Bearing and Ring install, help please :)

[FlaBoy]

As some may recall, I had a piston go south in my GN, and will be replacing it with a used stock piston/rod (THANKS Jerryl!!) after honing the cylinder bore in question.

I got the old piston pulled today, and luckily the old bearings look in pretty good shape. There is some wear, but no big hunks of metal imbedded, and no copper showing, so in my book that seems pretty good. Below is a picture of the rod journal on the crank so you can have an idea of what it looks like (bearing surface looks about the same).

My first question regards the bearings. I just bought a set of standard bearings, since I know my replacement rod is standard sized, and since the previous owner had replaced the crank (with reciepts to prove it) I assumed it would be standard sized as well. When I pulled the old bearing, it is marked "020' on both halves of the shell, so I assume this means the crank has been ground/turned down 0.020"? And this means I need to return my std. bearings for 0.020 oversize bearings? I'm pretty sure about this, but the few engines I've messed with all used std. size bearings so I want to make sure I dont screw it up.

My second question has to do with rings. I bought a set of Sealed Power WE434K rings. Do these come with the proper gap already, or do I need to test fit them and file them to proper gap? If so what gap do I use? Also, what is the best method for installing the rings on the piston? Is there a special tool I can rent from the parts store, or can you just twist them on by hand without deforming them? For the compression rings, I think I remember reading you install them with the 'dot' side up? The two compression rings have different sized gaps, and different colors painted on them near the end:

smaller gap - one end red, the other white
larger gap - one end yellow, the other no paint

Which is the upper ring, and which is the lower? When it comes to the oil control rings, there are no marking to denote top vs. bottom, and the two thin rings seem identical, does it matter which ring is on top of the corrugated part and which is under? Does it matter which sides face up? And lastly, the corrugated oil control ring came with what appears to be a small piece of clear plastic attached to the first corrugation near the split on each end , one painted green, the other maybe white. Do these need to be removed before installing. or do they go in as is? and again, does orientation of the corrugated ring matter (which side faces up)?

Heres a pic of the ring pack, in case none of that made sense:

I didn't even notice until looking at the picture, but it seems both the thin oil control rings have one of their ends painted yellow as well.

Sorry about the million questions regarding the ring install, but this is my first time putting in rings, and I obviously want to make sure I install them correctly. ANY help deciphering where each ring goes, what its orientation is (which side faces up) and how to install it onto the piston will be VERY helpful.

I assume once they're on the piston, getting it in the cylinder is a simple matter of using a ring compressor and sliding it all back in.

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[bot]

wiesco piston's web site has some generic ring instalation guides and tips
It will give you some idea

You new bearings should have the same markings as your old ones did (0.020)


Your rings:

(Marks on the rings should be facing up when in stalled on piston)

top ring will have a shiny face (compresson ring)
second ring will be all black (scraper ring)
third ring (set) will be one thin ring then , expander ring (colored ends just butt up) then the last thin ring

all ring end gaps should be checked in the cylinder and the ring end gaps when installed on the piston must be staggered from each other

I sure some others will give you some more pointers.

do you have a manual somtimes it will have some ring instalation guides in there

 

[bot]

some more info


I not sure how much you know, but make sure you do some more reading before you go ahead and do the install
anything put together wrong can damage the crank, rod, or cylinder.
so be carefull and pay attention to every detail ..

try to get a manual to help you out

BTW, did you mark the rod cap and rod and do you remember which way the rod was sitting on the crank

 

[FlaBoy]

I know a fair bit, been a gearhead my whole life (all 27 years of it) and done a lot of wrenching and reading, just never actually gotten my hands involved in putting together/taking apart a rotating assembly, so I'm a little short of hands-on knowledge in this area.

As far as keeping rod-to-cap and rod-to-crank orientation correct, the old rod/cap set were already marked (from a previous rebuild I assume), though it's a non-issue since I have a used stock rod/piston assembly from the same cylinder (#1) to replace it with. As long as I install the 'new' piston with the notches facing towards the front of the block, and keep the cap on the 'new' rod in the same orientation I should be ok, right?

As far as a manual goes, I don't have any sort of manual. I didn't think there were any factory service manuals for the hotairs, and if you meant an engine rebuild manual, I've only ever seen ones for SBCs, Fords, and Mopars. I've always heard that our engines are a little particular on clearances and such and so you shouldn't just go by the generic manuals. If you can reccomend any reading, please do, I'd love the extra knowledge.

