and then Floor pan removal options

[WE287GN]

well ready to start removing the floor pan..Not really quite sure on how to attack this..
My GN pretty much needs the entire pan ..
I washoping I could grab the entire pan at the factory seams, but the more I look at it, I think it could get quite hairy ....
some sugested cutting down the center and re welding, (not fond of this idea)
some said just cut out as far as you can got(maybe halfway up the front flloor board before the seam)
and just at the rear bench atop the rear pan..not really sure how to go about this..

At one point i thought i could slide the entire factory floor out front from under the body...Would this be crazy???
just looking for pointers, dont want to screw this up. kinda lucky to find a decent floor

thanks
sheetmetal newb

 

[WE287GN]

Just in case it matters

I need to swap over the console shifts mounts to the donor floor, unless I leave the hump..Not sure if this helps with deciding on how to do it?

 

[Chuck Leeper]

If they are that far gone, I'd look to see if there's a 1 pc pan available.. [Chevelle maybe??].
If you've never done this type work, I'd have someone w/ experience come look at it, first.
If the body has that much rust, I'll bet there's more you don't see.

 

[WE287GN]

Hi Chuck..
The car to be repaired is pretty much stripped..The quarters are coming off as well, so will be able to see the full rocker area as well..should be able to see enough at this point..I hope !!!
Pretty much have the complete pan from a donor car as well as the quarters and inner wheel wells if I need..
Sure its a crazy amount of work for a rotted car, but I am up to it more so for the learning process and the challenge..
More so trying to figure out to remove and reinstall the fllor in the GN..definately have a couple guys looking over my shoulder.Just trying to get some insight from the guys who have done the G bodys specificly. Might be some tricks out here..
Thanks

 

[TURBOV8R]

I think the floorpan was loaded/welded from the top.Always think how the car was assembled,and reverse the order of assembly.May want to keep the hump intact in the car as a reference point for measurements.Plus would probably be easier to install the panels in the car through the doors as a "half"side. Can you cut it at the top of the rear pan where the rear seat bottom rests or is it rotted back that far? Be aware if you have to go back that far,the fuel filter and lines are @ one to two inches under the pan where the factory seam is on the driver's side.I ALMOST found out the wrong way!

 

[WE287GN]

I will have to double check, but there is a reason I was thinking all the way back to the trunk..HArd to keep track, have 4 buicks in 3 diferent places..lol

I know my floors are rotted pretty bad over ther front body mounts, thats why I was thinking of somehow grabbing that entire section.
The rear may not be as critical..Will try to grab a pic..maybe by the weekend..

 

[wagon]

I did this in my GN. The floor was shot, and I had a complete floor from a Cutlass. Unless you have the rare convertible GN, you aren't going to get it in. You may be able to do it from the bottom, if you have the drivetrain out, but I can't say for sure. What I did was cut the floor in half. I welded in the front, then welded in the back. A bunch more welding, but wasn't that bad. If you can do the whole thing, that would be much quicker, if not, just cut it in two.

 

[WE287GN]

Pics arent that great

OK The pans themselves are not rotted under seat, but just to the side of the pass side, where the inner rocker meets the inner quarter there is some rot..so, I am saying if it isnt to weak, I guess I could cut out at the top of the rear pan..

 

[WE287GN]

I did this in my GN. The floor was shot, and I had a complete floor from a Cutlass. Unless you have the rare convertible GN, you aren't going to get it in. You may be able to do it from the bottom, if you have the drivetrain out, but I can't say for sure. What I did was cut the floor in half. I welded in the front, then welded in the back. A bunch more welding, but wasn't that bad. If you can do the whole thing, that would be much quicker, if not, just cut it in two.

Hey Brian , hows it going.
So seperated by front and back ..sounds like an idea..well I guess I dont have to go all the way back to the trunk so thats good..

 

[TURBOV8R]

Find out where the leaks came from....

 

[WE287GN]

Find out where the leaks came from....

hey TURBOV8R , the leaks I am assuming sarted at the t roofs...the car also sat for quite some time outside with the pass door removed..so this car was just sitting there waiting to be scrapped...
This is nothing, a few more inches fwd and you would have seen the grass in my yard.lol

 

[Morbid]

I'm doing my floors now and can lend some advice.

