Any one here using a narrow band airfuel meter?

[boomcase]

Just like the title says, was curious if you like them and if they are worth doing. I have a 3barracing air meter from another car I bought awhile ago and was pondering if i should put it in the car.

Thanks

 

[TurboTR]

Well it seems it wasn't long ago that was all we had Better than nothing, but not much better. A wideband meter would tell you so much more.

TurboTR

 

[RegalT-type85]

I USE ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!! its fine for now, if you dont have the cash for a WB then use it(if you got one for free like me) if not saved your money get a WB universal 02 and a WB gauge,on the cheap DIY!!!!!!.they have O2 bungs,WB o2 sensors, make a kit. pretty much just need a welder(good one,get what you pay for) a o2 weld in sensor bung, WB o2 sensor, WB gauge. That should do it(i think)

 

[Blown&Injected]

If there is no one magic number that = best power then why need the super accurate gauge? NBO2 will let you know if you are lean or rich and from there one needs to bump it around anyway - do you care to know that on this day at X temp, timing, and humidity your AFR was 11.6:1? I say keep moving it around until your time slip says you are right

 

[DCVING 6]

Just like the title says, was curious if you like them and if they are worth doing. I have a 3barracing air meter from another car I bought awhile ago and was pondering if i should put it in the car.

Thanks

The factory setup is a narrow band, why would you want another one?

 

[boomcase]

thanks for the input Guys, I was looking at a wideband to purchase but remembered I had this narrow bad on the shelf. But think I will get the wide bad for better readings.

 

[DCVING 6]

thanks for the input Guys, I was looking at a wideband to purchase but remembered I had this narrow bad on the shelf. But think I will get the wide bad for better readings.

Check with Otto as he is in CT also, I'm sure he can get you one. He might even help you tune it on his dyno once installed.
Home Page

 

[supercrackerbox]

I had (have) a Cyberdyne on my Charger. A digital number is much easier to read on the fly than counting bars (especially if your car is a handful at WOT). It reads from .00 to 1.00 volts; I kept it in the .92-.95 range. Anything below .89 I had pinging issues. I also have an EGT gauge mounted right next to it. One advantage for me is it tended to let me know when my O2 sensor was dying, as the numbers didn't oscillate like they should.

I just purchased an Innovative wideband kit last week, can't wait to get it installed. Hopefully it was worth the $217 shipped I paid for it. Gonna take a while, as I'm completely redoing my gauge cluster and wiring in the car, shooting for something a bit cleaner.

 

[Blown&Injected]

thanks for the input Guys, I was looking at a wideband to purchase but remembered I had this narrow bad on the shelf. But think I will get the wide bad for better readings.

Screw the better readings. If you are going to go that route, the WBO2 setups have some good stuff to offer in the form of tuning and logging...like the MAF Translator type stuff Full Throttle Speed sells. They have setups that maintain AFR's and log data.

 

[turbodave231]

This is strictly my opinion...........The "narrow" band sensor is only accurate in a relatively small (and not very useful) 13.7:1 to 15.7.1 AFR. Once you get outside that "narrow" range the sensor is NOT predictable. Using a narrow band sensor to make WOT tuning decisions is crazy. Go buy a wbO2 and make informed decisions about your actual tune.

My reasoning: Your engine costs much much more to repair than the cost of a decent WBO2 setup.

Dave

 

[TurboTR]

And you're exactly right of course. The narrowband sensor does one thing only, and does it very well- it tells the ECU that the a/f ratio is either rich of stoich or lean of stoich. But not how far.

The factory ECU fuel control algorithm is speciall designed around that sensor type. All it knows from feedback is the the mix is either rich of stoich, or it's lean of stoich. It doesn't know "how much" though. Then it just seeks to continuously vary the mix rich/lean/rich/lean. The faster it varies rich lean/rich/lean, the less far the rich and lean excursions are, and the average is then closer and closer to just flatline stoich a/f ratio, which is (usually) the goal when it's in closed loop and looking at sensor feedback. That narrowband closed loop fueling algorithm type is generally called a "ramp and jumpback" algorithm. It works great for cruising around.

The factory ECU scheme can't generally control a/f ratio to a target a/f ratio away from stoich. Because it get's no a/f ratio feedback for one thing, other than "rich or lean of stoich (but not how far). And what a coiky-dink, we are usually more interested in best power a/f ratio, which is well rich of stoich. That's why "it's good enough for the factory ECU" doesn't really apply here. We're trying to do different things than the factory ECU is.

When you have a wideband sensor, now you can just use a linear type control scheme, because now you also know "how far" you are from your target a/f ratio. The two schemes are different.

TurboTR

 

[Blown&Injected]

If my NB is between .750 and .820 I am in a safe range and the car is running great. Above or below that and it is too rich or too lean. I mean if ya can't get it good - close to right, there are issues that the addition of a WB will not solve.

So with the thing running great and in that range I start bumping the fuel around, add maybe 10% and see if it picks up or slows down, just keep going in a direction and test the results. I really do not understand why knowing that my best power made is EXACTLY .777 volts on the WB and that is 11.6:1 AFR (BTW - I just made up the WB volts assuming it works about the same).

To me accuracy is relative. If I find an oil pressure gauge that is accurate to within 0.1 psi that is great and there is no doubt that oil pressure is mighty important but does it matter to know it to that level?

So lets say the WBO2 is installed, since every engine is a bit different and there is no magic number, then one still must get it close and then bump it around a bit to learn where it runs best = same thing as with a NBO2.

I believe the real value is in the logging and other abilities the WB systems offer.

 

[DCVING 6]

So with the thing running great and in that range I start bumping the fuel around, add maybe 10% and see if it picks up or slows down, just keep going in a direction and test the results. I really do not understand why knowing that my best power made is EXACTLY .777 volts on the WB and that is 11.6:1 AFR (BTW - I just made up the WB volts assuming it works about the same).

I think the problem is most people don't tune that way with a NB. They just read on here to shoot for say .780-.800 volts and your golden.

Problem is if you watch the WB when the NB shows .78 - .79 volts, the AFR actually has a wider range. I've seen times where the volts on the scanmaster read the same value, but the WB showed different AFR's.

 

[buttonfly]

I think the problem is most people don't tune that way with a NB. They just read on here to shoot for say .780-.800 volts and your golden.

Problem is if you watch the WB when the NB shows .78 - .79 volts, the AFR actually has a wider range. I've seen times where the volts on the scanmaster read the same value, but the WB showed different AFR's.

X2!

When compairing my my NB to my WB I have seen the NB show 690-710 while my WB shows a safe 10.8 afr. We didnt have this technology in the past so why not take advantage of it now. WB is real time. Not the slow response of the NB.