 

[bot]

install just like the marks on your other pistons,

I didnt mean use the generic specs. out of any manual. I just ment read them, most are very similar on installing rings, pistons, rods, bearings...
chevy manual will be close on installation, but will have none of the specs your looking for. I'm sure someone on here will post the specs for you ..
they may be listed on one of the buick sites I thought

I'm sure if you search around here you will find more info

 

[FlaBoy]

Thanks for the help bot, that wiseco site was very helpful. I've been doing some searching on the site here and found some numbers for bearing clearances, but haven't had any luck as far as ring gap goes. I assume hotairs should run different ring gaps than the 86/87 cars (since I'm guessing operating temps are a little higher)?

again, thanks for the help!

If anyone else has any light to shed on the subject, I'm always eager to learn

 

[bot]

Thanks for the help bot, that wiseco site was very helpful. I've been doing some searching on the site here and found some numbers for bearing clearances, but haven't had any luck as far as ring gap goes. I assume hotairs should run different ring gaps than the 86/87 cars (since I'm guessing operating temps are a little higher)?

again, thanks for the help!

If anyone else has any light to shed on the subject, I'm always eager to learn

try gnttype.org for more info....

 

[boostmaster]

Rings

Hey dude if you looked at the box the rings came in they are marked or should have instructions showing the first ring, second ring and the orientation that they should be installed. they make a tool to install the rings on the pistons but I have never used one. I usually just walk them on very carefully. IMHO, it sounds to me like you should be letting someone else do this or your going to have a big cluster F**k on your hands when you get finished. The crank has already been turned down to .020 under which is really the max on a stock crank. Judging by your questions I just don't think you should go it alone at the risk of ruining an engine after you get it installed. Just a word of caution.

 

[FlaBoy]

The box the rings came in have no indications as to how they should be installed, that was the first thing I checked. As far as not being able to do it myself; I know I asked a million questions, because this is my first time messing with rings/bearings. Everyone here whos installed rings had a first time, right? Just because you've never done something before doesn;t mean you can't do it. I want to get it right, which is why I'm on here asking for any information you guys can give. Some of my questions are stuff I already know, but wanted to verify since as I said, this is my first time and I don't wanna take any chances.

 

[Dabigguy]

The first time I rebuilt an engine I had someone looking over my shoulder and had been an "assistant" on many engine builds.

One tip......do not "twist" the rings on. The compression rings are cranky and don't like to be twisted....they will snap!! If you have a parts store that has a ring installer, rent it....it is cheaper than a new set of rings.

 

[FlaBoy]

The first time I rebuilt an engine I had someone looking over my shoulder and had been an "assistant" on many engine builds.

I have hundreds of guys looking over my shoulder offering advice, all the members of turbobuick.com :biggrin: And they haven't failed me yet. My dad comes over occasionally to lend a hand and advice too. I just want to make sure I get this right the first time. Can't afford to do this a second time

 

[Dabigguy]

We are here for you! I ment they were right there beside me.

 

[FlaBoy]

Update

Well guys, I've made some progress on the car and was hoping I could rely on the experts here to double-check my work I know its a long post, but I'd really appreciate it if you take a look and make sure I didn't screw anything up. I'll tell you what I've done, and if you guys see anything that is wrong (bad clearances/gaps, improper techniques, steps that I've missed, things I completely forgot to do) PLEASE let me know so I can try and remedy it before the engine gets all sealed back up.

The first step was to hone the cylinder in question to prepare a good mating surface for the new rings. Since this is being done in the car, with only the one piston/rod removed, I spent about 10 hours masking off the entire rotating assembly with a layer of lint-free non-shedding machine wiping towels, which were then covered by a layer of visqeen (heavy duty plastic sheeting). everything was overlapped and doubled up... I wanted to reduce the odds of grit from honing getting into the engine as much as possible. Once the rest of the bottom end was wrapped up and sealed, for extra protection I made a sort of 'cup' for the bottom of the cylinder in question. I cut a circle of visqueen slightly larger than the bore, then from under the car I taped and sealed it around the bottom lip of the cylinder that protrudes into the crankcase, leaving one small gap at the 6 o'clock position (bottom edge) for lubricant and cleaning fluid to drain out. The visqueen flap where this gap is was tucked into a hose which drained into a catch-pan. After testing with a little motor oil and then wd-40, anything poured/sprayed into the cylinder ended up in the catch can, and I couldn't find one drop of anything that ended up anywhere inside the crankcase. Satisified I'd done all I could for cleanliness, I honed the cylinder using WD-40 as a lubricant (as suggested my neighbor). I went easy and made sure not to overdo it, just enough to get a nice looking 45* or so crosshatch. After honing I used a soft-bristled nylon brush with HOT soapy water to scrub the bore, then flushed with clean water, then wiped everything down with lacquer thinner until I had several of the white towels come out looking just as white and clean as when they went in. I used some more lint free towels to apply a coating of motor oil to the bore, then carefully removed my masking job. As I removed it, I checked to see if any of the WD-40/water/lacquer thinner had penetrated any of it, and it had not, so I think its all as clean as possible.