The factory pans where one piece from drivers side to passenger side. You would have one hell of a time getting the entire floor out of the car.

So I would just do each side. On the rocker side there are spot welds that need to be drilled out. Only cut up the tranny hump as far as you need to go to get rid of the rust. On the hump you will see where floor pan is indented for the seat belt anchor. I made a cut line about a 1" or 2" above that.

The front portion where the toe board is gets tricky. To get that seam up top out you need to be able to access the spot welds and drill them out. Easy if the engine and or powermaster is out. I cut the rust out and left the good sheet metal (which wasn't much).

On the outer edge of the toe board (where the foot rest is) there are actually two pieces of sheet metal. The Floor pan and some other plate that's part of the chassis. That other piece of metal holds the body mount.

You'll have to make a cut at the rear of the floor pan to separate it from the rear seat pan.

Measure 3 or 4 times and cut once. Start by identifying where the rust is and how much metal needs to be removed to get it all out (you can't weld rusty metal, just blow holes).

Once you have the rusty metal out lay your new pan in and start the fitting up.

Greg

 

[asto-t]

floors

I just replaced my drivers floor pan. I used a new left side floor pan and cut out a patch and butt welded it. I have a lincoln mig welder. I used .025 wire with mixed gass. I had great success with the smaller wire

 

[WE287GN]

Thanks for the response guys..Actually been looking at doing the floors first now that the donor car is pretty much all cut up..
I did decide to do pass/driver sides instead of entire floor.
I am very leary of going up to the rocker seam as it looks like we would be disturbing the body mount sheet metal that is spot welded to that area..
Are you talking about removing the spot welds from the inner rocker to the body braces? Or the factory spot welds at the floor to inner rocker?
We were thinking of leaving the inner rocker alone and trying to use the factory floor seam , and not the top corner of the inner rocker..(rim of the pan sorta)..
As for the rear , we were thinking to cut just in between the spot welds and the imaginary line across the rear seat bottom mounts..
I was thinking , this way I could rest the new floor on the front edge of the rear brace , but weld the old and new floor and plug back down to the original brace(or the front half of the brace rather)
And as far as the toe board we will have acces to the engine bay/factory seam, so we will try to use that as well.
asto-t
Thanks for the repsonse..right now I am still playing with a cheapy CH flux core mig..have .035" in it right now...Practicing on some thin scrap..have a ways to go yet..I wonder if I can change the dia with the current gun set up..??
I think I can , maybe should try the thinner wire..
Right now I am pretty much stuck on a fixed hi/lo output and only varibale wire feed..
A new vari output 110 lincoln is more than I can afford right now..maybe I will be able to pull it off..If not It will have to wait.. could always check on used I guess..

Morbid, asto-t . thanks again

 

[Morbid]

I'd loose the flux-core wire and go with gas (Co2/Argon mix) w/.023 or .030 wire. You can rent a bottle from your local supplier. Flux-core wire requires heat that will cause problems with warping thin (< 1/8" gauge sheet metal) not to mention blowing holes. Of course first you'll have to see if your Welder can do both.

Yup that's the area I'm talking about. Where the Plate is for the body mount up in the corner. You wanna leave that alone. There is also the lip for the lower pillar plate in that area as well.

When fitting the floorpan in you'll need to make sure that you can re-attach the bolts from the cross-brace to the plate that's on the bottom of the tunnel.

That brace and the Seat belt anchor are spot welded to the panel. If you don't have a source for others you'll need to drill the spot welds out, remove them, clean em up and re-weld them to you new pan first. If your existing floor isn't rotted up the tunnel you might get away with leaving them but with any pic's it's hard to say.

You don't need to mess with the Inner rocker. Once you get the seat braces out you'll see the spot welds on the rocker side. There are also braces coming off the Inner Rocker underneath. They sorta cradle the Floor Pan. Those have spot welds too.

Lastly one of the reasons there isn't a complete write up on replacing these pans (that I can find and boy have I looked) is that it's a PITA.
Chevys and other cars from this era the pans came in two or four pieces, splitting the toe and floor-board.

