Anyone running more than two M10 nozzles?

[Steve]

I currently have a dual nozzle progressive alky system with two M10 nozzles and it works great. My car runs 10's on 93 and alky with zero knock retard. I recently upgraded the turbo which of course means more air flow so I added fuel thru the TT chip to compensate. I was/am thinking that I might go to two M12 nozzles to make up for some of the fuel then add any remaining needed fuel thru the chip then once I get it tuned send the chip back to Eric and get the default fuel changed to value that the car liked. In its current condition more meth isn't needed but are there any downsides to running more? My tune is pretty conserative and there is plenty of boost left to go and I haven't added any timing so far so there is some performance left on the table so having more meth seems like a good idea so I wanted to see if anyone has tried it. Thanks

 

[callmeebryan]

I currently have a dual nozzle progressive alky system with two M10 nozzles and it works great. My car runs 10's on 93 and alky with zero knock retard. I recently upgraded the turbo which of course means more air flow so I added fuel thru the TT chip to compensate. I was/am thinking that I might go to two M12 nozzles to make up for some of the fuel then add any remaining needed fuel thru the chip then once I get it tuned send the chip back to Eric and get the default fuel changed to value that the car liked. In its current condition more meth isn't needed but are there any downsides to running more? My tune is pretty conserative and there is plenty of boost left to go and I haven't added any timing so far so there is some performance left on the table so having more meth seems like a good idea so I wanted to see if anyone has tried it. Thanks

There is no real downside to running tons of methanol that you have to worry about.... besides it corroding aluminum.... but how often do you ever hear that happen?

O2 sensors dont have a problem with any type of alcohol. The only real downside is that methanol requires just over 2x the amount of fuel than gasoline does (by volume) to burn stoich. But if you are going fast, that doesnt matter anyway since you have to use a lot of fuel regardless .

At any rate, you could get to the point of just running straight methanol. But methanol is more expensive than 93 octane gasoline, and im sure your car is a "street" car . I say go for it. The more the better... the more the faster... potentially

Ive seen methanol injection kits with supplemental injectors in some applications. Some people get really crazy.

 

[Razor]

Its not only nozzles but pressure. On the faster Buicks 25 GPH is the norm at 170 PSI pressure.

If you dont have the pressure, you crank up on the nozzle sizing. So you can run 4 10 nozzles at 60 PSI alky pressure or 2 10 nozzles at 120 PSI.. I havent done the math on flow so dont shoot the messenger.. just used as a hypothetical

Bottom line is figure how much alky you need.. then address it with pressure and nozzle sizing.

I have some apps over 30 GPH and 180 PSI. Typically these are 1k+ RWHP apps with Turbo V8's.

 

[Steve]

Thanks guy. Sounds like I am on the right track. I should have included that I am maxed out on pressure so to get more I will need to go up on nozzle size.

 

[Steve]

At any rate, you could get to the point of just running straight methanol. But methanol is more expensive than 93 octane gasoline, and im sure your car is a "street" car . I say go for it. The more the better... the more the faster... potentially

I don't want to run straight meth because my car is a street car and I like to drive too much. I drive it on the Power Tour every year and straight methanol would be expensive and hard to come by for a 1500+ mile cruise and that would kill the 22 mpg(with the A/C on of course) I get now! That's the beauty of the
meth injection. My car gets driven to work on nice days in the exact same trim that I run at the track. I was a little skeptical on alky injection at first but I do think it is one of the best things to happen to turbo Buicks. I have a similar combo to what Grumpy has and I have a long way to go to catch up to his and Melissa's performance!

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Hey Julio, isn't the standard pressure out of your pumps ( over the last 2 years ) been 150psi??

And do you think the pump would be safer ( life wise etc ) by pushing more volume ( less pressure/bigger nozzle ) then higher pressure/smaller nozzle??

 

[Razor]

Hey Julio, isn't the standard pressure out of your pumps ( over the last 2 years ) been 150psi??

And do you think the pump would be safer ( life wise etc ) by pushing more volume ( less pressure/bigger nozzle ) then higher pressure/smaller nozzle??

We pressure test every pump built after Dec '05 to 250 PSI on an M15 nozzle using water. This assures there are no leaks. Alcohol is 20% lighter than water, so the pumps on alky can make approx 200 PSI and depends on vehicle electrical as well. The older pumps pre Dec '05 made 10-15% less pressure.

As to pressure.. yes.. that is why the step up to twin nozzles to get the pressure down and still have volume. But you may only be running 100 PSI.. depends on boost, and where the controller knobs are set too. Just becuase the pump can make 200 PSI doesnt mean your running 200 PSI. And if your motor only needs 100 PSI to suppress knock.. then it doesnt matter the pump can make 200 PSI. Make sense Its all about creating headroom with the system. In case the waste gate sticks and your boost shoots up from 22 to 30.. you have a pump that goes from 100 PSI to 200 PSI. If you run 200 PSI at 22 PSI boost.. the kit is maxed out and if the boost climbed.. there would not be any additional volume available. So if its maxed out 200 PSI at 22 PSI boost, it needs another nozzle to bring pressure down.