Next I checked my ring gaps (sealed power ring set we434k). First I called federal-mogul (owns sealed power) technical assistance to verify which ring was top and bottom (not that I don't trust you bot, but I wanted to verify just to be safe). I lubricated the bore and each ring liberally with motor oil, and placed each one into the cylinder. I used the 'new' (used stock) piston to square it in the bore, and pushed it to the bottom of the ring travel so I'd measure the tightest gap (since i'm sure my bore has some amount of taper). Gap was checked using feeler gauges. My initial numbers were:

top ring: 0.013"
2nd ring: 0.025"
oil rails: over 0.015", at which point I stopped measuring

After doing some research I determined that the 2nd ring was in the range I wanted, but that the top ring should be at least 0.020". All I've read said that the gap on the oil rails isn't critical, since they dont see much heat, and as long as they're over 0.010 or 0.015 it should be fine. Since I don't have a ring filer, I made one myself. I rigged up a jig to hold the ring in place and hold a superfine file square to one end of the ring. I filed from only one end of the ring, moving the file from the outside face towards the inside. After many test-fits, I got the top ring gap to be around 0.020 or 0.021" (the 20 feeler went right in with virtually no drag, and the 21 barely went in and had a lot of drag). Using a 40x single eye "pen microscope" I checked the end for damage to the outside face of the ring, and to check that the surface was still square, and everything seemed alright.

I used a ring expander to install the rings on the piston (dot side up for the 2 compression rings). I positioned the ring gaps around the cylinder circumference as follows (if 12 o'clock is the 'top' of the piston, towards the valley, and 6 o'clock is at the bottom)

oil expander ring: 12 o'clock
lower oil rail: 7:30-8:00
upper oil rail: 4:00-4:30
lower compression ring: 9:00
upper compression ring: 3:00

I then prepared to install the bearing on the rod. The bearing surface on the rod and cap were cleaned and de-greased thoroughly, and the two bearing shells were put in place. Oh, i used a thread cleaning tap to clean the rod bolt holes before any of this. I lightly wrapped the rod end with a towel to prevent damage to the cylinder wall, and after liberally coating the cylinder and piston with motor oil, had my father install the piston using a ring compressor while I was underneath guiding the rod to ensure it didnt damage the cylinder or crank rod journal.

I next checked the rod bearing clearance. Since I could not find my nice dial bore gauge (i think my brother still has it) and I got rid of my telescoping bore gauge when i bought the dial gauge, I had no way to directly measure the inside diameter of the rod/bearing end. Resorting to the next best thing, I bought some plastigage. I cut a piece off slightly shorter than the width of the bearing, and placed it in the middle of the rod cap, oriented along the axis of the crankshaft. I assembled the rod on the crank, and tightened to 40 ft.-lbs. (in steps, 20, then 30, then 40) after applying assembly lube to the bolt shoulder and threads. without rotating the crank, the cap was then removed. After checking the plastigage against the chart provided, I cleaned the residue off both cap and crank, and repeated the procedure to verify the numbers were good. This was repeated with the crank rotated through a few different positons, in an attempt to see if the rod journal was noticeably out of round. I then did the whole procedure again with the bearing and journal lubricated with assembly lube. I wasn;t sure if when using plastigage it should be done wet or dry, so I did both. Every time I tested with a dry bearing, the plastigage was slightly narrower (looser clearance) than the stripe show for 0.0015" but not quite as narrow as the one shown for 0.002", which seems just right for the recommended clearances i found. When I tested it with the assembly lube, as one would expect the clearances seemed a tad bit tighter: barely wider (tighter clearance) than the stripe shown for 0.0015", but certainly not as wide (tight) as the stripe shown for 0.001". Satisfied my clearances were in the right range, I cleaned the bearing and journal surfaces again, lubed it all liberally with assembly lube, and bolted it all back up (again, to 40 ft.-lbs. in increments).

