compressor blades were grinding into the housing and when spinning the turbine wheel on the exhaust side, I could feel it binding up and contacting somewhere internally.

And where do you think the metal shavings went? Into the IC, intake tract then into the motor.

Yep, I've seen worse bearings but couple the bearing with your coolant loss, I would rebuild the motor.

Also, antifreeze's favorite food is bearings.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[JDSfastGN]

I definitely do not have the $ for a rebuild. Pulling the heads off wouldn't be all that difficult as it is now, so I'm thinking I should just tear it down some more and have a look? It seems easier to tear it down just a little more than button everything back up just to do a compression test and then potentially have to break everything back down again. My main concern is the condition of the bearing(s) though. Is it as simple as replacing the bearings and bolting the mains back up? Thoughts?

the crank looks to be in good shape, so imo yes its that simple. New bearings and you might want to pull a couple of rod caps off just to see if they are damaged. It may not be the "right" way to do it, but it should work. Just clean it up and put it back together. It will at the very least buy time until you can rebuild it down the line.

 

[87geeinn]

Yeah, even in Florida it's been getting into the 20's at night and I was just about to switch back over to my summer blend of distilled water and water pump lube. :frown:

 

[87geeinn]

Since a rebuild is out of the question at this point in time, how do I go about replacing just the lower main bearings. Do I just buy a complete set and install only the lowers? Part # and how to install tips please? Do they just tap in?

 

[gnxtc2]

You can replace all the top halves while still in the car, just a PIA.

After you finish putting the oil pan on, prime the motor.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[87geeinn]

How do you install these bearings?

 

[d0n_3d]

Don't quote me on this........but I thought when you replaced main bearings, you have to have them machined to fit properly on the caps because they are not 100% perfect from the manufacturer? You are just asking for problems if you take short cuts! Ask me how I know this! A "stock" rebuild wouldn't cost very much. Just have the shortblock rebuilt with all the stock components like crank, rods, pistons, caps, etc. They would bake and re-surface the block, clean it, sonic check it, etc. Do the same thing with the heads. Install all new bearings and have everything honed, align bored, etc. New piston rings installed and seated, blah blah blah. Might cost under $1000 and you would have a like new engine again. Hey, that beats spending $10k on stroker high performance build motor like I just did! What the hell was I thinking! Oh yeah I forgot, I have that disease where I have to keep going faster...has anyone found a cure for this yet?

 

[87geeinn]

I thought when you replaced main bearings, you have to have them machined to fit properly on the caps because they are not 100% perfect from the manufacturer?

I think you are correct. I think I will just button up the bottom end, tear the heads and intake off and see what lurks beneath. Hopefully, I can get everything back together and make it last another year or so before the motor needs to come out. I'm simply broke right now. I'm also doing this with the car in my back yard, no garage, and no workbench (kitchen counter serving double-duty).

This should prove to be an interesting thread to one who likes pics and LOTS of questions.

 

[V6gofast]

OK I must be seeing things because I see blueing on the journal , where do
you suppose that came from? That isn't from dirt,the high wear on the edge
of the bearing indicates that the crank is flexing hard enough to take away
all the oil clearance. What do the rest of the bearings look like? Something
worth doing is worth doing right.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Yep!

And where do you think the metal shavings went? Into the IC, intake tract then into the motor.

Yep, I've seen worse bearings but couple the bearing with your coolant loss, I would rebuild the motor.

Also, antifreeze's favorite food is bearings.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

+1..
Being that brg looks like crap, the rest will, too.[Or worse]
BTW, that crank does NOT look "good"...
The sequence of "destruction":
A.You hit it w/ big boost.
B.Detonation gets the head gaskets.
C.Antifreeze gets the brgs, including the turbo brg.
D. It may well have taken out the cam/lifters, too.
Cut the filter apart... Part of your engine will likely be there.
As Billy says: Time to rebuild.

 

[JDSfastGN]

+1..
Being that brg looks like crap, the rest will, too.[Or worse]
BTW, that crank does NOT look "good"...
The sequence of "destruction":
A.You hit it w/ big boost.
B.Detonation gets the head gaskets.
C.Antifreeze gets the brgs, including the turbo brg.
D. It may well have taken out the cam/lifters, too.
Cut the filter apart... Part of your engine will likely be there.
As Billy says: Time to rebuild.

He stated he can't afford a rebuild, if he knows the risk there is nothing wrong with flushing the motor, slapping new mains on that are the right size and putting it back together. I have seen cranks look a lot worse, and until I run my fingers across it and see it in person I can't say that one looks "bad" either, the flash from a camera can do funny tricks. If the cam took a hit through the whole ordeal then that changes things and it needs to be at least looked at. The trash doesn't just sit in the motor and wait for more carnage if you flush it correctly with diesel. I have seen way too many people flush the motor slap new bearings on after wiping a cam and be fine for a long time. I'm not saying it is the right way to do this as yes a rebuild would be the right way to go. If I were in that position I would at least pull the motor so that everything can be inspected easily. A new flat tappet cam and lifters while its out is only 200 and if the motor is out its not a big deal. Something worth doing is worth doing right, but sometimes a budget just may not allow it. Good luck with the car 87geeinn

 

[87geeinn]

I appreciate all of the replies and have considered them fully. Yes, the flash from the camera makes things look pretty bad IMO. Unfortunately, my budget is my limiting factor at the moment. My goal is to make the motor last another year. I spoke with my engine guy and I will be checking the rest of the bearings, etc. I will post pictures as I progress along. Thanks guys.

 

[84TXGN]

I appreciate all of the replies and have considered them fully. Yes, the flash from the camera makes things look pretty bad IMO. Unfortunately, my budget is my limiting factor at the moment. My goal is to make the motor last another year. I spoke with my engine guy and I will be checking the rest of the bearings, etc. I will post pictures as I progress along. Thanks guys.

If all you need is another year out of it then rebearing it and replace the head gaskets. It isn't the best but it will run fine for a year as long as you don't rag on it too hard.

Also, consider a filter pre-turbo to keep trash out of it.

 

[87geeinn]

3rd main bearing and cam shots

I replaced the lower #4 main bearing, pulled the #3. Here's some pics. I also did a pressure test on the coolant system and it held steady at 16psi and wasn't leaking anywhere...not down the cylinder walls, nothing.

What's with the orangish/tan looking stuff on the casting between the cam lobes?

Oil filler neck looks fine with no residue either. I'm wondering if I'm being paranoid now.

 

[Bent6]

I've seen worse bearings but I have to agree with some of the others that it needs a rebuild. Since you can't afford that you should at least replace ALL of the main and rod bearings - yes it's a PITA to do with the engine in the car. Understand, if you run it for another year it may end up costing you a crank or even worse if your detonating the crap out of it. You need to get all of that anitfreeze residue flushed out of the engine before all of your bearings end up toast and be sure to go through everything that could be contaminated from your turbo failure and rear main seal - ie oil pump, pickup, turbo feed line, oil cooler, intercooler, etc. See where this is going? Better safe than sorry.:redface: