Anyone running 4l80E full manual?

[mikebart101]

Heard that this is a viable option to Th400 w/gear vendors OD. A 4l80E can be run with a full manual vlave body, thereby requiring no computer. Is anyone running this type of setup. I would like to hear some comments on such.

 

[jakeshoe]

I've built several of these. Have one ready to go in the shop now for a customer.

What do you want to know?

They work great if you want to go the non-electronics method, BUT the electronics are great also, tunable shifting without getting messy.

 

[mikebart101]

How durable is this type of setup?

What is involved in such a swap?

Any input is appreciated.

 

[jakeshoe]

IMO,
The 4L80E is unbeatable for durability as far as OD transmissions go.
It will fit in most chassis with minimal work as far as floorpan clearance. Most older musclecars have plenty of space.

The full manual kit doesn't affect the durability, it should improve it as far as slightly higher line pressures, accurate load sensing through the vacuum modulated pressure control, and dual feeding of the direct clutches.

One thing to be aware of on the 4L80E is that you will need an electronic speedo, conveter box, or special tailhousing for speedo function.

 

[49-blues]

are all the electronics compatable with the gn wiring?

 

[challengermike]

The only other downside would be they are very heavy.I know the stock converter weights 75 pounds,but i doubt anybody would be running a stock one.They are very strong transmissions.

 

[challengermike]

The 4L80e would need its own computer to control the shifting,Unless you go with a manual vb where you do all the shifting.Painless may make a controller for it to use in other cars.

 

[jakeshoe]

The only other downside would be they are very heavy.I know the stock converter weights 75 pounds

I like these types of statements...

How heavy are they?
How much heavier are they than a 200-4R?

Sans stock converter because I doubt anybody needs a 1600 rpm converter behind their GN V6...

Where do you get the 75 lb figure for the stock converter?

 

[bison]

I like these types of statements...

How heavy are they?
How much heavier are they than a 200-4R?

Where do you get the 75 lb figure for the stock converter?

I bet hes never even handled one :biggrin: .

 

[challengermike]

I work at a trans shop.We put one on a scale just to see and was right around 75lbs.That was the earier version converter,the later one is alittle less weight.Its heavy just to put the converter in the trans.You can tell there is a big difference just by picking up a 4L80e.Its a ball buster.I dont know what the weight difference is though between trannys.We put the trans on the jack and then put the converter in to save our backs.

 

[jakeshoe]

I build performance transmissions...

As a part of building transmissions for performance usage, weight (particularly rotating weight) is of interest to me so I have weighed all these parts and transmissions that are "SO HUGE" , "VERY HEAVY", and "CONSUME XX Horsepower".

I find it humorous how big the claims are and how people use internet claims to base their "facts" on.

My suggestion to you is to weigh a 4L80E and a 200-4R, do a TH350, TH400, and 700-R4 while you are at it and then report back with what you find.

However,
Get your scale checked first...

 

[ttypewhite]

I build performance transmissions...

As a part of building transmissions for performance usage, weight (particularly rotating weight) is of interest to me so I have weighed all these parts and transmissions that are "SO HUGE" , "VERY HEAVY", and "CONSUME XX Horsepower".

I find it humorous how big the claims are and how people use internet claims to base their "facts" on.

My suggestion to you is to weigh a 4L80E and a 200-4R, do a TH350, TH400, and 700-R4 while you are at it and then report back with what you find.

However,
Get your scale checked first...

I have been doing my research on this tranny (4L80E) and when I pull my car off the road just before winter, I will be selling my TH400 with tbrake for this unit. I need to know from you a few questions that I have

1) how much heavier is this tranny over my TH400?
2) what mods needs to be done in a GN to accomidate this tranny (cross member etc etc?
3) please pm me a price with convertor and what ever else is needed to make this trannsition as painless as possible (I want a price with transbrake, full reverse manual valve body, no electronix for a full weight GN making over 800 to the ground).

I am as serious as a heart attack with this purchase. Its basically down to you and CK, and to be blunty honest, its all about the dollar bill. This sh it has to be snuck by the wifes radar because she got my balls in her purse.:redface:
4)

 

[jakeshoe]

It is ~40 lbs heavier than a TH400.
You'll have to fab a crossmember and shorten your driveshaft.

I recommend Edge or PTC for converters. I don't sell them, and if I did I would just be a middleman, I prefer you go straight to the company building it for you. Edge converters are $575 for the Street Edge in lockup, or more for the Pro-Edge.

Chris at CK is developing a RMVB with transbrake for these units. AFAIK he is the only one who has a RMVB setup.

I would be buying the VB from him to build one like you want.

My normal pricing runs around $2200 core included. However that is for a regular auto function VB with new electronics and modifications, or full manual forward pattern VB. It varies slightly by core needed.

 

[SSedan64]

Trans Comparison Specs

Here's a few Trans comparison specs. Weights etc..
Olds FAQ -- Transmissions

 

[challengermike]

It looks like the 200r4 weights 157 and the 4L80e weights 260.Id say its pretty funny to thiink it doesnt weight more.I wonder if those weights include the converter.

 

[jakeshoe]

It looks like the 200r4 weights 157 and the 4L80e weights 260.Id say its pretty funny to thiink it doesnt weight more.I wonder if those weights include the converter.

Going by the weights posted on some internet site...
I guess that makes it fact because someone posted a weight.

A 200-4R doesn't weight 157 lbs, and a 4L80E doesn't weigh 260 lbs...

Those weights must be with converter (which doesn't apply because an aftermarket converter is considerably lighter) a 4L80E doesn't weight 260 lbs with even a stock converter.

I prefer to deal in reality, not internet lore. Go weigh the transmissions yourself...

 

[challengermike]

So what do they weight in stock form with converter?I do know that the stock converter in the 4l80e does weight 75lbs because we weighed it on a very acurate scale.

 

[jakeshoe]

A stock 4L80E weighs 178 lbs in 2wd configuration somewhat wet. Basically a core not completely drained.

A stock 4L80-E 13" lockup type converter FULL of fluid weighs 63 lbs.

I guess since a stock converter weighs 75 lbs on your "very accurate scale" then maybe given the margin of error, a combined unit would weigh 260 lbs.

Better recheck your scale...

 

[challengermike]

The one we weighed was the earlier version.I know the later version is lighter.Next to our shop is a fire saftey shop that fills fire extinguishers.We weighed it there.Everything we have weighed there seems to come up perfect in weight.I am pretty sure there scales have to be kept pretty acurate.Now the 178 you came up with is that with the converter?If it isnt then that would weigh 241 with converter.I dont know what the trans weight is i am going off what that website said it was.But i know there is a noticable difference when lifting the 2 trannys.

 

[jakeshoe]

63 lbs is full of fluid.

Not sure where you come up thinking an "earlier" 4L80E converter is heavier, this is a stock reman'd converter I use to "dyno" transmissions.

I would guess the converter weighs about 60 lbs dry and I have a hard time seeing where you are going to come up with 12-15 additional lbs in the same 13" package..

Keep in mind there are guys who frequent this forum who actually build torque converters. Maybe they can chime in with their weights.

However,
IMO who gives a F about what a stock torque converter weighs. An Edge converter for the 4L80E weighs in at 29-30 lbs dry. I doubt anybody here is going to go to the expense of installing a 4L80E and use a stock 13" torque converter.

The trans does weigh more, but not what I would consider "very heavy" when the stock 200-4R is around 140 lbs. I'll take the ~38 lbs in a 800 RWHP car for the peace of mind and less frequent need for freshening.


For what it's worth,
I'm not using expensive scales. Simply a bathroom scale, but it is repeatable to other much more expensive scales based on my own weight.

I "challenge" you to find anybody here who can verify your 75 lb 4L80E converter weight, dry or full of fluid...