Thank you for reading through such a long post. I know I went into a LOT of detail, but I wanted to make sure all my procedures and numbers were correct. If you notice ANYTHING i've done incorrectly, or anything I've forgotten altogether, PLEASE let me know. I don't wanna go through all this work and screw it up because I missed something. Are there any other clearances I need to check? Any information is appreciated. Again, thanks for reading!

 

[dr_frankenstein]

I think you will be just fine, you definitly have taken the time to insure the best odds possible!

I think what you did sounds fantastic!

A.j.

 

[bot]

I'll dip the pistons in container of oil to let the oil soak in.. it makes for more of a mess
you should be still fine, oil will work its way up there..

 

[Jerryl]

I think you will be just fine, you definitly have taken the time to insure the best odds possible!

I think what you did sounds fantastic!

A.j.

X2!
Looks like you did a D*** good job with all of it!
Did you locate the HG's?

Lube the cylinder wall with some transmission fluid to help the rings seal.

 

[FlaBoy]

Yeah, I tracked down a set of the stock-style steel shim head gaskets, so hopefully all my pushrod lengths/preload should stay in spec. The shop i'm getting to re-con my heads said they generally end up taking off 2-3 thousandths (0.002-0.003") from the deck to clean up the mating surface, so hopefully that shouldn't affect anything.

 

[Jerryl]

Yeah, I tracked down a set of the stock-style steel shim head gaskets, so hopefully all my pushrod lengths/preload should stay in spec. The shop i'm getting to re-con my heads said they generally end up taking off 2-3 thousandths (0.002-0.003") from the deck to clean up the mating surface, so hopefully that shouldn't affect anything.

Should not be a problem!
Keep up the good work my friend!

 

[joe_schindler]

Sorry to cram all of this in one spot; but I don’t think it distracts much:

As some may recall, I had a piston go south in my GN, and will be replacing it with a used stock piston/rod (THANKS Jerryl!!) after honing the cylinder bore in question.

I got the old piston pulled today, and luckily the old bearings look in pretty good shape. There is some wear, but no big hunks of metal imbedded, and no copper showing, so in my book that seems pretty good. Below is a picture of the rod journal on the crank so you can have an idea of what it looks like (bearing surface looks about the same).

My first question regards the bearings. I just bought a set of standard bearings, since I know my replacement rod is standard sized, and since the previous owner had replaced the crank (with reciepts to prove it) I assumed it would be standard sized as well. When I pulled the old bearing, it is marked "020' on both halves of the shell, so I assume this means the crank has been ground/turned down 0.020"? And this means I need to return my std. bearings for 0.020 oversize bearings? I'm pretty sure about this, but the few engines I've messed with all used std. size bearings so I want to make sure I dont screw it up.

1 Yes; you probably have 20-thousandths under bearings. I doubt your previous owner got a “new” crank; just one that was new to him. It doesn’t matter what bearings you use; just as long as they fit.

My second question has to do with rings. I bought a set of Sealed Power WE434K rings. Do these come with the proper gap already, or do I need to test fit them and file them to proper gap? If so what gap do I use? Also, what is the best method for installing the rings on the piston? Is there a special tool I can rent from the parts store, or can you just twist them on by hand without deforming them? For the compression rings, I think I remember reading you install them with the 'dot' side up? The two compression rings have different sized gaps, and different colors painted on them near the end:

smaller gap - one end red, the other white
larger gap - one end yellow, the other no paint

Which is the upper ring, and which is the lower? When it comes to the oil control rings, there are no marking to denote top vs. bottom, and the two thin rings seem identical, does it matter which ring is on top of the corrugated part and which is under? Does it matter which sides face up? And lastly, the corrugated oil control ring came with what appears to be a small piece of clear plastic attached to the first corrugation near the split on each end , one painted green, the other maybe white. Do these need to be removed before installing. or do they go in as is? and again, does orientation of the corrugated ring matter (which side faces up)?

Heres a pic of the ring pack, in case none of that made sense:

2 Why are you asking us? Sealed Power rings come with instructions. If yours didn’t; get a box that has instructions; or ask Sealed Power.

I didn't even notice until looking at the picture, but it seems both the thin oil control rings have one of their ends painted yellow as well.