Greg

 

[notacarlo]

Contact disco stu on this board. he just did this to his car. He made it look easy.

 

[WE287GN]

about the welder

I was reading up a little, I can add the gas to it apparently..Also read that .024",.030", and .035" is what it will except for wire..
I didnt read anything about changing tips for diff wire sizes or for gas, unless it was ready for those right out of the box???
I have been practicing on some .033" strapping from work, but was told that it is hardened stuff, I have some mid steel pieces to play with now...,
Tried a few practice plug welds, not too good yet..
This is the welder I have to use for now.

4 output settings I guess, its a pdf of the manual, need to go over it again, and get the any accesories that came with it, (at mt Dads house)

http://www.cpocampbellhausfeld.com/static/manual/www.cpocampbellhausfeld.com-wg2040.pdf

 

[Morbid]

If you can find a local scrap metal place in your area you can get sheet metal for plenty cheap. One sheet 24" x 24" piece is plenty for practicing. They may have smaller but usually that's the smallest those big old shears they have can but.

I brought a 24" X 24" sheet of 18 gauge for less than a 12" x 12" sheet of 20 gauge costs at the Big Box stores.

Here's a good site for you to pick up on MIG welding.

If you don't have one I'd get a auto-darkening helmet as opposed to holding that cheap thing that comes with the kit. That way you have both hands to work with.

For the gas you want a 75% Argon 25 % Co2 mix. Usually you rent the cylinder (I pay $50.00 a year for a 40 CU bottle) and they charge you separate for filling it up.

Now you can buy your own Cylinder for the gas but not every Gas Supplier will fill bottles that aren't theirs, so you might want to call ahead.

I'm not a big fan of renting something when I can own it, but after talking to a friend who is a structural welder by trade he says they do that so as to not be liable should something happen if the cylinder is defective.

You biggest problem when starting out is going to be getting the settings right for the metal your working with. There are only two, wire speed and amps.

Once you get past that you can focusing on the other two biggies which are gun angle and travel speed.

 

[WE287GN]

If you can find a local scrap metal place in your area you can get sheet metal for plenty cheap. One sheet 24" x 24" piece is plenty for practicing. They may have smaller but usually that's the smallest those big old shears they have can but.

I brought a 24" X 24" sheet of 18 gauge for less than a 12" x 12" sheet of 20 gauge costs at the Big Box stores.

Here's a good site for you to pick up on MIG welding.

If you don't have one I'd get a auto-darkening helmet as opposed to holding that cheap thing that comes with the kit. That way you have both hands to work with.

For the gas you want a 75% Argon 25 % Co2 mix. Usually you rent the cylinder (I pay $50.00 a year for a 40 CU bottle) and they charge you separate for filling it up.

Now you can buy your own Cylinder for the gas but not every Gas Supplier will fill bottles that aren't theirs, so you might want to call ahead.

I'm not a big fan of renting something when I can own it, but after talking to a friend who is a structural welder by trade he says they do that so as to not be liable should something happen if the cylinder is defective.

You biggest problem when starting out is going to be getting the settings right for the metal your working with. There are only two, wire speed and amps.

Once you get past that you can focusing on the other two biggies which are gun angle and travel speed.

Thanks so much for the info Morbid..Very helpfull..
I keep being told that I am going to be limited and frustrated with this cheapy welder because of the fact that the heat or output controls are more fixed and not variable when it comes to sheet metal ..
I will check on the local welding shop sooon to see what that costs and look into it.
And I did grab an auto darkening helmet, so far it works well, has the adjustable darkness on it..

 

[Morbid]

Another site with some very useful information is over at Miller Welders.

I brought their Millermatic 140 w/autoset a couple years ago for my Regal project.

I'm not sure you'll be limited. You just need to learn the basics of setting up a welder and then how it applies to the one you got. Of all the Welding Processes MIG is easier than say TIG or Arc.

Read up and practice and you'll be fine and don't get discouraged. Owning a hammer or saw doesn't make someone a Carpenter and neither does owning a welder make someone a professional at that either. My welds suck but they are functional.

Greg