Steve:
Liquids are cool set ups and can do some crazy stuff. My Buddy Roger was seeing some insanely low mats at the end of 150+ mph runs in his metro. If I remember correctly his Mats where in the low 40 degree range at the end of the track over in Indy in june. He has alot less money in this set up than what a decent custom air to air would have cost him and it wouldn't have worked anything like his liquid. Roger went the liquid route because I got him curious about them with the set up I had in my TTA and the fact that he didnt have much room in the metro. Liquids really shine when you're looking for two things:
Hardcore intercooling and something that fits in a small place.
When you need someting that fits those two descriptions a liquid is the only way to go. You don't seam to be stuck in that catagory, but you seam interested in the liquids. I have run stock, stretches, front mounts, and liquids. I have opinoins i've made on all of all of them and I have concluded that liquids are my favorite. There are a few more hoops to jump through when setting them up and maintaining them but I think they are neat and I like the way they perform, to me this made the hoop jumping seam worth while.
A few statements can be made about liquids, they can be set up to:
1. work good on the street
2. work good at the track
3. work good at both
4. be reasonably priced, or cost a small fortune
Garret has new cores out that are rated very high. Thier BIG liquid core is rated for a "nominal" not a maximum but a nominal HP level of 1000hp! This core cost around $325 and is approx half the size of a stock air/air! I tried to talk Roger into using one of these cores to build his liquid but he found a different company that made cores and he got a core thats about half again bigger than the Garrett and I think his core was around $50 cheaper. I was worried it wouldn't be a good quality one and would possibly be a waste of money. After seeing his datalogs I would feel 100% confident buying one of these cores. This was not one of those Ebay liquids, I could get the company name for you and I believe they have a web site. I know nothing about the Ebay liquids other than they have real similar demensions to the one Spearco model. I would like to see if the Ebay unit uses a true liquid core. You can tell a true liquid core at a quick glance. Liquids have a tighter spacing; air to airs have like 1/2" hot air row and a 1/2" cool air row ect ect, liquids have a 1/2" hot air row and a 1/4" or less liquid row ect ect. So inside an end tank an air to air looks about 50% hot air flow path and 50% blocked off, where a liquid looks about 75% hot air flow path and 25% blocked off. I believe this is why a liquid has a very small pressure drop accross it for its size, infact liquids have very small pressure drops accoss them even when compared to big air to air units that look like they would out flow the liquid hands down.
Now if we go back and look at what Roger's motor is you will see that its in the range of what alot of TSM motors would be. Its a slightly bored 3.8 with a stock stroke crank, GN-1 heads, 220/220 roller, ported stock intake, and a GTQ 71 turbo. We went through some density ratio calculations and on his motor around 25# of boost shifting at 6500 there was approx 150 cfm more air going through the motor with a mat temp of 40 as compared to 110. As a rule of thumb this 150cfm should represent about 100hp. The part thats so cool about a liquid intercooler is that it will allow you to make more HP and be safer doing it. Thats the part every one seams to overlook. Low MATS really help eliminate detonation and this applies to all fuels wether its pump gas or race fuel. Safe horse power always catches my attention, at least enough to do a little research.
So do a little more research on them and see what you conclude. Just remember to keep in mind your exact plans with your car and don't worry too much about what other people are trying to do with thiers. Set your car up in such a way thats its interesting or neat to you. I like ball bearing turbos and liquid intercoolers, and people love to tell me I'm waisting my money. My opinion is that this is my hobby and I mess with the stuff that makes it interesting to me and thats the bottom line.
Good luck with your project, if you have any specific questions email me or pm me.
Jason
Liquids are cool set ups and can do some crazy stuff. My Buddy Roger was seeing some insanely low mats at the end of 150+ mph runs in his metro. If I remember correctly his Mats where in the low 40 degree range at the end of the track over in Indy in june. He has alot less money in this set up than what a decent custom air to air would have cost him and it wouldn't have worked anything like his liquid. Roger went the liquid route because I got him curious about them with the set up I had in my TTA and the fact that he didnt have much room in the metro. Liquids really shine when you're looking for two things:
Hardcore intercooling and something that fits in a small place.
When you need someting that fits those two descriptions a liquid is the only way to go. You don't seam to be stuck in that catagory, but you seam interested in the liquids. I have run stock, stretches, front mounts, and liquids. I have opinoins i've made on all of all of them and I have concluded that liquids are my favorite. There are a few more hoops to jump through when setting them up and maintaining them but I think they are neat and I like the way they perform, to me this made the hoop jumping seam worth while.
A few statements can be made about liquids, they can be set up to:
1. work good on the street
2. work good at the track
3. work good at both
4. be reasonably priced, or cost a small fortune
Garret has new cores out that are rated very high. Thier BIG liquid core is rated for a "nominal" not a maximum but a nominal HP level of 1000hp! This core cost around $325 and is approx half the size of a stock air/air! I tried to talk Roger into using one of these cores to build his liquid but he found a different company that made cores and he got a core thats about half again bigger than the Garrett and I think his core was around $50 cheaper. I was worried it wouldn't be a good quality one and would possibly be a waste of money. After seeing his datalogs I would feel 100% confident buying one of these cores. This was not one of those Ebay liquids, I could get the company name for you and I believe they have a web site. I know nothing about the Ebay liquids other than they have real similar demensions to the one Spearco model. I would like to see if the Ebay unit uses a true liquid core. You can tell a true liquid core at a quick glance. Liquids have a tighter spacing; air to airs have like 1/2" hot air row and a 1/2" cool air row ect ect, liquids have a 1/2" hot air row and a 1/4" or less liquid row ect ect. So inside an end tank an air to air looks about 50% hot air flow path and 50% blocked off, where a liquid looks about 75% hot air flow path and 25% blocked off. I believe this is why a liquid has a very small pressure drop accross it for its size, infact liquids have very small pressure drops accoss them even when compared to big air to air units that look like they would out flow the liquid hands down.
Now if we go back and look at what Roger's motor is you will see that its in the range of what alot of TSM motors would be. Its a slightly bored 3.8 with a stock stroke crank, GN-1 heads, 220/220 roller, ported stock intake, and a GTQ 71 turbo. We went through some density ratio calculations and on his motor around 25# of boost shifting at 6500 there was approx 150 cfm more air going through the motor with a mat temp of 40 as compared to 110. As a rule of thumb this 150cfm should represent about 100hp. The part thats so cool about a liquid intercooler is that it will allow you to make more HP and be safer doing it. Thats the part every one seams to overlook. Low MATS really help eliminate detonation and this applies to all fuels wether its pump gas or race fuel. Safe horse power always catches my attention, at least enough to do a little research.
So do a little more research on them and see what you conclude. Just remember to keep in mind your exact plans with your car and don't worry too much about what other people are trying to do with thiers. Set your car up in such a way thats its interesting or neat to you. I like ball bearing turbos and liquid intercoolers, and people love to tell me I'm waisting my money. My opinion is that this is my hobby and I mess with the stuff that makes it interesting to me and thats the bottom line.
Good luck with your project, if you have any specific questions email me or pm me.
Jason