Sorry about the million questions regarding the ring install, but this is my first time putting in rings, and I obviously want to make sure I install them correctly. ANY help deciphering where each ring goes, what its orientation is (which side faces up) and how to install it onto the piston will be VERY helpful.

I assume once they're on the piston, getting it in the cylinder is a simple matter of using a ring compressor and sliding it all back in.

Thanks for the help guys!

wiesco piston's web site has some generic ring instalation guides and tips
It will give you some idea

You new bearings should have the same markings as your old ones did (0.020)


Your rings:

(Marks on the rings should be facing up when in stalled on piston)

top ring will have a shiny face (compresson ring)
second ring will be all black (scraper ring)
third ring (set) will be one thin ring then , expander ring (colored ends just butt up) then the last thin ring

all ring end gaps should be checked in the cylinder and the ring end gaps when installed on the piston must be staggered from each other

I sure some others will give you some more pointers.

do you have a manual somtimes it will have some ring instalation guides in there

some more info


I not sure how much you know, but make sure you do some more reading before you go ahead and do the install
anything put together wrong can damage the crank, rod, or cylinder.
so be carefull and pay attention to every detail ..

try to get a manual to help you out

BTW, did you mark the rod cap and rod and do you remember which way the rod was sitting on the crank

Wiseco makes some fine stuff; but just like Sealed Power; they put in their own instructions that pertain to their own rings. Ring manufactures differ in how they mark their rings from run to run; there’s no reason to believe that Wiseco would know how Sealed Power is going to mark theirs.

I know a fair bit, been a gearhead my whole life (all 27 years of it) and done a lot of wrenching and reading, just never actually gotten my hands involved in putting together/taking apart a rotating assembly, so I'm a little short of hands-on knowledge in this area.

As far as keeping rod-to-cap and rod-to-crank orientation correct, the old rod/cap set were already marked (from a previous rebuild I assume), though it's a non-issue since I have a used stock rod/piston assembly from the same cylinder (#1) to replace it with. As long as I install the 'new' piston with the notches facing towards the front of the block, and keep the cap on the 'new' rod in the same orientation I should be ok, right?

Are you using a piston and rod from the odd (1, 3, 5) side of the donor engine? If you used an even side piston/rod; you need the rod turned around. I don’t know that you couldn’t just turn the piston/rod around so that the notch pointed to the back; but the piston may be offset some to avoid slap; and would then be upside down. That used to be a HP trick in the old days. The rods are offset because of the off-center design of the engine.

As far as a manual goes, I don't have any sort of manual. I didn't think there were any factory service manuals for the hotairs, and if you meant an engine rebuild manual, I've only ever seen ones for SBCs, Fords, and Mopars. I've always heard that our engines are a little particular on clearances and such and so you shouldn't just go by the generic manuals. If you can reccomend any reading, please do, I'd love the extra knowledge.

Hummm; 27 years of reading and wrenching; and you don’t have an engine building manual; or access at a library to one?

install just like the marks on your other pistons,

I didnt mean use the generic specs. out of any manual. I just ment read them, most are very similar on installing rings, pistons, rods, bearings...
chevy manual will be close on installation, but will have none of the specs your looking for. I'm sure someone on here will post the specs for you ..
they may be listed on one of the buick sites I thought

I'm sure if you search around here you will find more info

Thanks for the help bot, that wiseco site was very helpful. I've been doing some searching on the site here and found some numbers for bearing clearances, but haven't had any luck as far as ring gap goes. I assume hotairs should run different ring gaps than the 86/87 cars (since I'm guessing operating temps are a little higher)?

again, thanks for the help!

If anyone else has any light to shed on the subject, I'm always eager to learn

Hot air engines run hotter? I thought that was controlled by the limits of the cooling system and the thermostat. Learn something every day.

Hey dude if you looked at the box the rings came in they are marked or should have instructions showing the first ring, second ring and the orientation that they should be installed. they make a tool to install the rings on the pistons but I have never used one. I usually just walk them on very carefully. IMHO, it sounds to me like you should be letting someone else do this or your going to have a big cluster F**k on your hands when you get finished. The crank has already been turned down to .020 under which is really the max on a stock crank. Judging by your questions I just don't think you should go it alone at the risk of ruining an engine after you get it installed. Just a word of caution.

The box the rings came in have no indications as to how they should be installed, that was the first thing I checked. As far as not being able to do it myself; I know I asked a million questions, because this is my first time messing with rings/bearings. Everyone here whos installed rings had a first time, right? Just because you've never done something before doesn;t mean you can't do it. I want to get it right, which is why I'm on here asking for any information you guys can give. Some of my questions are stuff I already know, but wanted to verify since as I said, this is my first time and I don't wanna take any chances.

The first time I installed a set of rings I looked at the instructions. Just like I did on every set of rings I have ever installed. Not many of them were the same. A piece of advice; if a ring set comes without instructions; get one that does.

I have hundreds of guys looking over my shoulder offering advice, all the members of turbobuick.com :biggrin: And they haven't failed me yet. My dad comes over occasionally to lend a hand and advice too. I just want to make sure I get this right the first time. Can't afford to do this a second time

Well guys, I've made some progress on the car and was hoping I could rely on the experts here to double-check my work I know its a long post, but I'd really appreciate it if you take a look and make sure I didn't screw anything up. I'll tell you what I've done, and if you guys see anything that is wrong (bad clearances/gaps, improper techniques, steps that I've missed, things I completely forgot to do) PLEASE let me know so I can try and remedy it before the engine gets all sealed back up.

The first step was to hone the cylinder in question to prepare a good mating surface for the new rings. Since this is being done in the car, with only the one piston/rod removed, I spent about 10 hours masking off the entire rotating assembly with a layer of lint-free non-shedding machine wiping towels, which were then covered by a layer of visqeen (heavy duty plastic sheeting). everything was overlapped and doubled up... I wanted to reduce the odds of grit from honing getting into the engine as much as possible. Once the rest of the bottom end was wrapped up and sealed, for extra protection I made a sort of 'cup' for the bottom of the cylinder in question. I cut a circle of visqueen slightly larger than the bore, then from under the car I taped and sealed it around the bottom lip of the cylinder that protrudes into the crankcase, leaving one small gap at the 6 o'clock position (bottom edge) for lubricant and cleaning fluid to drain out. The visqueen flap where this gap is was tucked into a hose which drained into a catch-pan. After testing with a little motor oil and then wd-40, anything poured/sprayed into the cylinder ended up in the catch can, and I couldn't find one drop of anything that ended up anywhere inside the crankcase. Satisified I'd done all I could for cleanliness, I honed the cylinder using WD-40 as a lubricant (as suggested my neighbor). I went easy and made sure not to overdo it, just enough to get a nice looking 45* or so crosshatch. After honing I used a soft-bristled nylon brush with HOT soapy water to scrub the bore, then flushed with clean water, then wiped everything down with lacquer thinner until I had several of the white towels come out looking just as white and clean as when they went in. I used some more lint free towels to apply a coating of motor oil to the bore, then carefully removed my masking job. As I removed it, I checked to see if any of the WD-40/water/lacquer thinner had penetrated any of it, and it had not, so I think its all as clean as possible.

Did the instructions say to scratch the s**t out of the cylinder with a ball hone? What finish did the instructions say to get on the cylinder? Oh; right; you didn’t have instructions.

Did you ever ream the cylinder ridge?

Next I checked my ring gaps (sealed power ring set we434k). First I called federal-mogul (owns sealed power) technical assistance to verify which ring was top and bottom (not that I don't trust you bot, but I wanted to verify just to be safe). I lubricated the bore and each ring liberally with motor oil, and placed each one into the cylinder. I used the 'new' (used stock) piston to square it in the bore, and pushed it to the bottom of the ring travel so I'd measure the tightest gap (since i'm sure my bore has some amount of taper). Gap was checked using feeler gauges. My initial numbers were:

top ring: 0.013"
2nd ring: 0.025"
oil rails: over 0.015", at which point I stopped measuring

And; you checked those gaps at the top of the cylinder; or at the bottom?

After doing some research I determined that the 2nd ring was in the range I wanted, but that the top ring should be at least 0.020". All I've read said that the gap on the oil rails isn't critical, since they dont see much heat, and as long as they're over 0.010 or 0.015 it should be fine. Since I don't have a ring filer, I made one myself. I rigged up a jig to hold the ring in place and hold a superfine file square to one end of the ring. I filed from only one end of the ring, moving the file from the outside face towards the inside. After many test-fits, I got the top ring gap to be around 0.020 or 0.021" (the 20 feeler went right in with virtually no drag, and the 21 barely went in and had a lot of drag). Using a 40x single eye "pen microscope" I checked the end for damage to the outside face of the ring, and to check that the surface was still square, and everything seemed alright.

I used a ring expander to install the rings on the piston (dot side up for the 2 compression rings). I positioned the ring gaps around the cylinder circumference as follows (if 12 o'clock is the 'top' of the piston, towards the valley, and 6 o'clock is at the bottom)

oil expander ring: 12 o'clock
lower oil rail: 7:30-8:00
upper oil rail: 4:00-4:30
lower compression ring: 9:00
upper compression ring: 3:00

I love it when people tell me they indexed the rings like this. Just like Hot Rod Magazine tells you to. Why do you think they put a pin in 2-stroke pistons?

I then prepared to install the bearing on the rod. The bearing surface on the rod and cap were cleaned and de-greased thoroughly, and the two bearing shells were put in place. Oh, i used a thread cleaning tap to clean the rod bolt holes before any of this. I lightly wrapped the rod end with a towel to prevent damage to the cylinder wall, and after liberally coating the cylinder and piston with motor oil, had my father install the piston using a ring compressor while I was underneath guiding the rod to ensure it didnt damage the cylinder or crank rod journal.

I don’t think I would have messed up the rod with a tap. If the bolt won’t go in; you need to replace the rod. Is the rod indexed correctly for the bank it went into?

I next checked the rod bearing clearance. Since I could not find my nice dial bore gauge (i think my brother still has it) and I got rid of my telescoping bore gauge when i bought the dial gauge, I had no way to directly measure the inside diameter of the rod/bearing end. Resorting to the next best thing, I bought some plastigage. I cut a piece off slightly shorter than the width of the bearing, and placed it in the middle of the rod cap, oriented along the axis of the crankshaft. I assembled the rod on the crank, and tightened to 40 ft.-lbs. (in steps, 20, then 30, then 40) after applying assembly lube to the bolt shoulder and threads. without rotating the crank, the cap was then removed. After checking the plastigage against the chart provided, I cleaned the residue off both cap and crank, and repeated the procedure to verify the numbers were good. This was repeated with the crank rotated through a few different positons, in an attempt to see if the rod journal was noticeably out of round. I then did the whole procedure again with the bearing and journal lubricated with assembly lube. I wasn;t sure if when using plastigage it should be done wet or dry, so I did both. Every time I tested with a dry bearing, the plastigage was slightly narrower (looser clearance) than the stripe show for 0.0015" but not quite as narrow as the one shown for 0.002", which seems just right for the recommended clearances i found. When I tested it with the assembly lube, as one would expect the clearances seemed a tad bit tighter: barely wider (tighter clearance) than the stripe shown for 0.0015", but certainly not as wide (tight) as the stripe shown for 0.001". Satisfied my clearances were in the right range, I cleaned the bearing and journal surfaces again, lubed it all liberally with assembly lube, and bolted it all back up (again, to 40 ft.-lbs. in increments).

Wow; on the big side; but within spec.

Thank you for reading through such a long post. I know I went into a LOT of detail, but I wanted to make sure all my procedures and numbers were correct. If you notice ANYTHING i've done incorrectly, or anything I've forgotten altogether, PLEASE let me know. I don't wanna go through all this work and screw it up because I missed something. Are there any other clearances I need to check? Any information is appreciated. Again, thanks for reading!

FlaBoy; you may appreciate all of the help and knowledge; but it seems that you have simply polled the board; and taken what you want from the majority. It seems that you have only done what you wanted; then asked for others to bless what you have done.

Yes; we all had to start somewhere; but we also had to learn along the way.

 

[FlaBoy]

joe,

1- As I mentioned once or twice, the ring set came with no instructions/directions. The package was a plain white box with sealed power sticker featuring a barcode and part number, nothing else.

2- As I mentioned in the other thread you were posting in, the used piston/rod I got came from the same cylinder (#1) as the one that went south in my car. Just to verify I compared it to the old piston, and the offset on the rod/pin was the same

3- Haven't needed to rebuild an engine yet, so no, I haven't bought an engine rebuild manual. I borrowed 2 from my father (for big block mopars) just to get a feel for the general procedures, and hoped I could rely on peoples help on this board for the particulars

4- I said I guessed hotair engines might run a little hotter (by which i meant chamber temps, not coolant temps), which the more i think about it was probably incorrect, though again, its a guess. Piston ring growth due to thermal expansion is a product of the heat generated by combustion. While the charge air temps are almost certainly higher in a hotair due to lack of intercooling (which is what made me make my original guess), the more I think about it, that probably has an insignificant impact on peak chamber temps, which would be a function mostly of the particulars of the combustion (pressure, type/quantity of fuel, AFR, etc). So i think i was wrong in my initial guess

5- As far as not having any instructions, I covered that already. This is why I called Federal-Mogul's technical assistance line. The gentleman who helped me decoded which ring was which for me. Most everything I have heard/read here and other places said that i should 'hone'/'de-glaze'/'re-finish' a used bore before installing a new set of rings, but since you were so adamantly against it I asked the guy from fed-mog about this. He said that the rings would stand a much better chance of mating with the bore properly if it was refinished, and that if i had access to a cylinder hone that it would definitely be in my interest to do so. He cautioned against being over zealous with the hone and actually removing significant amounts of material, but that a light touch up would be a good idea. I also decided to check the course books from the Internal Combustion Engine Design courses I took. In Internal Combustion Engines, Third Edition by Stone, et al (ISBN 0-7680-0495-0) 1999 as published by SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) International I found this in the section covering piston rings:

"The bore finish is critical, since too smooth a finish would fail to hold any oil. Typically, a coarse silicon carbide hone is plunged in and out to produce two sets of opposite hand spiral markings. This is followed by a fine hone that removes all but the deepest scratch marks. The residual scratches hold the oil, while the smooth surface provides the bearing surface. In resurfacing a used cylinder bore in preparation for mating new rings, the finishing hone described in the final step is usually sufficient"

6- I did not ream the cylinder ridge. I was curious about this myself, and spent a lot of time researching the topic. the consensus of information I found said that using a ridge reamer was almost always a bad idea. When a ridge is actually present, it is typically combustion residue that will be removed by the honing process. If there is no significant carbon deposit, what most people think is a ridge is actually a slight circumferential depression in the bore caused by erosion from the hot ring dwelling and reversing direction at TDC. In this case using a reamer to remove material doesn't help and often exacerbates any problem. This combined with how easy it is to damage the bore by misuse of a ridge reamer makes it ill advised. This comes from no personal experience of mine, just the things I have read.

7- As to where I checked ring gap, as i stated in the sentence you quoted, I used the piston to square the ring in the bore and pushed the ring to the lower limit of ring travel (bottom of the cylinder) before measuring gap.

8- I know piston rings rotate pretty freely during operation, as stated elsewhere in my SAE I.C. Engines book (which is why used cylinders typically do not have vertical marks where the rings gaps were, as would happen if they were stationary). Still, almost everything i read about installing rings had some procedure for spacing them out around the circumference. The one I used was the most common one. I figured, if it is not neccesary to do, it wouldn't hurt to do it, and if it WAS neccesary, it would hurt it to NOT do it. I played it safe.

9- I didn't 'mess up the rod with a tap', the bolts threaded in smoothly and easily before I did anything. I didn't use an actual cutting tap, I used a Snap-On Thread Repair chaser (from kit RTD42). It's not for cutting threads, but for cleaning dirty threads and straightening damaged ones. I use them on almost any bolt/threaded holes where the torque values are critical, as they help get more accurate and consistent torque values.

10- As for my clearances, as you say they are within spec. Maybe not the best I could have hoped for, but since I couldn't find bearing sets that were 0.0005" or 0.001" off from 0.020" oversize (i could only find the one or half thousandths oversize bearings for customizing your clearance for STD sized bearings) I figured there wasn't much I could do anyways.

As I said in the other thread you were posting on, I know you are just trying to help me out by giving your opinion (or maybe not, but I try to give the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not just being a jerk). I honestly thank you for this; these forums work because people like you and the others are willing to share your experience and opinions. Having said that, if the vast majority of my research here and elsewhere tells me to do things a certain way, please do not take it personally if I follow that advice even when it contradicts yours. I know its easy to read shades of meaning that aren't really there into words on a computer, there's no inflection/context to tell exactly what someones intentions are, but your responses (especially this one) seem to be more than a little condescending and even insulting. If thats the case, then that really helps nothing. Again, I'll give the benefit of the doubt here and assume I am either reading into things too much, or that this is just your personality and the way you speak. So again thank you for your opinions and experience. I didn't dismiss it, I took it all into consideration before I went ahead and did anything. If I didn;t end up doing as you suggested its because in that case the rest of the information i discovered suggested doing otherwise.